Proclaimer vs Lightenup

[Proclaimer]

1 or 2 Kathi.

Which one is the closest to what you believe.

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1) Jesus is the servant of YHWH. 2) Jesus is the servant of the other YHWH.

I chose 1 so now your turn.

[Lightenup]

Well, if you are referring to YHWH the Father, then choice 1 is what I believe. There is only one YHWH the Father.

Now a question for you:

How many beings are called YHWH in this verse:
Gen 19:24 Then YHWH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YHWH out of the heavens.

1) one
2) two

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,20:59)

Well, if you are referring to YHWH the Father, then choice 1 is what I believe. There is only one YHWH the Father. Now a question for you: How many beings are called YHWH in this verse: Gen 19:24 Then YHWH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YHWH out of the heavens. 1) one 2) two

But it doesn't say YHWH the Father.

This is a fail Kathi, because you need to add to the scripture to make it line up with your view.

FAIL.

[Lightenup]

T8,

Do you not believe that YHWH in your option #1 is the Father?

Please answer my question about Gen 19:24..

[Proclaimer]

LU. 1.

There is one YHWH mentioned twice.

It doesn't say YHWHs nor does it say OTHER YHWH.

[Lightenup]

t8,
So how many beings were called YHWH? One or two in that verse?

[Proclaimer]

How many Abrahams?

‘and Abraham took Ishmael his son,
and all that were born in his house,
and all that were bought with his money,
every male among the men of the house of Abraham’

How many Moses's are there?

‘and it was in the coming down of Moses from mount Sinai
and two tables of testimony in the hand of Moses’

How many priests

‘and of the oil the priest shall pour on the left palm of the priest’

How many Solomons?

‘then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel,
all the heads of the tribes,
the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel,
unto king Solomon’

How many Spirits of God?

‘and a spirit lifted me up
and brought me to Chaldea to the captivity in vision
by the spirit of God’

I don't require an answer to these. Just making a valid point.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,22:03)

t8, So how many beings were called YHWH? One or two in that verse?

See my above post.

One YHWH just as there is one Solomon.

[Lightenup]

But how many different beings are called YHWH in that verse, t8?

Your examples don't apply here.

[Proclaimer]

LU, your post is pathetic.

So I will give you an equal answer.

The examples do apply here.

[Lightenup]

So, you are saying that there are two beings who are both named the one YHWH? Or are you saying that one YHWH rained down fire and brimstone from the one YHWH in heaven?

Btw, if my answer is pathetic and I chose the same option as you, what does that make your answer?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 17 2012,01:59)

Well, if you are referring to YHWH the Father, then choice 1 is what I believe. There is only one YHWH the Father. Now a question for you: How many beings are called YHWH in this verse: Gen 19:24 Then YHWH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YHWH out of the heavens. 1) one 2) two

Why don't you just say option one or option two. The choice 2 is what I believe. Now its your turn  

[Proclaimer]

Did I not say that I choose 1.
And yes this response is lacking,

Quote

Your examples don't apply here.

What sort of answer is that. It is not an answer. And shows you lack of understanding in the whole subject. It is actually that bad an answer that it is humourous. The only response I can give to that answer is to laugh and laugh I have.

Anyone could say that to anything and it wouldn't mean anything.

My earlier post was concise and clear enough. I choose option 1 and for the same reasons that there was 1 in those other examples I gave. Not too hard LU. But if that is too hard for you to understand, then you are out of your depth in this subject and you should humbly bow out at this point.

[Proclaimer]

So you admit clearly and publicly say that there are 2 YHWHs.

You have broken the most important commandment of the 10 or so commandments that Moses gave.

Let's put John 17:3 in English with some relevant Hebrew words for you:
And  this  is  everlasting  life,  that  they should  know You, the only true Elohim, and Yahshua Messiah whom You have sent.

Let's put Mark 12:29 in English with some relevant Hebrew words for you:
Hear, O Yisra, el, YHWH our Elohim, YHWH is one.

YHWH continually reminded his people to not take up the beliefs of the heathen. This is what you are doing by declaring two YHWHs. You have gone against the most important commandment of the 10 or so commandments and seem free to wander into territory that the heathens have already paved a path.

I now have a must answer question. Which of the two is closer to what you believe:

1) Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim IS TWO.
2) Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim is ONE.

You see LU. If there are 2 YHWHs or 2 Elohims then why is the word YHWHs or Elohims not in scripture when describing such. And why is YHWH called him and not them.

You have seriously erred in your ways. Jesus taught us how important this commandment was. I take him seriously whereas you seem to ignore what he says when it suits.

[Lightenup]

2) Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim is ONE.

Btw, Elohim is a plural word so no need to add an s to it.

YHWH is called 'him' and not 'them' because it is the name of a unity in that case.

The church is called a 'she' and not a them for the same reason although it too has more than one member.

Yahweh our Elohim is ONE…one what? It doesn't say one person/being specifically.

Now a question for you, remembering that the Son is a theos…how many theos are on the throne in this verse:

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

1) one
2) two

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 17 2012,21:57)

Did I not say that I choose 1. And yes this response is lacking, Quote Your examples don't apply here. What sort of answer is that. It is not an answer. And shows you lack of understanding in the whole subject. It is actually that bad an answer that it is humourous. The only response I can give to that answer is to laugh and laugh I have. Anyone could say that to anything and it wouldn't mean anything. My earlier post was concise and clear enough. I choose option 1 and for the same reasons that there was 1 in those other examples I gave. Not too hard LU. But if that is too hard for you to understand, then you are out of your depth in this subject and you should humbly bow out at this point.

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What sort of answer is that. It is not an answer. And shows you lack of understanding in the whole subject. It is actually that bad an answer that it is humourous. The only response I can give to that answer is to laugh and laugh I have.

It wasn't an answer to your question. It was a response to your answer to my question. The examples of Moses, etc. were not comparable to the situation that you were asked about, i.e. the verse was not about the 'heaven OF YHWH' but the YHWH in heaven.

Now, please clarify if you believe that each mention of the word YHWH in the Gen 19 verse is only referring to one being and not two. Your answer was that it was one YHWH and my question was not how many YHWH's were called YHWH's but how many 'beings' were called YHWH's.

[Lightenup]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYzeDcy2iQ&list=UUNJkH2Q1q8_zp7LzRGUpnTw&index=33&feature=plcp

Perhaps you might take him more seriously.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,09:15)

2) Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim is ONE. Btw, Elohim is a plural word so no need to add an s to it. YHWH is called 'him' and not 'them' because it is the name of a unity in that case. The church is called a 'she' and not a them for the same reason although it too has more than one member. Yahweh our Elohim is ONE…one what? It doesn't say one person/being specifically. Now a question for you, remembering that the Son is a theos…how many theos are on the throne in this verse: Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 1) one 2) two

Can you answer that, t8??

[Lightenup]

t8,
You have a couple of questions that you have not answered. Keep in mind that this is the hot seat and if you avoid questions you get a tile unless you are above your own rules

Here are the questions you haven't answered that I am asking you to answer:

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Now, please clarify if you believe that each mention of the word YHWH in the Gen 19 verse is only referring to one being and not two. Your answer was that it was one YHWH and my question was not how many YHWH's were called YHWH's but how many 'beings' were called YHWH's.

Quote

Now a question for you, remembering that the Son is a theos…how many theos are on the throne in this verse: Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 1) one 2) two

[Proclaimer]

Hi Kathi. Will answer. I will knock off a couple of easy ones first and then give some thought as to what you are asking.

[Author]

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