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Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53)
The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world;
it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
Hi Georg,We are in agreement here. But it looks like
Wakeup isn't in agreement with us on this.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Georg,FIRST:
When God said the whole earth…i think He who made the earth and all that is in it … that when He said, “Trampled the whole earth”…He knew exactly what that meant!!..that is…the whole earth that God knew existed outside of Romes little patch of “known earth” being trampled … don't you?
SECOND:
The little horn is an individual.
But since you really really believe the opposite, lets just say you are correct, that the little horn instead means little hornS…which is, many popes…
OR:
Even if you back tracked and said that the little horn was really pope so and so…
Even then, for both explanations, we could never accept them…
FOR:
Scripture declares that the little horn persecutes the saints for only 3 1/2 years…(Daniel 7:25)
BUT:
The popeS persecuted the saints for many many many many many years.
Never in history has there been an individual pope who persecuted the saints for only 3 1/2 years, with said persecution ceasing at his death or removal or imprisonment etc.
AND:
Like the above, Even if the little horn was an individual historical pope, then exactly which pope persecuted the saints for only 3 1/2 years before:
(a) Christ returned?
(b) At his (pope) death/removal, 3 1/2 years into Christians being persecuted at his hands, the persecutions suddenly stopped?NOT FORGETTING:
There were no popes before Christ came the first time.
So it must needs be post Christ prophecy…See the problem?
They all conflict with scripture…UNLESS:
The little horn is indeed an individual…
WHO:
> In Daniel, speaks great words…
> Who, in revelation, speaks great words…> Who, in Daniel, rises to power with 10 kings…
> Who, in revelations, rises to power with 10 kings…> Who, in Daniel, the 10 give their kingdom to the little horn…
> Who, in revelation, the 10 give their kingdom to the two horned beast…> Who, in Daniel, persecutes the saints…
> Who, in revelation, persecutes the saints…> Who, in Daniel, tramples the world…
> Who, in revelation, tramples the world…> Who, in Daniel, rises up against the Prince of Princes…
> Who, in revelation, rises up against the Lord of Lords…> Who, in Daniel, is only stopped by the coming of Christ…
> Who, in revelation, is only stopped by the coming of Christ…> Who, in Daniel, is destroyed without hand (meaning destroyed by a non human hand)…
> Who, in revelation, is destroyed by Christ…> Which, after his destruction, in Daniel, the saints possess the kingdom…
> Which, after his destruction, in revelation, the saints possess the kingdom…> Coincidences?
Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
And Georg,The FIRST pope Constantine, stopped Christian persecution that was going on for 10+ years under the previous pagan emperors…
Where does this sit in your belief?
That persecution?And, also, does your belief demand Constantine never be considered a pope?
But he was a pope…the very first..the founder of Catholicism itself…the father of Catholicism…now that's a pope term if i ever heard one!!
How do you explain that?So again…
All this does is contradict scripture and leads us back to the only other possible explanation…
That it is a future event concerning an individual supported by 10 individual kings…spoken of in Daniel and revelation, of whom “both” individuals rise up doing exactly the same things supported by the exact same number of individual leaders….10.
Quote (Devolution @ April 03 2012,02:52) Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
And Georg,The FIRST pope Constantine, stopped Christian persecution that was going on for 10+ years under the previous pagan emperors…
Where does this sit in your belief?
That persecution?And, also, does your belief demand Constantine never be considered a pope?
But he was a pope…the very first..the founder of Catholicism itself…the father of Catholicism…now that's a pope term if i ever heard one!!
How do you explain that?So again…
All this does is contradict scripture and leads us back to the only other possible explanation…
That it is a future event concerning an individual supported by 10 individual kings…spoken of in Daniel and revelation, of whom “both” individuals rise up doing exactly the same things supported by the exact same number of individual leaders….10.
How can I argue with intelligence like that?Thank you for informing me that the emperor Constantine was a pope, the first pope no less; I did not know that.
I suppose you did not know that it was Justinian that decided, in 533 AD, that the BISHOP of Rome should be the only one to have the title “POPE”, and that he should be the HEAD of all the clergy.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Pastry.YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER WHAT THE WORD SAINTS MEANS.
First of all; The first persecutor of the saints was not the pope, but his name was saul (Paul) the tent maker.(so you are wrong here).
You can not consider every one that was killed by the catholic
church as saints: (so you are wrong here).Example: All the dead during the prostetants and catholic wars in ireland,are not ALL saints.All that died in the war against the prostestants(martin luther) are not all saints. (so you are wrong here)
The 50 million you mentioned killed by the pope,are not ALL saints.All the jews killed by the germans and catholics are not all saints.
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SAINTS IN THIS WORLD.
For Christ said: MANY ARE CALLED BUT A -FEW- CHOSEN.(so you are wrong here).The LITTLE HORN came up amongst the 10 HORNS,and uproots 3 HORNS. This happens during the last beast only.
This same beast will be cast into the lake of fire, at the 2nd coming.(so you are wrong here).Revelation 13: The HEAD WITH THE DEADLY WOUND,IS THE (8th)LAST HEAD. The 7th was WOUNDED and the 8th was HEALED.On this head are the 10 horns,and the little horn will come up soon after.and will only have POWER for 3 1/2 yrs.
The MARK of the beast has his NAME,and his NUMBER IN CLUDED. And this NUMBER can be counted.It adds up to 666.
The first beast before him is the wounded head(the 7th): then the 10 kings will revive this head,and became the 8th head. FROM THE WOUNDED 7TH HEAD, TO THE REVIVED 8TH HEAD, WITH THE 10 HORNS,AND THE LITTLE HORN.
(many popes does not make ONE little horn).
(so you are wrong here also).So georg?
Dont get your self deeper and deeper in that mud.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 03 2012,09:53) Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Pastry.YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER WHAT THE WORD SAINTS MEANS.
First of all; The first persecutor of the saints was not the pope, but his name was saul (Paul) the tent maker.(so you are wrong here).
You can not consider every one that was killed by the catholic
church as saints: (so you are wrong here).Example: All the dead during the prostetants and catholic wars in ireland,are not ALL saints.All that died in the war against the prostestants(martin luther) are not all saints. (so you are wrong here)
The 50 million you mentioned killed by the pope,are not ALL saints.All the jews killed by the germans and catholics are not all saints.
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SAINTS IN THIS WORLD.
For Christ said: MANY ARE CALLED BUT A -FEW- CHOSEN.(so you are wrong here).The LITTLE HORN came up amongst the 10 HORNS,and uproots 3 HORNS. This happens during the last beast only.
This same beast will be cast into the lake of fire, at the 2nd coming.(so you are wrong here).Revelation 13: The HEAD WITH THE DEADLY WOUND,IS THE (8th)LAST HEAD. The 7th was WOUNDED and the 8th was HEALED.On this head are the 10 horns,and the little horn will come up soon after.and will only have POWER for 3 1/2 yrs.
The MARK of the beast has his NAME,and his NUMBER IN CLUDED. And this NUMBER can be counted.It adds up to 666.
The first beast before him is the wounded head(the 7th): then the 10 kings will revive this head,and became the 8th head. FROM THE WOUNDED 7TH HEAD, TO THE REVIVED 8TH HEAD, WITH THE 10 HORNS,AND THE LITTLE HORN.
(many popes does not make ONE little horn).
(so you are wrong here also).So georg?
Dont get your self deeper and deeper in that mud.wakeup.
Do you know Ann Colter? she is a Fox News contributor.
She has written a book, “Arguing with idiots”, I recommend reading it.Georg
Quote (Pastry @ April 03 2012,20:43) Quote (Wakeup @ April 03 2012,09:53) Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Pastry.YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER WHAT THE WORD SAINTS MEANS.
First of all; The first persecutor of the saints was not the pope, but his name was saul (Paul) the tent maker.(so you are wrong here).
You can not consider every one that was killed by the catholic
church as saints: (so you are wrong here).Example: All the dead during the prostetants and catholic wars in ireland,are not ALL saints.All that died in the war against the prostestants(martin luther) are not all saints. (so you are wrong here)
The 50 million you mentioned killed by the pope,are not ALL saints.All the jews killed by the germans and catholics are not all saints.
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SAINTS IN THIS WORLD.
For Christ said: MANY ARE CALLED BUT A -FEW- CHOSEN.(so you are wrong here).The LITTLE HORN came up amongst the 10 HORNS,and uproots 3 HORNS. This happens during the last beast only.
This same beast will be cast into the lake of fire, at the 2nd coming.(so you are wrong here).Revelation 13: The HEAD WITH THE DEADLY WOUND,IS THE (8th)LAST HEAD. The 7th was WOUNDED and the 8th was HEALED.On this head are the 10 horns,and the little horn will come up soon after.and will only have POWER for 3 1/2 yrs.
The MARK of the beast has his NAME,and his NUMBER IN CLUDED. And this NUMBER can be counted.It adds up to 666.
The first beast before him is the wounded head(the 7th): then the 10 kings will revive this head,and became the 8th head. FROM THE WOUNDED 7TH HEAD, TO THE REVIVED 8TH HEAD, WITH THE 10 HORNS,AND THE LITTLE HORN.
(many popes does not make ONE little horn).
(so you are wrong here also).So georg?
Dont get your self deeper and deeper in that mud.wakeup.
Do you know Ann Colter? she is a Fox News contributor.
She has written a book, “Arguing with idiots”, I recommend reading it.Georg
Pastry.You have no defence; so just lash out.
This is your trade,you have no scriptures to defend your self.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 03 2012,21:17) Quote (Pastry @ April 03 2012,20:43) Quote (Wakeup @ April 03 2012,09:53) Quote (Pastry @ April 02 2012,16:53) journey Who persecuted the first Christians, saints, was it not Rome?
When the western leg of Rome fell; who persecuted the Christians, saints, then; was it not the Roman Catholic church, the pope?
Did Rome only have one emperor? did the Catholic church only have one pope?
The pope is the little horn, little because he had a small beginning, and the fact that he came up on the Roman beast shows he had his beginning during the Roman rule; but he did not rule until the emperor was taken out of the way, 565 AD.
Roman emperors were also “Pontifex Maximus”, chief religious rulers, and only after Justinian's death, 565 AD, did the pope of Rome take on that title.Does it not say, and the same horn (little horn) made war with the saints?
The pope's sure did, they are responsible for over 50 Mill. death.
After Napoleon humiliated the pope; he had him jailed 1809 – 1813, his power to rule was taken away. Although he is still very much in charge of the catholic church, until the very end.The fourth beast, or sixth head, was Rome; when it says, the whole earth, that does not mean the entire world; it means the part that Rome had conquered; over 40 some countries.
To understand the “MARK” of the beast, should you not first know “what beast”?
Beast is the term used to describe a government/kingdom.
The beast in question was Rome; and the “mark” of Rome was the “CROSS”.Look at this next scripture.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Have you ever noticed that it says “a mark”?
666 is not even a mark, it is the number of the name, or title, that identifies the man as the man of perdition, little horn.Georg
Pastry.YOU NEED TO RECONSIDER WHAT THE WORD SAINTS MEANS.
First of all; The first persecutor of the saints was not the pope, but his name was saul (Paul) the tent maker.(so you are wrong here).
You can not consider every one that was killed by the catholic
church as saints: (so you are wrong here).Example: All the dead during the prostetants and catholic wars in ireland,are not ALL saints.All that died in the war against the prostestants(martin luther) are not all saints. (so you are wrong here)
The 50 million you mentioned killed by the pope,are not ALL saints.All the jews killed by the germans and catholics are not all saints.
THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SAINTS IN THIS WORLD.
For Christ said: MANY ARE CALLED BUT A -FEW- CHOSEN.(so you are wrong here).The LITTLE HORN came up amongst the 10 HORNS,and uproots 3 HORNS. This happens during the last beast only.
This same beast will be cast into the lake of fire, at the 2nd coming.(so you are wrong here).Revelation 13: The HEAD WITH THE DEADLY WOUND,IS THE (8th)LAST HEAD. The 7th was WOUNDED and the 8th was HEALED.On this head are the 10 horns,and the little horn will come up soon after.and will only have POWER for 3 1/2 yrs.
The MARK of the beast has his NAME,and his NUMBER IN CLUDED. And this NUMBER can be counted.It adds up to 666.
The first beast before him is the wounded head(the 7th): then the 10 kings will revive this head,and became the 8th head. FROM THE WOUNDED 7TH HEAD, TO THE REVIVED 8TH HEAD, WITH THE 10 HORNS,AND THE LITTLE HORN.
(many popes does not make ONE little horn).
(so you are wrong here also).So georg?
Dont get your self deeper and deeper in that mud.wakeup.
Do you know Ann Colter? she is a Fox News contributor.
She has written a book, “Arguing with idiots”, I recommend reading it.Georg
Pastry.You have no defence; so just lash out.
This is your trade,you have no scriptures to defend your self.wakeup.
I know that you and journey are related; is devolution part of your family too?I show you a scripture, not that that will make any difference.
Rom 1:8 ¶ First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Just how much of the “whole world”, do you think, was Paul talking about?
You call it lashing out, I call it ridiculing.
You told me once, you don't need to know history; and yet you try to explain history; you also ignore scripture for the same reason.
AND YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO TAKE YOU SERIOUS?
I'm just having fun with you, because you obviously don't care what fools you make of your self's.
Georg
Pastry.
After all those wonderful words; where are your scriptures to defend your interpretation of the prophesies?
They will see you as being helpless in defending your self.Give us proof that the lion in daniel is babylon.
Since babylon was already there; Belshazzar was in power and ready to be taken by darius the mede.Please get your self out of the mire that you have put yourself into.
wakeup.
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