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Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2010,09:29) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,07:20) Merry Christmas Bod and Stuart and all. 
Peace be upon you and your entire Family!
Love and peace to you and yours too Bod. Hope you are well.BD
Quote You have shown your viewpoints to be rather religious and I like that but it's interesting that you masquerade the religious sentiments as somehow not religious.
Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it? It does not say what I said. What religion would have the sophistication of an ethical argument like this? None I know.Quote If a person chose to have sex with an animal how is it you say that an animal cannot give consent? If the animal is sexually excited and is certainly looking for satisfaction what more consent would a person need? Do you think animals comsent with one another? If so or if Not how would the consent between humans and animals be any different?
The next time a randy bull sees you still wearing the after-effects of Viagra (I stress this is a hypothetical scenario) then I hope you will bear in mind the consent you appear to have given that bull. Apart from that, I will remind you that I am not going to discuss this point with you because I have made my position very clear in the past, and previous posts of mine have covered this already.Quote You said Adultery was wrong because lying was immoral, Why is lying immoral, what is wrong with sneaking behind someones back to have sex with their neighbors willing wife?
If you have promised to honour, love and obey, then I think you are breaking that promise, aren’t you? Wouldn’t you say integrity is a moral quality? As far as I can see, a deception of this significance would go against a universally acknowledged principle that deceptions which are likely to cause harm to others are immoral. It is both inate and reasoned as an ethical principle.Quote So here we are again, You are saying that A Father and Son of consenting age have the right to have sexual intercourse or a grandmother in menopause has a right to have sexual intercourse with her adult son or daughter.
Indeed, here we go again. You ignore all of what we have already discussed and just start all over again. Is your memory selective, or just very poor?Quote I never said that MARRIAGE at any age is immoral or incorrect and no where in either of the Holy Books I study forbids such MARRIAGES, The word pedophelia is then equal to the word gerophelia and has no meaning as Marriage is Marriage: If the Parents of a child agree to any Marriage it is permissable and if the Child is an orphan it is also permissable. Marriage is a lifelong commitment so age is only relative throughout that relationship, Do you see it wrong for an 80 year old man to marry a 60 year old woman? Do you find it wrong for a 70 year old woman to marry a 40 year old man?
And marriage is not marriage without consummation, which in the case of Mo and Aisha happened when she was nine. Are you seriously telling me that marriage between a 20 year old and a 40 year old is analogous with marriage between a nine year old and a man over the age of 50 (notwithstanding the fact that the marriage started when Aisha was six or seven)? In what sense is this “permissable”? Not in your country it isn’t.Are you saying that muslims should consider Mo’s pedophilia acceptable today? That is the only way you can claim your religion is not blowing this way and that ethically.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33) BD Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,But ONLY for the muslims; and multiple marriages don't count!
As a matter of fact the 'quran' teaches it is OK to kill Christians to take their wives to wife,
and also to kidnap Christian's wives and their children to wife as well; How ironic, huh? What a blasphemous religion!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33) BD Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,But ONLY for the muslims; and multiple marriages don't count!
As a matter of fact the 'quran' teaches it is OK to kill Christians to take their wives to wife,
and also to kidnap Christian's wives and their children to wife as well; How ironic, huh? What a blasphemous religion!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,Why misrepresent the truth?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 27 2010,10:54) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33) BD Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,But ONLY for the muslims; and multiple marriages don't count!
As a matter of fact the 'quran' teaches it is OK to kill Christians to take their wives to wife,
and also to kidnap Christian's wives and their children to wife as well; How ironic, huh? What a blasphemous religion!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,Why misrepresent the truth?
Hi BD,You know what I say is true of islam!
YHVH Bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33) BD Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,But ONLY for the muslims; and multiple marriages don't count!
As a matter of fact the 'quran' teaches it is OK to kill Christians to take their wives to wife,
and also to kidnap Christian's wives and their children to wife as well; How ironic, huh? What a blasphemous religion!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj, you ever read the hebrew scriptures fully. take a closer look, there are rules to war i believe in exodus, regarding gold, silver, trees, children, women, men and animals when war had taken another tribe, i am certian there was quite a slaughter over the taking of certian items while moses was the ruler over the hebrews.all or nothing………
Quote If you have promised to honour, love and obey, then I think you are breaking that promise, aren’t you? depends on ones view of what they feel has promised.
per your view these words have different meanings then the regular poster of this forum.
marriage is sacred in some sects, undefiled, clean and pure, a virgin (hence, 'sacrifice the virgin' that statement in itself leads all over the place with theology) it can be referenced to the parable of the oil lamps, preparation for the groom, staying pure, at this time the heart was not measured it was how you lived your life, that is why such a fuss is made over the statement of pauls 'faith without works is dead' jewish christian thing that they go back and forth, with neither of them seeing they have it right just in the wrong areas.
you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,11:02) you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
A fair point, and perhaps I shouldn't have bothered continuing with that issue at all. It was tedious of BD to question the point regarding the dishonesty of adultery: his book of mythology proclaims against lying and I already stated that lying with such consequences as that deception would have is something I would consider wrong too. I think he was just being looking for controversy where there was none.Stuart
Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,08:51) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,16:20) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33) BD Your religion says that adultery is wrong, doesn’t it?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,But ONLY for the muslims; and multiple marriages don't count!
As a matter of fact the 'quran' teaches it is OK to kill Christians to take their wives to wife,
and also to kidnap Christian's wives and their children to wife as well; How ironic, huh? What a blasphemous religion!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edj, you ever read the hebrew scriptures fully. take a closer look, there are rules to war i believe in exodus, regarding gold, silver, trees, children, women, men and animals when war had taken another tribe, i am certian there was quite a slaughter over the taking of certian items while moses was the ruler over the hebrews.all or nothing………
Hi POK,You know the story of David and Uriah the Hittite; don't you?
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 28 2010,16:34) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,11:02) you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
A fair point, and perhaps I shouldn't have bothered continuing with that issue at all. It was tedious of BD to question the point regarding the dishonesty of adultery: his book of mythology proclaims against lying and I already stated that lying with such consequences as that deception would have is something I would consider wrong too. I think he was just being looking for controversy where there was none.Stuart
Hi Stuart,In islam lying is OK; didn't you know that?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ Dec. 28 2010,16:34) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,11:02) you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
A fair point, and perhaps I shouldn't have bothered continuing with that issue at all. It was tedious of BD to question the point regarding the dishonesty of adultery: his book of mythology proclaims against lying and I already stated that lying with such consequences as that deception would have is something I would consider wrong too. I think he was just being looking for controversy where there was none.Stuart
islam in itself is a strange religion, like every religion you can take the good of it and then take the bad.it is that all or nothing attitude people get, either you give all of it or nothing.
however what i find to most compelling is that ones that take this stand have to swallow a strong posion of sort, knowing deep in their soul that it is wrong, only to fear their elders that if the task is not completed they will not be accepted into the group. just to prove.
you know the ancient texts read that one day the truth will be revealed, what i find to be most interesting is that the ones that thought they had it didn't, and the ones that didn't think they had it, did.
now to catorgize you Stuart in the possible is unlikely, due to the idea is beyond your thoughts. sorry.
take care Stuart, love and peace to you and yours.
Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 29 2010,00:57) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 28 2010,16:34) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,11:02) you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
A fair point, and perhaps I shouldn't have bothered continuing with that issue at all. It was tedious of BD to question the point regarding the dishonesty of adultery: his book of mythology proclaims against lying and I already stated that lying with such consequences as that deception would have is something I would consider wrong too. I think he was just being looking for controversy where there was none.Stuart
islam in itself is a strange religion, like every religion you can take the good of it and then take the bad.it is that all or nothing attitude people get, either you give all of it or nothing.
however what i find to most compelling is that ones that take this stand have to swallow a strong posion of sort, knowing deep in their soul that it is wrong, only to fear their elders that if the task is not completed they will not be accepted into the group. just to prove.
you know the ancient texts read that one day the truth will be revealed, what i find to be most interesting is that the ones that thought they had it didn't, and the ones that didn't think they had it, did.
now to catorgize you Stuart in the possible is unlikely, due to the idea is beyond your thoughts. sorry.
take care Stuart, love and peace to you and yours.
Thanks very much, and to you.I think in some ways it is pretty easy to categorise me. Although the nasty religion of islam requires you to put yourself second to it, I like to think of myself as a human being first, but of course the religious would need a further category for me and in relation to your post I am all or nothing in that I reject christianity.
No only does it strike me as an immoral proposition, but I guess in the end it just seems to me to be unnecessary. If you see the actions and deeds of Jesus (fictional though they must be treated) as good and worthy of living up to, then Jesus is not the important aspect of it. You must have already have worked out what a good life constitutes if you are able to see that in the fable of Jesus. Of course if you believe Jesus can be punished in place of you then I think you are not taking moral responsibility.
Just my $2000.00 worth.
Although I'd never charge for it!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 29 2010,17:50) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 29 2010,00:57) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 28 2010,16:34) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 28 2010,11:02) you and bd have had this debate before time and time again, with the same thing happening as it does in any other thread…..no offence there big ape, you need more material.
A fair point, and perhaps I shouldn't have bothered continuing with that issue at all. It was tedious of BD to question the point regarding the dishonesty of adultery: his book of mythology proclaims against lying and I already stated that lying with such consequences as that deception would have is something I would consider wrong too. I think he was just being looking for controversy where there was none.Stuart
islam in itself is a strange religion, like every religion you can take the good of it and then take the bad.it is that all or nothing attitude people get, either you give all of it or nothing.
however what i find to most compelling is that ones that take this stand have to swallow a strong posion of sort, knowing deep in their soul that it is wrong, only to fear their elders that if the task is not completed they will not be accepted into the group. just to prove.
you know the ancient texts read that one day the truth will be revealed, what i find to be most interesting is that the ones that thought they had it didn't, and the ones that didn't think they had it, did.
now to catorgize you Stuart in the possible is unlikely, due to the idea is beyond your thoughts. sorry.
take care Stuart, love and peace to you and yours.
Thanks very much, and to you.I think in some ways it is pretty easy to categorise me. Although the nasty religion of islam requires you to put yourself second to it, I like to think of myself as a human being first, but of course the religious would need a further category for me and in relation to your post I am all or nothing in that I reject christianity.
No only does it strike me as an immoral proposition, but I guess in the end it just seems to me to be unnecessary. If you see the actions and deeds of Jesus (fictional though they must be treated) as good and worthy of living up to, then Jesus is not the important aspect of it. You must have already have worked out what a good life constitutes if you are able to see that in the fable of Jesus. Of course if you believe Jesus can be punished in place of you then I think you are not taking moral responsibility.
Just my $2000.00 worth.
Although I'd never charge for it!
Stuart
Hi Stuart,Do you not understand the principal of the kinsman redeemer?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote I am all or nothing in that I reject christianity. i disagree, due to the two text you mentioned in a prior conversation.
do not throw the baby out with the bath water Stuart, where one finds a truth it should be held onto, there are many truths throughout text, when it comes down to it Stuart, it is what your spirit feels. emotions, common sense are great tools, that deep down wrentch your gut is the one that is important.
alas, once this feeling is felt, humans have a tendency to fight or flee one of the two. the control on these issue it what determines the humanrace. not understanding that we are all chosen, we our selves detach from the original as we go through life.
love to you Stuart, who charges nothing.
my apologies edj for not waiting for Stuart to respond to your post, you were the last to ask a question.
take care.
Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 30 2010,06:21) my apologies edj for not waiting for Stuart to respond to your post, you were the last to ask a question. take care.
Hi POK,No problem! Glad to see you're here participating!
God bless
eD j
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgStu
Posted: Dec. 29 2010,17:50Stuart please forgive me for not responding to this sooner.
'No only does it strike me as an immoral proposition, but I guess in the end
it just seems to me to be unnecessary.'some ends have a begining,
some beginings have end,
what is done inbetween is necessary.'If you see the actions and deeds of Jesus
(fictional though they must be treated)
as good and worthy of living up to,
then Jesus is not the important aspect of it.'agreed.
'You must have already have worked out
what a good life constitutes
if you are able to see that in the fable of Jesus.'agreed,
how is a good life established
by what standard.'Of course if you believe Jesus can be punished
in place of you
then I think you are not taking moral responsibility.'i understand how you feel on this.
much love Stuart
hope to find you well.Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 30 2010,06:19) do not throw the baby out with the bath water Stuart, where one finds a truth it should be held onto, there are many truths throughout text, when it comes down to it Stuart, it is what your spirit feels. emotions, common sense are great tools, that deep down wrentch your gut is the one that is important.
I agree. My very guts tell me that christianity is an obscene proposition. My brain agrees.What truth is there in Judeo-christian scripture? I can think of none that is not done much better by others. You might propose Matthew 7:12, to which Confucius has a better answer.
Stuart
Quote (princess @ Jan. 05 2011,13:23) Stu
Posted: Dec. 29 2010,17:50Stuart please forgive me for not responding to this sooner.
'No only does it strike me as an immoral proposition, but I guess in the end
it just seems to me to be unnecessary.'some ends have a begining,
some beginings have end,
what is done inbetween is necessary.'If you see the actions and deeds of Jesus
(fictional though they must be treated)
as good and worthy of living up to,
then Jesus is not the important aspect of it.'agreed.
'You must have already have worked out
what a good life constitutes
if you are able to see that in the fable of Jesus.'agreed,
how is a good life established
by what standard.'Of course if you believe Jesus can be punished
in place of you
then I think you are not taking moral responsibility.'i understand how you feel on this.
much love Stuart
hope to find you well.
The moral “standard” to which you refer was in place long before humans invented Abrahamic monotheism, which has only existed for the last 5% of all human history.Judeo-christianity is as unnecessary for anything now as it ever was in that first 95% of our existence as a species, and it's easily arguable that we would have been better off if it had never existed. In fact it would have gone the way of so many other crackpot Jewish cults to a side mention in the footnotes had it not been adopted by Constantine as a replacement for other gods.
Stuart
i am so glad you are back Stuart i have missed you.
strange you mention confucius, my son and i just watched a bio of him the other day, such a peaceful man, a loss of a friend and processor took the wind out of his sails though, stating that heaven had turned against him.
whichever the case may be of text Stuart you find truth, and they can be compared to each other, even though you feel confucius has a better answer, the passages can reflect upon each other for a truth to be found.
would you teach me as you would teach my son? would you teach my son as you teach me?
Stuart, religion is not going to go away, either you take the good of it and leave it at that, or you continue to toss yourself back and forth trying to bring conflict and not the sound mind and intelliengce that was given to you, it is your choice Stuart, noone elses.
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