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Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 15 2011,02:18) Your point is invalid because once again you cannot have “GOD” without having the three!
Yes I cannot have God without the mediator that is true.
So how does this scripture fit into your theology…?Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me. Exod 20:3
And…
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4
And…
…and that “there is none other God (theos) but one”. 1 Cor 8:4
Your theology places another god (theos) before YHWH. You can’t say this is not true because you have admitted you cannot have YHWH without Jesus. Your own words are deceiving when you say things like…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
You can use the God/god argument all you want but as you know in Hebrew and Greek there are no “caps” or distinction in the words and that the context distinguishes between the “one true theos/god” and all others who are not the “one true theos/god”.So based on your statement above, how many theos/gods do you have?
Since you say…
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,17:49) Actually I believe that Jesus is theos/god.
Is Jesus “your” god/theos?WJ
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:10) But not everyone that God uses is God too WJ.
Hi t8Well that is very telling of how you view Jesus. To you he is like everyone else in the sense that God “uses” him. It seems you still see the servant Jesus in the flesh, yet once again that is not the whole story.
Jesus is not just an agent of the Father like Moses and the rest for the scriptures teach us that Jesus is also the source of all things to us.
The scriptures tell us “Jesus has all authority and Power” (Math 28:18) and that “Jesus upholds all things by the word of his power” (Heb 1:3) and that “by him (Jesus) all things consist”, (Col 1:17) and that “all things come to us from Jesus hands” (John 3:5 & John 16:15).
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of eternal life” (John 1:3-5, John 3:15, John 6:63, John 6:54, John 10:28, John 14:6, John 17:2, 1 John 1:1-3, Acts 3:14, Rom 8:2, Rom 8:10, 1 Cor 8:6, 2 Tim 1:10).
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our faith” (Heb 12:2, 1 Cor 1:24, 1 Cor 1:30,)
The scriptures tell us that Jesus is the “source of our wisdom, knowledge and truth” (John 14:6, Col 2:3, 2 Peter 3:18,
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our riches” (2 Cor 8:9, Heb 11:26)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our power” (Rom 1:16, 1 Cor 1:18, 1 Cor 1:24, 1 Cor 5:4, Rev 2:26)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our righteousness” (Rom 5:17, Rom 8:10, 1 Cor 1:30, 10:4, 2 Cor 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Peter 1:1)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our salvation” (Rom 1:16, Phil 1:19, 1 Thess 5:9, 2 Tim 2:10, 2 Tim 3:15, Heb 9:28, Tit 2:13, 14, Phil 3:21)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of strength” (Matt 11:27-30, John 15:5, Eph 6:10, 1 Tim 1:12, 2 Tim 2:1, Phil 4:13, 2 Tim 4:17)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our image” (Gen 1:26, 27, Rom 8:29, Phil 3:21, 2 Cor 3:18, 2 Cor 4:4)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source from which we receive the Spirit of God” (Matt 3:11, John 1:33, John 3:34, John 4:13, 14, John 7:37-39, John 15:26, John 20:22, Rom 8:9, 10, 2 Cor 3:17, Gal 3:14, Gal 4:6, 1 Peter 1:11, Phil 1:19 Rev 22:1)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our victory” (Rom 5:17-21, 1 Cor 15:57, 1 John 4:4, 1 John 5:5, Rev 2:7, Rev 12:11,
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our hope, grace, mercy, and peace” (John 6:33, Rom 1:7, Rom 16:20, 1 Cor 1:3, 2 Cor 1:2, Col 1:27, Gal 1:3, Eph 1:2, Phil 1:2, Col 1:2, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Thess 1:2, 1 Tim 1:2, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, Plm 1:3, 2 John 1:3, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 3:13,)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our healing” (Isa 53:5, Matt 4:23, Matt 8:7, Matt 9:22, Matt 15:28, Mark 6:56, Matt 9:35, Matt 12:15, Matt 14:14, Matt 14:36, Matt 15:30, Luke 7:3, Luke 9:42, Luke 13:14, Luke 22:51, John 5:6-13, John 7:23, Acts 3:14-16, Acts 10:38, 1 Peter 2:24,)
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source of our Gospel and preaching” (Mark 1:1, Acts 5:42, Acts 17:3, Rom 1:16, Rom 15:19, Rom 15:29, 1 Cor 9:12, 1 Cor 9:18, 2 Cor 2:12, 2 Cor 3:3, 2 Cor 4:4, 5, 2 Cor 9:13, 2 Cor 10:14, Gal 1:7, Phil 1:27, Col 1:27, 28, 1 Thess 3:2, 2 Thess 1:8,
The scriptures tell us Jesus is the “source for our forgiveness of sins against God” (Matt 9:6, Mark 2:5-10, Rom 1:16, 1 John 1:7,)
So in other words when you say “Jesus is not the source” then you are denying the 150+ scriptures above.
You are teaching that those things do not come “from” Jesus but from the Father “through” Jesus who you say is not the source but he is an agent like Moses, though Moses had no power to do anything, it seems that to you Jesus is simply like a puppet or a funnel that the Father works through.
In essence your teaching does not lead men to Jesus but to the Father even though you cannot have the Father without Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures tell us that at this time Jesus is not a servant whom the Father uses but in fact he has not yet subjected the Kingdom or himself to the Father. (1 Cor 15:28)
If God is the “source” of all things and Jesus is the “source of all things”, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Jesus is God with a big “G” and not a little “god” with a little “g”.
That is why Jesus said “no man can pluck them out of my hand” and “I and the Father are One!” John 10:27-29
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:10) How is it that you cannot fathom this?
How is it that you cannot fathom what I just posted?WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2011,09:06) So how does this scripture fit into your theology…? Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me. Exod 20:3
And…
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4
Exod 20:3
Thou shalt have “no other gods” (elohiym) before me.= Thou shalt not have any other Father except me. The Father is God, so no one takes his place. Not even Jesus. Jesus is his son. The son of God.
Hosea 13:4
“But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”.= to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Even in the NT, God is the saviour. Jesus is often called the saviour, but he did the will of God by taking the cup that God asked him to partake of. Thus Jesus did the will of God and the will of God was that the son lay his life down for many. So it is not hard to see that God is the saviour because it was God that sent the son.
It is God that saved us, and he did it through Jesus Christ.
God is not a man that he could become one of us to become the Second Adam. You seriously underestimate God if you think he can become a man.
WJ, you ask the same questions over and over. You seem to be like those women that were described as always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2011,09:06) …and that “there is none other God (theos) but one”. 1 Cor 8:4 Your theology places another god (theos) before YHWH. You can’t say this is not true because you have admitted you cannot have YHWH without Jesus. Your own words are deceiving when you say things like…
Wrong again WJ.There is one Most High God and scripture calls angels, judges, and possibly Jesus as theos, NOT THE THEOS in the context as the Most High Theos.
I accept scripture's use of theos, you do not.
Once you can accept that theos is used as a title for different authorities (as all Concordances acknowledge too), then you will not continue to ask ignorant questions on this topic.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 16 2011,09:29) Hi t8 Well that is very telling of how you view Jesus. To you he is like everyone else in the sense that God “uses” him. It seems you still see the servant Jesus in the flesh, yet once again that is not the whole story.
Wrong again WJ.It is not that Jesus is like us, (ignoring that he came in the flesh), it is that we should be like him and will be like him. Even our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
Jesus is the image of God, and we were made in the image of God. What is the difference? For a start he is the full image. We reflect God in part. He reflects God's nature in full. Even the whole Body of Christ minus the head does not reflect God as much as Jesus does. Hence why he is the bridegroom and we the bride. He is the glory of God.
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