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In all of the political and cultural debates over the Ten Commandments, one question that receives far too little attention is whether anyone should be expected to adhere to the Ten Commandments in the first place. They are, after all, Jewish laws, so why should any non-Jews bother with them?
If people regard the Ten Commandments as simply basic behavioral rules that God expects of everyone, then of course they will expect everyone to follow them. What these people tend to miss, however, is that this is not how the Jews originally understood the Ten Commandments. Instead, the Ten Commandments were regarded as behavioral rules for Jews — the chosen people. They weren’t commandments for everyone else.
Indeed, this was the status of all the 623 commandments in ancient Hebrew law. They were God’s laws for God’s chosen people, not laws that applied to gentiles. So what were gentiles supposed to do? Jewish scholars came up with a set of laws that all of humanity should follow, especially those traveling through or living in areas controlled by Jews.
The lists vary to some degree, but most accepted the truth of seven basic rules known as the Noahide Laws. The name refers to the idea that all humans share a common descent from Noah after the Great Flood. Jews describe any group of gentiles following the Noahide Laws as B’nai Noach, or “Descendants of Noah,” and individuals are considered “Righteous Gentiles.” Adherence to these laws are the means by which non-Jews can best have a meaningful relationship with God. Neither following the Ten Commandments nor the rest of the halakha is necessary.
Do not murder.
Do not steal.
Do not worship false gods.
Do not engage in sexual immorality (usually incest, sodomy, adultery, homosexuality).
Do not eat any part of an animal not slaughtered according to ritual requirements.
Do not blaspheme.
Establish courts of justice.
About half of the Noahide Laws are the same as what appears in the Ten Commandments — but not all of them. There are also some additions we find here that don’t appear in the Decalogue.Although one might follow these laws for almost any reason, including many reasons unconnected with Judaism, it is commonly believed that only those gentiles who follow the laws specifically because of their divine origin will share in the fruits of the World to Come. Following the laws for this reason as opposed to some other reason demonstrates both a knowledge of God and a willingness to submit to God’s wishes.
Through the centuries various Jewish scholars have added other regulations they considered important, like forbidding castration or paying tithes, but the above laws have been retained in all lists and are regarded as generally authoritative in all schools of thought.
Most Americans who work for the posting of the Ten Commandments in public buildings or creating Ten Commandments monuments are not Jews and thus not technically bound to follow the Ten Commandments. Even if one accepts the authoritative nature of the Bible (which is not something that the government can endorse), all that gentiles are obligated to follow are probably the Noahide Laws, but I haven’t seen anyone try to create a monument for them.
Should people follow the Ten Commandments? If one is a believing Jew, then it seems reasonable to conclude that one should indeed follow them — it wouldn’t make much sense to ignore them. If one is not a believing Jew, then it isn’t necessary to follow all of them. If one accepts the Old Testament as authoritative, then one should simply adhere to the Noahide Laws and that should be sufficient.
Even if we ignore all of this, it is unclear how adherence to the Ten Commandments could ever be anything more than a personal choice. Four of the commandments are religious in nature and there is no good reason to think that a civil government has the authority to tell people what god to worship, not to take a specific god’s name in vain, not to have idols, etc.
Even the less religious commandments have problems. Although honoring one’s parents is normally a good idea, many have been abused by their parents and it would not be reasonable to tell them to “honor” such people. The tenth commandment not only condones slavery, something modern society abandoned long ago, but can also be read as supportive of women having a second-class status. Once again it would not be reasonable for the government to even endorse such positions, much less impose it upon people.
Source: http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/noahidelaws.htm
What do Christians say on this?
Please share your views
AdamAdam,
That question is covered on other threads and there are different tenets that are referred to as Christian.
What do you believe the answer is?
I hold the view that the sum of the Law is love your neighbor and yourself as God intends.
Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2010,21:39) Adam, That question is covered on other threads and there are different tenets that are referred to as Christian.
What do you believe the answer is?
I hold the view that the sum of the Law is love your neighbor and yourself as God intends.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for the first response on this new thread. Infact I wanted it to be more specific to question the applicability of Ten Commandments on Christians who are non-jews. I know what Jesus preached about the cream of the Law “Love your God and Love your neighbour as yourself”. But it still worth debating on this tricky issue of following Ten Commandments which many Christian organizations force on their congregation including so called tithing.Hope others will also join this debate.
Thanks and love to you
AdamAdam,
According to what God has brought me to understand when you live by the spirit of righteousness you totally love your neighbor and yourself as God intends. Since you love as God intends you keep the important aspects of the Ten Commandments. All 10 have aspects that are covered by the command to love but the Command to keep the Sabbath was a command issued as a gift to the twelve tribes of Isreal and the Gentiles living among them. In the case of Gentiles who do not live among the Hebrew people it is sufficent to not overwork oneselves or command others to overwork. In the case of one under the command of such a Gentile a righteous Gentile should also ban them from overworking.
The reason Gentiles who live among the Hebrew people are to behave differently in that the righteous are instructed to obey the authorities God has placed over them.
Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2010,16:08) Adam, According to what God has brought me to understand when you live by the spirit of righteousness you totally love your neighbor and yourself as God intends. Since you love as God intends you keep the important aspects of the Ten Commandments. All 10 have aspects that are covered by the command to love but the Command to keep the Sabbath was a command issued as a gift to the twelve tribes of Isreal and the Gentiles living among them. In the case of Gentiles who do not live among the Hebrew people it is sufficent to not overwork oneselves or command others to overwork. In the case of one under the command of such a Gentile a righteous Gentile should also ban them from overworking.
The reason Gentiles who live among the Hebrew people are to behave differently is that the righteous are instructed to obey the authorities God has placed over them.
That is an amazing truth you have brought out here on the essence of Ten Commandmnets. But I am critical about some sects of Christianity who insist Sabbath, Ten Commandments , Tiths etc. on their congregation who are non-jews. Is it justifying on their part without explaining them properly about the base of scriptures?Love and peace
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ May 26 2010,11:17) Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2010,16:08) Adam, According to what God has brought me to understand when you live by the spirit of righteousness you totally love your neighbor and yourself as God intends. Since you love as God intends you keep the important aspects of the Ten Commandments. All 10 have aspects that are covered by the command to love but the Command to keep the Sabbath was a command issued as a gift to the twelve tribes of Isreal and the Gentiles living among them. In the case of Gentiles who do not live among the Hebrew people it is sufficent to not overwork oneselves or command others to overwork. In the case of one under the command of such a Gentile a righteous Gentile should also ban them from overworking.
The reason Gentiles who live among the Hebrew people are to behave differently is that the righteous are instructed to obey the authorities God has placed over them.
That is an amazing truth you have brought out here on the essence of Ten Commandmnets. But I am critical about some sects of Christianity who insist Sabbath, Ten Commandments , Tiths etc. on their congregation who are non-jews. Is it justifying on their part without explaining them properly about the base of scriptures?Love and peace
Adam
Adam,Those so called Christians are adding to the Law of God when they insist that Gentiles behave like Jews. Other false sects insist that Jews behave like Gentiles. That violates God's law by taking away from it.
Satan sets many snares and the ignorant and corrupt fall into them an we should take care to avoid them.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 26 2010,11:51) Thank you very much for such warning.
You are welcome, though the warning is for me and everyone else as much as it is for you.Hi Adam: So, God's eternal law, the ten commandments, is exclusive to the Jews? Are they superior to other people?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 27 2010,12:41) Hi Adam: So, God's eternal law, the ten commandments, is exclusive to the Jews? Are they superior to other people? Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi brother Marty, if you have read my first post your question would have been answered.Thanks and peace to you
AdamShould we follow the ten commandments?
Jesus C. summed up the law, including the ten, into two: Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. As we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, we will not have time to anything else. Likewise, if we love our neighbor as ourselves, we certainly would not do anything harmful to them, and would actually be beneficial to them.
Romans 4 points out that Abraham was counted righteous by God because Abraham chose to believe the promise of God. Abraham was not under the law of Moses, including the ten.
Romans 6:14,15; Romans 8:2-4; Galatians 2:16,19; Galatians 4:5 as well as some other places teach that we are no longer under the law, including the ten. We have something better than the law. We have the finished works of Jesus Christ. As we live according to the truths regarding the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, as taught in Romans through Thessalonians, we fulfill the law. We fulfill it without all the works of the law.
Hi B,
Jesus was sent to the jewish people.[mt15.24]
He taught them about their Law when they asked him questions about it.
But that should not be assumed to be applying their law to us as we are not jews but gentiles[rom 2.12, 3.19]Barley,
What do you mean when you state we fullfill the law without fullfiling all of the works of the Law?
I ask because you sound like your understanding is similar to mine on this issue but due to the nature of language I cannot be sure.
I agree that if you fulfill the command “love your neighbor as yourself” then you fulfill the righteous requirements of the law. I also agree that some legal requirements of the Law were addressed to the Hebrew people and not to the Gentiles. In addition some legal requirements were about symbolism and the reality is in living by the Spirit of Holiness. All of the Law is an Act of God's love and thus all the commands are good and righteous.
What I am asking is if you would expand on what you meant by giving an explanation in the same pattern as mine. Feel free to comment on mine and make any additions and subtractions you feel need to be made to be true to God's intent.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2010,15:35) Barley, What do you mean when you state we fullfill the law without fullfiling all of the works of the Law?
I ask because you sound like your understanding is similar to mine on this issue but due to the nature of language I cannot be sure.
I agree that if you fulfill the command “love your neighbor as yourself” then you fulfill the righteous requirements of the law. I also agree that some legal requirements of the Law were addressed to the Hebrew people and not to the Gentiles. In addition some legal requirements were about symbolism and the reality is in living by the Spirit of Holiness. All of the Law is an Act of God's love and thus all the commands are good and righteous.
What I am asking is if you would expand on what you meant by giving an explanation in the same pattern as mine. Feel free to comment on mine and make any additions and subtractions you feel need to be made to be true to God's intent.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Romans 13:10 instructs us that “love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” We are no longer under the law, but that does not excuse us from doing what is right.To have a happy relationship with our Heavenly Father we must learn to do His will, not our own. That is a good thing. Our wills most often gets us in trouble.
Romans 15:4 states that whatsoever was written aforetime was written for our learning. The laws of Moses was given to Israel, not to the Christian church. Galatians speaks that the law was our schoolmaster until Christ.
God has given us righteousness. II Corinthians 5:21. We now have the right to go to the throne of God boldly without any sense of sin, guilt, or condemnation. See also Romans 5:1 and 8:1. Our salvation is not dependent on our works like it was in the old T. Jesus Christ's works made salvation a gift by God's grace. However, since God gave us this very expensive gift. It cost him the life of his son. John 3:16. It certainly behooves us to honor God, obey and love God. As we learn more about what God has done for us freely, it becomes easier, or maybe more reasonable to return the favor.
Let us learn to walk for God in loving response to his free gift to us.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 28 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ May 27 2010,12:41) Hi Adam: So, God's eternal law, the ten commandments, is exclusive to the Jews? Are they superior to other people? Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi brother Marty, if you have read my first post your question would have been answered.Thanks and peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam:Could a gentile make the God of Israel their God, and be a part of the Nation of Israel?
Love in Christ,
MartyBarley,
Thank you for answering my request. I have some concerns to air.
You are correct that Paul teaches us that the Law is our schoolmaster until the comming of the new covenant. It is our schoolmaster in making us aware of our sins and providing a way to atone for them though it does not aid us in overcomming our sinful natures.
The later is done under the new covenant as we are given the spirit of righteousness and by living by it we will stop sinning. This is only possible through a faith that can move mountains because God is the one who does his works through that faith.
Under the old covenant they did have the same faith but they did not have the spirit of righteousness to live by because that is the gift of the new covenant. Since they lacked they spirit of righteousness they had to attemt to please God through human effort even though that effort was boosted by faith. In the end even the most faithful was limited in success due to their impure spirits.
So I agree with you that we cannot obtain righteousness though the works of man but we can obtain it by the works of God as all things are possible for God.
A truly righteous person loves himself and his neighbor as God intends and so does not sin. That is our goal and we can and will reach it by the power of God.
Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,11:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2010,15:35) Barley, What do you mean when you state we fullfill the law without fullfiling all of the works of the Law?
I ask because you sound like your understanding is similar to mine on this issue but due to the nature of language I cannot be sure.
I agree that if you fulfill the command “love your neighbor as yourself” then you fulfill the righteous requirements of the law. I also agree that some legal requirements of the Law were addressed to the Hebrew people and not to the Gentiles. In addition some legal requirements were about symbolism and the reality is in living by the Spirit of Holiness. All of the Law is an Act of God's love and thus all the commands are good and righteous.
What I am asking is if you would expand on what you meant by giving an explanation in the same pattern as mine. Feel free to comment on mine and make any additions and subtractions you feel need to be made to be true to God's intent.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Romans 13:10 instructs us that “love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” We are no longer under the law, but that does not excuse us from doing what is right.To have a happy relationship with our Heavenly Father we must learn to do His will, not our own. That is a good thing. Our wills most often gets us in trouble.
Romans 15:4 states that whatsoever was written aforetime was written for our learning. The laws of Moses was given to Israel, not to the Christian church. Galatians speaks that the law was our schoolmaster until Christ.
God has given us righteousness. II Corinthians 5:21. We now have the right to go to the throne of God boldly without any sense of sin, guilt, or condemnation. See also Romans 5:1 and 8:1. Our salvation is not dependent on our works like it was in the old T. Jesus Christ's works made salvation a gift by God's grace. However, since God gave us this very expensive gift. It cost him the life of his son. John 3:16. It certainly behooves us to honor God, obey and love God. As we learn more about what God has done for us freely, it becomes easier, or maybe more reasonable to return the favor.
Let us learn to walk for God in loving response to his free gift to us.
barleyjust for your information this does not lign up with your quote;Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Jas 2:15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
Jas 2:16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2010,15:47) Barley, Thank you for answering my request. I have some concerns to air.
You are correct that Paul teaches us that the Law is our schoolmaster until the comming of the new covenant. It is our schoolmaster in making us aware of our sins and providing a way to atone for them though it does not aid us in overcomming our sinful natures.
The later is done under the new covenant as we are given the spirit of righteousness and by living by it we will stop sinning. This is only possible through a faith that can move mountains because God is the one who does his works through that faith.
Under the old covenant they did have the same faith but they did not have the spirit of righteousness to live by because that is the gift of the new covenant. Since they lacked they spirit of righteousness they had to attemt to please God through human effort even though that effort was boosted by faith. In the end even the most faithful was limited in success due to their impure spirits.
So I agree with you that we cannot obtain righteousness though the works of man but we can obtain it by the works of God as all things are possible for God.
A truly righteous person loves himself and his neighbor as God intends and so does not sin. That is our goal and we can and will reach it by the power of God.
That is a great summary of the situation. I like how you stated these things.Just to elaborate a little more.
Romans says we are dead to sin. But we must claim that. It is not automatically implemented in our lives. The epistles speak of an old man nature that we are to put off, and a new man nature that we are to put on.
That old man nature is that sinful nature that you spoke of. The new man nature is that righteousness that we have been given.
As you said, we now have it in us to live right before God. And in more ways than one.
Romans 6. even as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, even so we should walk in the newness of life. Wow! What a wonderful truth! But we must decide to do this.
Let us walk more and more each day in the newness of life that God has made available to us.
Quote (terraricca @ June 24 2010,15:57) Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,11:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2010,15:35) Barley, What do you mean when you state we fullfill the law without fullfiling all of the works of the Law?
I ask because you sound like your understanding is similar to mine on this issue but due to the nature of language I cannot be sure.
I agree that if you fulfill the command “love your neighbor as yourself” then you fulfill the righteous requirements of the law. I also agree that some legal requirements of the Law were addressed to the Hebrew people and not to the Gentiles. In addition some legal requirements were about symbolism and the reality is in living by the Spirit of Holiness. All of the Law is an Act of God's love and thus all the commands are good and righteous.
What I am asking is if you would expand on what you meant by giving an explanation in the same pattern as mine. Feel free to comment on mine and make any additions and subtractions you feel need to be made to be true to God's intent.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Romans 13:10 instructs us that “love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” We are no longer under the law, but that does not excuse us from doing what is right.To have a happy relationship with our Heavenly Father we must learn to do His will, not our own. That is a good thing. Our wills most often gets us in trouble.
Romans 15:4 states that whatsoever was written aforetime was written for our learning. The laws of Moses was given to Israel, not to the Christian church. Galatians speaks that the law was our schoolmaster until Christ.
God has given us righteousness. II Corinthians 5:21. We now have the right to go to the throne of God boldly without any sense of sin, guilt, or condemnation. See also Romans 5:1 and 8:1. Our salvation is not dependent on our works like it was in the old T. Jesus Christ's works made salvation a gift by God's grace. However, since God gave us this very expensive gift. It cost him the life of his son. John 3:16. It certainly behooves us to honor God, obey and love God. As we learn more about what God has done for us freely, it becomes easier, or maybe more reasonable to return the favor.
Let us learn to walk for God in loving response to his free gift to us.
barleyjust for your information this does not lign up with your quote;Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Jas 2:15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
Jas 2:16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.Pierre
I do not think that I understand what you are trying to say.Have I not made myself clear enough? Are you reading into this something that is not there?
Could you explain how you see these verses in James contradicting what scripture teaches?
Sometimes people confuse salvation with good works. Salvation is not of works, See Ephesians 2:8,9 , but by the grace of God. However, Ephesians 2:10 teaches us that now that we have been given salvation we do have a job to do. We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Salvation is not an all expense paid vacation, it is the start of a life that glorifies God by us doing the works that God ordained us to do.
Did you know you have been ordained by God? Let's get to work!
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