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Hi Hanoch,
You cannot know if there is a trinity.
That is because it is not written and thus cannot be taught.
Does it surprise you God was not alone but with His sons and the angels at the time of genesis?Jb38
God the Son as God Himself
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:5
He is the Word. He was God.
When it says, “… the Spirit that proceeds forth from the Father” in John 15:26, we understand that 1) God the Father has sent 2)His Spirit; that 3)God is a Father, which means He has a Son. The Son and the Father share the same Spirit: So Jesus said, “…I do nothing on My own initiative…” John 8:28 -just as the wheels of the cherubim follow them wheresoever they go for the cause that the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels (Ezekiel 1:20).
When Jesus was baptized, you had 1) the Son, Jesus, 2) the Spirit (in the form of the dove) and 3) the Father speaking out of Heaven.
Here we have mentioned the Father, His Son, and their Spirit as being distinguishable but inseparable.
Scientific Evidence
“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork.” Ps. 19:1
“”Therefore, you are without excuse, o man…” Rom 1:20In the study of subatomic particles, the quark structure eludes to this.
Scientists describe the singular “tri-partite” quark as being a “shared power” amidst itself, having “carrier particles”, called gluons, flying amidst them that are filled (like a pot is filled with water) with power/energy (like the vessels God has made to serve Him: angels, etc.,).
Two of the three major distinctive portions of quarks are “up-spun” – upwardly spinning – particles (the Father and Son are “up”, in the Heavens) and one is down-spun – downardly spinning – (the Holy Spirit is in the earth).
Red = up-spun Blue = down-spun.The nature of these particles are set to change when Jesus is seen in the heavens by every eye, because the two up-spun particles will descend, according to Daniel 7:9;13 (How precious! Even today, the Son “does nothing, unless he sees the Father do it”), and by their descent, atomic structures will be changed, with the result being:
1] “Then shall sudden pain seize them, as of a woman in travail,- and they shall not escape.” 1 Th 5:3
2] “4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail…when they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.” Enoch 62:4,5
3] “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matt 24:30
4] “As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him… as he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.” Psalm 109:17, 18
5] “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven” 2 Cor 5:2
This being clothed with our spiritual reality occurs at the moment Jesus is seen, also described as the time when the “…reaper will overtake the sower…” Amos 9:13.
In that, before we take any action, we already are in the midst of the consequence or reward for that action. This is being clothed with our spiritual homes; it is the same for sinners who will be clothed with a curse Is 66:24.This is in accordance with the bodily return of Jesus, the sword, who divides between cursed and blessed.
::Phew::
In short, I don't know if there is any “trinity”, but there is some evidence for some differing but unanimous dimensions of God. I hope you find this to be edifying, my brothers.
Quote (Hanoch @ July 18 2008,02:12) God the Son as God Himself “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:5
He is the Word. He was God.
When it says, “… the Spirit that proceeds forth from the Father” in John 15:26, we understand that 1) God the Father has sent 2)His Spirit; that 3)God is a Father, which means He has a Son. The Son and the Father share the same Spirit: So Jesus said, “…I do nothing on My own initiative…” John 8:28 -just as the wheels of the cherubim follow them wheresoever they go for the cause that the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels (Ezekiel 1:20).
When Jesus was baptized, you had 1) the Son, Jesus, 2) the Spirit (in the form of the dove) and 3) the Father speaking out of Heaven.
Here we have mentioned the Father, His Son, and their Spirit as being distinguishable but inseparable.
Scientific Evidence
“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork.” Ps. 19:1
“”Therefore, you are without excuse, o man…” Rom 1:20In the study of subatomic particles, the quark structure eludes to this.
Scientists describe the singular “tri-partite” quark as being a “shared power” amidst itself, having “carrier particles”, called gluons, flying amidst them that are filled (like a pot is filled with water) with power/energy (like the vessels God has made to serve Him: angels, etc.,).Two of the three major distinctive portions of quarks are “up-spun” – upwardly spinning – particles (the Father and Son are “up”, in the Heavens) and one is down-spun – downardly spinning – (the Holy Spirit is in the earth).
Red = up-spun Blue = down-spun.The nature of these particles are set to change when Jesus is seen in the heavens by every eye, because the two up-spun particles will descend, according to Daniel 7:9;13 (How precious! Even today, the Son “does nothing, unless he sees the Father do it”), and by their descent, atomic structures will be changed, with the result being:
1] “Then shall sudden pain seize them, as of a woman in travail,- and they shall not escape.” 1 Th 5:3
2] “4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail…when they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.” Enoch 62:4,5
3] “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matt 24:30
4] “As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him… as he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.” Psalm 109:17, 18
5] “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven” 2 Cor 5:2
This being clothed with our spiritual reality occurs at the moment Jesus is seen, also described as the time when the “…reaper will overtake the sower…” Amos 9:13.
In that, before we take any action, we already are in the midst of the consequence or reward for that action. This is being clothed with our spiritual homes; it is the same for sinners who will be clothed with a curse Is 66:24.This is in accordance with the bodily return of Jesus, the sword, who divides between cursed and blessed.
::Phew::
In short, I don't know if there is any “trinity”, but there is some evidence for some differing but unanimous dimensions of God. I hope you find this to be edifying, my brothers.
HanochWelcome! Good post!
There will always be men and woman that reject and depart from that which saved them and to follow after another Gospel or another Jesus that they had not recieved.
They went out from among us for they were not of us!
Blessings! WJ
Quote (Hanoch @ July 18 2008,02:12) God the Son as God Himself “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:5
He is the Word. He was God.
When it says, “… the Spirit that proceeds forth from the Father” in John 15:26, we understand that 1) God the Father has sent 2)His Spirit; that 3)God is a Father, which means He has a Son. The Son and the Father share the same Spirit: So Jesus said, “…I do nothing on My own initiative…” John 8:28 -just as the wheels of the cherubim follow them wheresoever they go for the cause that the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels (Ezekiel 1:20).
When Jesus was baptized, you had 1) the Son, Jesus, 2) the Spirit (in the form of the dove) and 3) the Father speaking out of Heaven.
Here we have mentioned the Father, His Son, and their Spirit as being distinguishable but inseparable.
Scientific Evidence
“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork.” Ps. 19:1
“”Therefore, you are without excuse, o man…” Rom 1:20In the study of subatomic particles, the quark structure eludes to this.
Scientists describe the singular “tri-partite” quark as being a “shared power” amidst itself, having “carrier particles”, called gluons, flying amidst them that are filled (like a pot is filled with water) with power/energy (like the vessels God has made to serve Him: angels, etc.,).Two of the three major distinctive portions of quarks are “up-spun” – upwardly spinning – particles (the Father and Son are “up”, in the Heavens) and one is down-spun – downardly spinning – (the Holy Spirit is in the earth).
Red = up-spun Blue = down-spun.The nature of these particles are set to change when Jesus is seen in the heavens by every eye, because the two up-spun particles will descend, according to Daniel 7:9;13 (How precious! Even today, the Son “does nothing, unless he sees the Father do it”), and by their descent, atomic structures will be changed, with the result being:
1] “Then shall sudden pain seize them, as of a woman in travail,- and they shall not escape.” 1 Th 5:3
2] “4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail…when they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.” Enoch 62:4,5
3] “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matt 24:30
4] “As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him… as he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.” Psalm 109:17, 18
5] “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven” 2 Cor 5:2
This being clothed with our spiritual reality occurs at the moment Jesus is seen, also described as the time when the “…reaper will overtake the sower…” Amos 9:13.
In that, before we take any action, we already are in the midst of the consequence or reward for that action. This is being clothed with our spiritual homes; it is the same for sinners who will be clothed with a curse Is 66:24.This is in accordance with the bodily return of Jesus, the sword, who divides between cursed and blessed.
::Phew::
In short, I don't know if there is any “trinity”, but there is some evidence for some differing but unanimous dimensions of God. I hope you find this to be edifying, my brothers.
We came out of the Catholic Church. We were there until 1994, when God let us see that the trinity doctrine about Maria where wrong. I taught all of our 4 children the trinity, unfortunately. There is nowhere in the Bible to prove the trinity, but I can prove that it is wrong. Even when Jesus is God( which by the way is a tittle) it does not make the trinity right. In Ephesians 4:4 it tells you that the Father is above all.
The trinity teaches 3in1 all equal in power. That is my verse that I like to use to prove it wrong. Jesus Himself said on many occasions that His Father is greater then He is. I do not want to use this tread for proving that the trinity is wrong, but I can put an article about how it came about. TheApostles never spoke of the trinity.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Hanoch @ July 18 2008,02:12) God the Son as God Himself “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:5
He is the Word. He was God.
When it says, “… the Spirit that proceeds forth from the Father” in John 15:26, we understand that 1) God the Father has sent 2)His Spirit; that 3)God is a Father, which means He has a Son. The Son and the Father share the same Spirit: So Jesus said, “…I do nothing on My own initiative…” John 8:28 -just as the wheels of the cherubim follow them wheresoever they go for the cause that the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels (Ezekiel 1:20).
When Jesus was baptized, you had 1) the Son, Jesus, 2) the Spirit (in the form of the dove) and 3) the Father speaking out of Heaven.
Here we have mentioned the Father, His Son, and their Spirit as being distinguishable but inseparable.
Scientific Evidence
“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork.” Ps. 19:1
“”Therefore, you are without excuse, o man…” Rom 1:20In the study of subatomic particles, the quark structure eludes to this.
Scientists describe the singular “tri-partite” quark as being a “shared power” amidst itself, having “carrier particles”, called gluons, flying amidst them that are filled (like a pot is filled with water) with power/energy (like the vessels God has made to serve Him: angels, etc.,).Two of the three major distinctive portions of quarks are “up-spun” – upwardly spinning – particles (the Father and Son are “up”, in the Heavens) and one is down-spun – downardly spinning – (the Holy Spirit is in the earth).
Red = up-spun Blue = down-spun.The nature of these particles are set to change when Jesus is seen in the heavens by every eye, because the two up-spun particles will descend, according to Daniel 7:9;13 (How precious! Even today, the Son “does nothing, unless he sees the Father do it”), and by their descent, atomic structures will be changed, with the result being:
1] “Then shall sudden pain seize them, as of a woman in travail,- and they shall not escape.” 1 Th 5:3
2] “4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail…when they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.” Enoch 62:4,5
3] “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matt 24:30
4] “As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him… as he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.” Psalm 109:17, 18
5] “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven” 2 Cor 5:2
This being clothed with our spiritual reality occurs at the moment Jesus is seen, also described as the time when the “…reaper will overtake the sower…” Amos 9:13.
In that, before we take any action, we already are in the midst of the consequence or reward for that action. This is being clothed with our spiritual homes; it is the same for sinners who will be clothed with a curse Is 66:24.This is in accordance with the bodily return of Jesus, the sword, who divides between cursed and blessed.
::Phew::
In short, I don't know if there is any “trinity”, but there is some evidence for some differing but unanimous dimensions of God. I hope you find this to be edifying, my brothers.
Hi Hanoch,
God the Son is a human addition.
It is written that Jesus is the Son of God-he told us.
It is written that the Father is his God and the God of the Jews.He is not also his own God so neither is he our God.
The rest is of the fanciful minds of men.1Cor8
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Sonship
Why did Jesus call God “Father” if He wasn't His Son?
“Who is the antichrist, except he who denies the Son…?”1] “He is not also his own God so neither is he our God.
The rest is of the fanciful minds of men.”
However, remember this interesting passage here about the “Prophet” who was to come, who was Jesus:
“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;” Deut. 18:15
So, we must understand Moses to understand the status of this Prophet – how was Moses and how will this “Prophet” be?
“And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” Ex 7:1
So, this is why the Pharisees asked John, “What then? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not ” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” John 1:21
So then, who was that Prophet, who was to be as God to us? Jesus!2] “God the Father is the God of the Jews”
“Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,” Romans 3:29But about disagreements, we cannot automatically kick people out in these days because they do not believe what we believe:
“knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth”;
we must not reject people, or have this little expulsion button we can press and get rid of anyone who disagrees with us: news flash! If I can't get along with you hear, how am I going to get along with you in heaven? We have to die to those petty things today. More important than this: God is love; and love pulls things together. Anyways, these days there are alot of errors in all of our doctrines, but as we approach Jesus, and one another, we will share with one another our gifts, and be perfected, just as we are doing here. You edify me; I edify you, like a body.But also remember that it is not people with perfect doctrine who are going to heaven but people who live lives of love who are going to heaven.
What on earth did the thief on the cross “know” to get to heaven? One thing: Jesus was the Messiah. He knew nothing of any New Testament theology or anything that we claim to “know” today, and yet he obtained the promise because he brought “…forth FRUIT meet with repentance.”About the Trinity
The word trinity isn't in the Bible; I'm just reflecting the Word: God is what He is; He cannot change: God is ONE. That is, His essence is one, but He is not literally one:
“I pray that they would be one, even as we are One”
If the church is one, being multitudes of people, and we are one AS GOD IS ONE, this means that God is of ONE SPIRIT; ONE MESSAGE: Love.Remember:
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word WAS GOD.” John 1:1
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14Here you have the Word that was God and He is the begotten of the Father.
So that He can say: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” John 17:5 because of this fact.
Yes, the Father was greater than Jesus, because Jesus “emptied Himself” of His glory Philippians 2:7, wherefore, He asks the Father to glorify Him once more.
Why do you say that the son being God, is an invention of man? Are you saying that you do not believe John is inspired Scripture? What, then, is the basis of your faith – and what God do you believe in? If your faith is in the God of Holy Scripture, then you must believe Jesus is His Son, and take authority in the name of Jesus over the spirit of antichrist who would dare to come against you, a son of the Omnipotent God:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22
“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” 1 John 4:3
Do you know any man of God that you approve of? Try and follow him, despite his imperfect doctrines (share your views with him) and let him lead you into victorious living! I share the same concerns that you do about not wanting to be brainwashed; however, I understand now that my heart must turn to the fathers, and their hearts must also turn to me. I must hear them, but they must hear me.
I truly believe that you are born of God if you believe in Jesus, and that the work He started in you, He is faithful to complete until the day of Christ Jesus! “The works of God – who can let them and who can stop them?”
Don't be afraid, God loves you for no human “reason”; you could not – nor is it demanded of you – to “do” something in order for God to love you; neither can you do anything for Him to stop loving you: the Father ran to the prodigal son – we sometimes think we want to please God and this and that, not really regarding the love that GOD has for US… think of the Father who not only accepts you, but runs towards you when He sees you because He misses you and He loves you!! You are his precious son! He loves you!
Hi H,
Scripture tells us God was in Christ.
2Cor5
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Surely you would not say he was also the God Who was IN HIM?
God may also be in us.
Eph3
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.If Jesus was also the God within him what does that suggest about us???
What is not written
should not be learned by any form of implication
and taught as if it came from the mouth of Jesus should it?Quote (Irene @ July 18 2008,06:14) Quote (Hanoch @ July 18 2008,02:12) God the Son as God Himself “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” John 17:5
He is the Word. He was God.
When it says, “… the Spirit that proceeds forth from the Father” in John 15:26, we understand that 1) God the Father has sent 2)His Spirit; that 3)God is a Father, which means He has a Son. The Son and the Father share the same Spirit: So Jesus said, “…I do nothing on My own initiative…” John 8:28 -just as the wheels of the cherubim follow them wheresoever they go for the cause that the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels (Ezekiel 1:20).
When Jesus was baptized, you had 1) the Son, Jesus, 2) the Spirit (in the form of the dove) and 3) the Father speaking out of Heaven.
Here we have mentioned the Father, His Son, and their Spirit as being distinguishable but inseparable.
Scientific Evidence
“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork.” Ps. 19:1
“”Therefore, you are without excuse, o man…” Rom 1:20In the study of subatomic particles, the quark structure eludes to this.
Scientists describe the singular “tri-partite” quark as being a “shared power” amidst itself, having “carrier particles”, called gluons, flying amidst them that are filled (like a pot is filled with water) with power/energy (like the vessels God has made to serve Him: angels, etc.,).Two of the three major distinctive portions of quarks are “up-spun” – upwardly spinning – particles (the Father and Son are “up”, in the Heavens) and one is down-spun – downardly spinning – (the Holy Spirit is in the earth).
Red = up-spun Blue = down-spun.The nature of these particles are set to change when Jesus is seen in the heavens by every eye, because the two up-spun particles will descend, according to Daniel 7:9;13 (How precious! Even today, the Son “does nothing, unless he sees the Father do it”), and by their descent, atomic structures will be changed, with the result being:
1] “Then shall sudden pain seize them, as of a woman in travail,- and they shall not escape.” 1 Th 5:3
2] “4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail…when they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.” Enoch 62:4,5
3] “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matt 24:30
4] “As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him… as he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.” Psalm 109:17, 18
5] “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven” 2 Cor 5:2
This being clothed with our spiritual reality occurs at the moment Jesus is seen, also described as the time when the “…reaper will overtake the sower…” Amos 9:13.
In that, before we take any action, we already are in the midst of the consequence or reward for that action. This is being clothed with our spiritual homes; it is the same for sinners who will be clothed with a curse Is 66:24.This is in accordance with the bodily return of Jesus, the sword, who divides between cursed and blessed.
::Phew::
In short, I don't know if there is any “trinity”, but there is some evidence for some differing but unanimous dimensions of God. I hope you find this to be edifying, my brothers.
We came out of the Catholic Church. We were there until 1994, when God let us see that the trinity doctrine about Maria where wrong. I taught all of our 4 children the trinity, unfortunately. There is nowhere in the Bible to prove the trinity, but I can prove that it is wrong. Even when Jesus is God( which by the way is a tittle) it those not make the trinity right. In Ephesians 4:4 it tells you that the Father is above all.
The trinity teaches 3in1 all equal in power. That is my verse that I like to use to prove it wrong. Jesus Himself said on many occasions that His Father is greater then He is. I do not wamt to use this tread for proving that the trinity is wrong, but I can put an article about how it came about. TheApostles never spoke of the trinity.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneAnd once again it proves nothing!
I have already shown you that the verse you speak of is speaking of authority and not nature.
The president of the US is greater than you and I but is no more a human than you and I!
Not hard to understand.
Sorry! You are only convinced in your own mind but have no proof?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 18 2008,08:31) Hi H,
Scripture tells us God was in Christ.
2Cor5
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Surely you would not say he was also the God Who was IN HIM?
God may also be in us.
Eph3
19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.If Jesus was also the God within him what does that suggest about us???
What is not written
should not be learned by any form of implication
and taught as if it came from the mouth of Jesus should it?
NHThat's a good argument for a Modalist but not for a Trinitarian.
WJHi Hanoch.
I could post some pictures of binary stars to say that there is a Binity. There are enough examples of 1, 2, 3, 4, etc to prove any number given your logic.
Just choose your number and then compile a great list on all things that have that number in common.
Hi Hanoch.
It started off as a Binity and the Holy Spirit as a 3rd so-called member was added in some years later. The Trinity doctrine developed over time. Even encyclopedias will tell you the same thing.
Take the Trinity Test and then be honest with yourself.
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinitytest.htmIf this sparks some interest, then you could also try the following writing:
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity.htmI told you I don't believe in any establishment of man.
The Bible doesn't mention a trinity; therefore, I do not believe in a trinity.
The Bible does, however, say “There are three that agree in heaven, and they are one.”
The Bible does talk about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – and that they are not one in the same, though they do agree:
1] The Son and the Father:
John 16:15 “All that belongs to the Father is Mine That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you….”;
Parable of Prodigal: “You are with me always, and all I have is yours…”
2] The Spirit
John: “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who goes out from the Father, He will testify about Me.
Okay, here we have three entities, and they all agree… whether it is a “trinity” or not, I don't care, but you see the Father, you see His Son, and you see the Spirit of the Father, being the truth, and this selfsame Spirit is the essence of the Word of Truth (the Son, Jesus).3] The Spirit of God as The Spirit of The Father AND The Son:
Gal 4:6 “…the Spirit of His Son…”
John “…the Spirit whom I will send to you from the Father…”It is safe to say that in Heaven, ONE Spirit is in charge (God is not the God of confusion) so we know that this Spirit is the Spirit of God. Many times, the Bible says this. The Spirit was to be poured out on “all flesh” according to Scripture… I don't want to argue about a moot point… this is tiring: I said what I thought; if you don't agree or have any substantial information, I'm moving on to another topic.
QUINTUS SEPTIMUS FLORENS TERTULLIAN
Who was Tertullian? And why is he so important to these studies? Tertullian
was born to pagan parents, in Carthage North Africa, in the year 155 A.D. He was educated in philosophy, and in Greek and Latin Literature; he also studied law. He became greatly interested in Christianity, because he admired those Christians that were willing to die for their faith, something he had not witnessed before in any other religion. In 193 A.D. he became a Christian himself, and devoted his time to the study of scripture. And by using his knowledge of Law, Literature and Philosophy, he became the great defender of the Christians, against the pagan State, the Jews and several heretic sects. He is credited with becoming one of the greatest early Christian writers. It is said, that his doctrine of the trinity, finds its best expression in his late work “Adversus Praxean”. His doctrine of the trinity? Absolutely! He was a very educated and intelligent man, at a time when most people didn’t know how to read or write. He would have known about other religion just as we do today. He would have known about the triad god of the Egyptians, as he would have known about the triad god’s of the Babylonians and others; and there were others. The Romans themselves had dozens of god’s, and in India today are as many gods as there are people. To make the Christian God a trinity, came almost natural, it made this religion more popular. That is why it is said of him, that in his doctrine of the trinity and Christology, he made his greatest contribution to theology. What is theology and Christology? It is mans study and interpretation of God and his Son, in short, the doctrines of men. You have to ask yourself, why did the Church forbid the reading of the bible, under penalty of death? One reason is for sure, it was easier to fool and control people. But what is our excuse? Do we not have a bible? Do we not know how to read? Do we face execution for reading the bible? Just who is it that is telling us God is a trinity? It is not Christ in his gospel. Does the word of God count for nothing?
Deut. 4:35 “Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he isGod; there is none else beside him.”
Deut. 6:4 “Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one.”
Why is it so hard to believe the truth, and so easy to believe a lie?
Is. 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is
because there is no light (understanding) in them.”
Paul gives a warning too.
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”Those are strong words, and should not be taken lightly.
Tertullian also writes a book for widows in which he explains why they should not remarry. Then he writes a second book in which he explains why it is all right to remarry. Then he writes yet a third book in which he claims, to remarry is against the will of God and is adulterous to do so. In his later years he left the Christian Church. And this is the man that tells us there is a trinity??? This is also the man of whom it is said that “ his doctrine of the Holy Eucharist “, the Mass sacrifices, the abomination that makes desolate, has been much discussed. His doctrine; I’m shaking my head. Why is it that men of such questionable character receive so much credibility? Tertullian died around 230 A. D., whether we realize it or not, tradition is a powerful enemy. We can be so entrenched in it, that we are willing to fight for it, even kill for it; and we make ourselves believe we worship God.
Mat. 15:9 “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
Growing in grace and knowledge requires an open mind, but not necessarily an all believing one. It is every ones responsibility to make sure, you were told the truth. The Bereans were taught by the Apostles, and they checked them out. Shouldn’t we be doing the same?
Acts 17:11 “These were more noble than those in Thessaloni’ca, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
1 Thes. 5:21 “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
This is not just a simple suggestion.Peace amd Love Irene
W H O I S G O D?
Ask this question today in our 21st Century and the answer would be obvious. Most people would point upwards and say, “God is God”. 2000 years ago the answer would not have been so obvious. The Romans had many gods; a god of thunder, a god of lightening, a god of rain, a god of war, a god of love, ect, ect. There is something else people associate with the word god, supernatural powers. In ancient times people would chisel a statue out of rock, or carve a figure out of wood, or shape a figure out of metal, and then call it their god. They would then worship and sacrifice before this god. We may laugh at that today, but then, this was serious business, because people were sacrificed to these gods. But in those days there were also none deities’ gods. People with great political power were gods, so were strong military leaders, or wealthy businessmen. They were all considered mighty men, gods, minus the supernatural powers.
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the Almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, and a mighty one. Except when we speak of thee God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O LORD…”
And just as all the gods had names, so does the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
“Jehovah” is the name of the Almighty God, “Yahweh” in Hebrew. The name occurs 6823 times in the O.T., and yet in my bible, the King James, it is only written four times; other translation mentions the name at all. No wonder people think “God” is God’s name. There is a reason why God’s name was omitted. The “Scribes”, a Jewish religious sect, in charge of copying the scriptures, had such a reverence for the name, a fear of using the name in vain, they would not speak it or write it; and so they replaced the name Jehovah with “the LORD”, LORD in capital letters. So, where ever you read “the LORD”, you should know it should say, “Jehovah”
Why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. Paul tells us only God is immortal.
1 Tim. 1:17 “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
1 Tim. 6:16 “Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Is. 45:18 “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he has established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”
Is. 46:9 “Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, there is none like me.”
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And why are there no scriptures that clearly show God is a trinity? Because there are none, God is not the author of confusion.
1 Cor. 14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures above that indicates there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. If Jesus was God, and equal to God, Is. 40:25 should not be in your bible, and Jesus should not be called his son. God has no equal.
History tells us, a triune god is nothing new. The Egyptians worshiped a triune god long before Christ, Osiris the father, Horus the son, and Ises the virgin. I find the resemblance to the present doctrine of the trinity very interesting, to say the least. India too, is worshiping a triad god, Siva, Brahma and Vishnu. So did the Babylonians, Ishtar, Sin and Shamash. Doesn’t that make you wonder at all? We read in,
1 John 4:12 “No one has seen God at any time…”
If Jesus were “God”, that scripture would not be true, especially since Jesus was the one that said it.
John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time…”
Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary, he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should not the Holy Spirit be his father?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what God’s Holy Spirit does, he helps us, and comforts us. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit was a person, was God, God would have made that very clear in scripture, and again, it would make the Holy Spirit another equal to God. This is only more confusion. Many will reason and say, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as a “he”, that is prove of a person.
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send, in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
If one little word, “he”, is prove that the Holy Spirit is a person, than the same must be said of another little word, “her”.
Mk. 13:28
“Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.”
Now you may not find the word “her” in all translation, but it is in my bible, “The Ryrie Study Bible, King James version”. And even if it were present in every bible, no one would assume the fig tree was a woman.
There is not a single scripture that says, the Spirit is God, all scriptures say, the Spirit of God, God’s Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of the Lord. Never is the Spirit addressed in the way we address the Father or the Son; and both are called by their name, so why is the Holy Spirit never called by his name? He has no name, he does not exist, as a third person that is.
Have you ever wondered, why did Jesus say?
John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter (Spirit) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
Why was it so expedient, so important, for Jesus to go back to the Father? Why would God not send us his Holy Spirit if Jesus had not returned first? God is holy and pure; he cannot look at sin, much less dwell in sinful men. Jesus had to ascend to heaven, where he presented himself as our sacrifice for our sins, had God not accepted his offering, there would have been no atonement for our sins, and God would not have been able to send us his Holy Spirit. It is when WE accept Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior, that God will forgive us all our sins.
Col. 2:13 “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.”
Only then can, and will, the Father send us HIS Holy Spirit, the Comforter. Only then can, and will, the Father dwell in us.
John 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, if a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”
Let me ask you this, who raised up Jesus from the dead, God, meaning the Father, or the Spirit?
Acts 13:30 “But God raised him from the dead.”
So, is Paul contradicting himself when he says in Romans it was the Spirit?
Rom. 8:11 “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
It was the Spirit OF God that raised up Jesus, not another person. God has a spirit, Christ has a spirit, Paul had a spirit, I have a spirit, you have a spirit, everybody has a spirit; we call it a mind. You never heard any one say; are you out of your spirit? Or, have you lost your spirit? Whether we call it spirit or mind, its all the same, the difference is; God’s Spirit is Holy, ours is not.
May I also bring to your attention that Paul’s letters, Peter’s and John’s, all start with, “Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ”, never a mentioning of the “Holy Spirit.” If I was the Holy Spirit I would feel left out, wouldn’t you?
Paul always gives thanks to the Father.
Rom. 1:8 “First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all…”
1 Cor. 1:4 “I thank my God always on your behalf…”
Phil. 1:3 “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.”
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
1Thes. 1:2 “We give thanks to God always for you all…”
My point is this; considering what the Holy Spirit does for us, would he not deserve some thanks too?
John says, if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both, the father and the Son; should we not have all three?
2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.”
v. 10 “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God’s speed.”
Very powerful words should really make us think!
Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God he has created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians.
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says.
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Some people think God is to complicate to be understood, that’s because some people have made God to complicated to be understood. God in his word, the bible, has given us everything we need to know about him, if we go beyond that, its like going to the moon, trying to find out how life began.
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
If we want God to answer our prayers, should we not first listen what he is saying to us?
Those who are our teachers should take this last scripture very serious.Two very important articles that my Husband wrote.
Peace and Love IreneRemember, Irene, that 82:6 cannot be interpreted as meaning “strong ones”, because it was over this very Scripture that Jesus was almost stoned to death:
John 10:30-34
“30”I and the Father are one.”31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35″If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?”
Jesus interpreted that Scripture as meaning 'gods'; not 'mighty ones'.
By saying that He was God's Son, He was making Himself equal to God:
John 5:8
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.I understand that you are hypervigilant about being indoctrinated with traditions of men; so am I, but it is what it is; we can't change His statements! I am only reflecting to you what the Bible says.
Jesus is God John 1:14+John 1:1+John 17:5
About the name of God:
The writers of Scripture, out of reverence for the Jews who did not use God's name – as a fulfillment of prophetic warning about their disobedience and what it would cause to come to pass Amos 6:10 – but chose to write “LORD”, so everytime you see “LORD”, it is God's awesome name.1 Tim 6:16 it talking about men like us; not the Man, Jesus, who is seated at the right hand of power, also consider John 5:37 “…You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.” Jesus was implying that He had seen God's form. The reason no man can see God the Father is because we have been affected by sin, whereas Jesus had never been.
I don't quite understand, it seems that you do believe that God has a Son and you are saying that He was His Son before He was created — this doesn't make Jesus embodied any less the Son of God than He was when He was in eternity with God… does it?
The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit was given by the Father in Heaven, and yet the Father stayed in Heaven…
Seriously, though, this is a topic that many people argue about here – the trinity – I don't want to talk about this any more. Don't believe if you don't want to. I'll just keep knowing that God is a Spirit, a Soul, and His Words/Actions.Hello all been reading alot but not commenting very much have not had time for debate. Cannot resist this one though.
1Cr 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.We see a definant comparison between the way a man's spirit works him. (IN THE SAME WAY) God's Spirit works in Him.
Ecc 3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
Animals have flesh and spirit ( the spirit is our life) but they do not have a soul. So T8 only animals may be binary not humans.
Wow what a coincidence seems like only man has a triune nature. (And we are created in the image of GOD according to genisis. Then in romans paul writes that Adam was created in the pattern of the one to come.)
So we take:
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth,[fn2] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Gen 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.Then we go to:
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
pattern of the one to come hmmmm?
???? what could that mean.?.?.?:
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jhn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jhn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.I have not added to or taken away from these scriptures just simply pasted them. They say what they say and nothing more. T8 man is tri une the scripture is clear on this hebrews 4 says that our soul and spirit are different and the word can seperate this for us. And in thessalonians paul prays that our WHOLE spirit,soul,and body be held blameless till the coming of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
Hanoch really well said as far as the Nature of things. God bless everyone Chip.
(borrowed that one from you wj)Yeah, the soul is the decision-maker (judge) and we have to choose between walking in the spirit or in the flesh.
“The soul that sins will die.” That is, the soul that errs, walking against the command of the Spirit of God, choosing to walk in rebellion – his own body/mind's desires.
Soul, spirit, flesh.
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