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Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2013,16:50) That's silly. If I call you “t8 our moderator” I am still calling you t8. Jehovah has many descriptives given to Him as His name. Tell me which ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Yet you still ignore the elephant in the room.Men of God also have names with the word Yah in it.
That alone is good enough to show that your idea is bias and not a solid argument. Isaiah for example. Was he God.
Obviously having God's name in your name doesn't make you God. Amazing that you cannot see this obvious fact. It is called blindness for a reason I suppose.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2013,17:15) The 'Son of God', according to you = 'another god'.
That is what you keep saying, but I have said to you in more than one way that many are legitimately called theos as scripture says. Jesus even said, “ye are theos”, thus being called theos is not the same as being called the one true Theos or Most High Theos.You need a reality check because what I say is clearly in scripture. I only point it out and yet you want to argue its existence away. You are going beyond the realm of obvious truth and deeper into delusion if you think scripture doesn't use theos in ways outside of YHWH and the Most High God.
Just admit that this is true because it is written. If you cannot, then you are just showing how deluded you are for all to see.
And if I accept this fact and accept that Greek uses this word in the ways it does, then I am synced to this reality and that is no licence to misrepresent my faith and say that I am worshipping two Gods as you say. No, that is what you do. One the Most High God, 2 the begotten God. That is 2 Gods that you worship. See the very thing you are trying to accuse me of is the very thing that you plainly do in broad daylight for all to see. This is a big fail Kathi. You have lost this point too.
First remove the log from your eye Kathi, then you will be able to see clearly that I believe that there is ONE God the Father and that Jesus is his son and the messiah and that in his name (Yeshua) do I have salvation.
Likewise I believe that there is one who is made Lord by God. But I am not that narrow minded as to say that other lords do not exist. Of course they do. But Christ is Lord of all except God the Father. So under God, he is the highest lord because he was appointed by God to have all things under his feet. Thus all other lords cannot compare to his authority and thus are irrelevant to Believers in as far as their faith goes and spiritual truths. But if Believers have a landlord, then I suggest that they acknowledge them rather than ignore them because if you do that, you will be kicked out of your home.
Seriously Kathi, if I had lost nearly every point that I brought up as you have, I would seriously be considering my doctrine by now. But I suspect that you do not do this because you are running on emotions and reality and truth has disappeared for you.
Are you not concerned for your soul? Is your pride worth more than your soul? Is God's truth a tool that you can manipulate for your own preferences?
Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,23:10) Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2013,16:50) That's silly. If I call you “t8 our moderator” I am still calling you t8. Jehovah has many descriptives given to Him as His name. Tell me which ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Yet you still ignore the elephant in the room.Men of God also have names with the word Yah in it.
That alone is good enough to show that your idea is bias and not a solid argument. Isaiah for example. Was he God.
Obviously having God's name in your name doesn't make you God. Amazing that you cannot see this obvious fact. It is called blindness for a reason I suppose.
t8,
Men of God had a form of God's name within their one word name and even angels like Gabriel. The 'el' is one of God's name.
Also see Elijah:
Eliyyah: “Yah is God,” a well-known prophet of Isr., also three other Isr.
Elijah has 'yah' within their one word name.Zephaniah:
Tsephanyah or Tsephanyahu: “Yah has treasured,” four Israelites
Also see 'yah' is in his one word name.Hezekiah:
Chizqiyyah or Chizqiyyahu or Yechizqiyyah or Yechizqiyyahu: “Yah has strengthened,” a king of Judah, also several other Isr.
Again, see the 'yah' is in his one word name.Amariah:
Amaryahu or Amaryah: “Yah has promised,” the name of several Israelites
We see the 'yah' is in his one word name also.BUT
All of those that I gave you in this quoted post are compound names. This is the difference.
The men of God had God's name IN their name. The righteous branch of David has God's name AS His name.
Is the elephant sitting on you or what?
Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,23:20) Seriously Kathi, if I had lost nearly every point that I brought up as you have, I would seriously be considering my doctrine by now. But I suspect that you do not do this because you are running on emotions and reality and truth has disappeared for you. Are you not concerned for your soul? Is your pride worth more than your soul? Is God's truth a tool that you can manipulate for your own preferences?
You humor yourself. You have lost nearly every point. You need to read over this thread.*Note to elephant, “Get off of t8, you are squashing out his ability to see truth, seriously, his eyes are about to pop out.”
Btw, if I were running on 'emotions' as you think (another proof of a lack of discernment), I would not be overcoming them regularly and getting on HN to listen to more of your crazy insults. Truthfully, I have to put on my armor to have the courage to come here night after night to confront your demon monkeys on your back as well as others. This is not my preferred past time. HN is not a kind place. HN can be very mean and degrading and combative…none of which I enjoy. I am not here because I enjoy this but because I am called to be courageous in the Lord. Occasionally I do find some joy and encouragement here but usually that is not the case. I could belong to one of the many Christian boards on here and be regularly agreed with and high five'd but I'm not one to just look for warm fuzzy feelings. I am wanting to become a stronger warrior for the LORD and know truth.
Okay that proves my point that a self-deluded person or a person whom God hands over to delusion is deluded because they want to be. And nothing not even truth will convince them otherwise.
It reminds me of that parable that concluded that even if a man was to rise from the dead and tell them to avoid that horrible place, they still wouldn't believe.
If light, reason, scripture, logic, self-evidence, and wisdom doesn't work for you Kathi, then I am afraid that I should just leave you in your delusion.
It reminds me of a time when a man tried to sell me a padlock when I was in India many years ago. He followed me for what seemed like an hour and hounded me to buy it. So I decided to take a look and I unlocked it with my bare hands and said what good is this to me if I can do that. He replied that it was unbreakable without the key to which I pulled it apart again right before his eyes. And even with that proof he was still insistent that it was unbreakable. It was like he thought he could convince me that reality wasn't real and that his word was reality. Nevertheless, I felt sorry for the man and bought the padlock.
I never had this happen to me again until I debated with you. It feels to me like the same thing. If I break the padlock on your doctrine open showing it's weakness, you insist that it is unbreakable even when I can break it open whenever I want right before your eyes. But unlike that man, I will not buy your padlock because it would be more destructive to agree with your delusion and make you feel better than to tell you the truth that it is false and you need to change.
I truly pity those in delusion, but I believe that they deserve to be deluded because God is just and it is God that hands people over to delusion. Probably has something to do with you reap what they sow. If you sow lies you will reap lies.
Conclusion:
t8 believes that there is one God the Father and that the Father made Jesus Christ Lord and saviour. t8 also believes that the word elohim and theos have different applications depending on context and sentence structure.
Kathi believes in two Gods. She believes in the only true God who is the Father (as I do), but she also believes in a second God, the Begotten God. Further she believes that these 2 Gods are one in purpose and spirit and in this way they become YHWH, that is YHWH the Father and YHWH the son.
This is what we believe and this is what this debate has clearly shown.
It is now up to the reader to believe the following:
1) That both of us have the wrong ideas.
2) That t8 is correct, that indeed there is one God the Father and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ.
3) That Kathi is correct, that there are two Gods, one God the Father who is the only true God and one begotten God the son.There we have it folks. I shall do a write up in the Debate Log at the top of this forum.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 23 2013,21:50) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,21:17) Quote (Lightenup @ May 23 2013,21:26) Btw, you need to learn about coming in the name of another…it is about authority. That verse in John 5 has nothing to do with Jesus getting named the Father's name. The verse that tells us that Jesus' name is the same as the Father's is in John 17, and is first played out in the OT where Jesus is called Jehovah. Believers will be calling Him Jehovah our Righteousness.
But not YHWH.
That's silly. If I call you “t8 our moderator” I am still calling you t8.Jehovah has many descriptives given to Him as His name. Tell me which ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Not so fast, t8. Please note that you did not answer this question:Tell me which one/ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)Also, this debate is not over just because you are threatened. The t8 doctrine test is yet to come…I'll bet the readers will be enlightened by that.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:55) Not so fast, t8. Please note that you did not answer this question: Tell me which one/ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Don't know. You might as well tell me and save some time.Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:58) Also, this debate is not over just because you are threatened. The t8 doctrine test is yet to come…I'll bet the readers will be enlightened by that.
Ha ha. Bring it on. Those are fighting words.
Here you go t8…this is what I have been saying all along:
http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/WordChapter.pdfQuote (t8 @ May 25 2013,02:04) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:55) Not so fast, t8. Please note that you did not answer this question: Tell me which one/ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Don't know. You might as well tell me and save some time.
They are all Jehovah! The fact that you did not know this is telling!Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,23:07) The question was, “did you know before he mentioned it”?
And I answered your question with a yes!Quote (t8 @ May 25 2013,02:05) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:58) Also, this debate is not over just because you are threatened. The t8 doctrine test is yet to come…I'll bet the readers will be enlightened by that.
Ha ha. Bring it on. Those are fighting words.
I will!!
Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2013,19:18) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,23:07) The question was, “did you know before he mentioned it”?
And I answered your question with a yes!
Congrats. I didn't. Then again, I wasn't closely following the debate either.Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2013,19:17) Quote (t8 @ May 25 2013,02:04) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:55) Not so fast, t8. Please note that you did not answer this question: Tell me which one/ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Don't know. You might as well tell me and save some time.
They are all Jehovah! The fact that you did not know this is telling!
It tells nothing as far as your agenda is concerned.There are many humans with the name Yah or YHWH in it. That is a fact and this puts your point into disrepute. You say that Jesus is God because he has a name with YHWH in it, but I pointed out other names that do the same such as Isaiah.
This clearly proves your point is biased. Clearly if someone else believed that Isaiah was YHWH, then they could use your argument to support that just as you have with Jesus. There would be no difference.
This is what is telling Kathi. You are biased and I know that bias and truth are not the same thing.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2013,19:20) Quote (t8 @ May 25 2013,02:05) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:58) Also, this debate is not over just because you are threatened. The t8 doctrine test is yet to come…I'll bet the readers will be enlightened by that.
Ha ha. Bring it on. Those are fighting words.
I will!!
We will see. So far you have been knocked out in every round. I look forward to your new found confidence.
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