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Quote (t8 @ July 29 2012,00:34) Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2012,14:48) Are you and your wife a binity or a unity? What is the difference in your opinion or are they the same?
A unity of course.Now let's look at Paul's writing.
For US there is one God the Father.
Now let's apply that to your figurative argument here.
There is one Man the husband. In other words a husband and wife are not THE Man because you cannot say there is one Man the husband and wife. Not that is two adams/man. Not one.
Likewise the Father and Son are not THE God. The Father is.
t8,
Why is it that you and your wife are a unity and not a binity or are you both a unity as well as a binity? Please answer this specific question or I will keep bringing it up.Quote Now let's look at Paul's writing. For US there is one God the Father.
Is that really what Paul says or does it stop short of what he says? Here is what Paul said as who is for US:
1 Cor 8:6
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.Now, t8, tell me how many persons are for us that are our one God and our one Lord?
Please answer these bolded questions, t8, thanks.
Quote Now let's apply that to your figurative argument here. There is one Man the husband. In other words a husband and wife are not THE Man because you cannot say there is one Man the husband and wife. Not that is two adams/man. Not one.
Likewise the Father and Son are not THE God. The Father is.
In the context of 1 Cor 8:6, I understand that it is saying that the one God is the Father. It is not saying that the one God is the Father and the Son. However, it does call Jesus our one Lord and likewise, it is not saying that the Father is our one Lord. It is also not saying that the one Lord is the Father and the Son. So, I think you reflect by your application that you do not understand what I am saying.
I am saying that for us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus…Lord as in YHWH the Messiah.
It seems that the intent of this passage is to tell us who our God and Lord are. It is not just the Father but the Father as God and the Son as Lord. Together THEY are our God and our Lord. I further believe that this one God and one Lord make up our two person supreme authority. Please note that I did not say that they make up our two person supreme authorities but singular, as…authority.
Quote (t8 @ July 29 2012,01:01) Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2012,14:48) 1 Cor 8:6
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.
kathi.Jesus is lord. It was God that made him lord. Yet it doesn't really need an explanation that Jesus is lord, but not lord of the one who made him lord.
Same with Pharaoh and Joseph. The Pharaoh effectively made Joseph lord of his empire, but not lord over Pharaoh himself.
So you could say that Pharaoh was lord and so was Joseph and yet who in their right mind would argue that they were the same being because they were both referred to as lord.
If you have ever rented a house you had a landlord, and there are lords to this day in The House of Lords which is the upper house of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
Lord means ruler or authority and who would argue that if Jesus was made lord by the ultimate authority God, then would that make him God. Of course not.
We know for example that God has handed all things to Jesus and when they all come under his feet, then he hands it all to God because at that point all is now under the Kingdom, and God can indwell all. When you read that particular scripture is clearly states that this does not include God himself.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.So your idea of using the word lord to prove that someone is God is misguided.
t8
you said:Quote Jesus is lord. It was God that made him lord. Yet it doesn't really need an explanation that Jesus is lord, but not lord of the one who made him lord. Jesus is theos. Who made Him theos? And when did that happen?
When did God make him lord, as you say?
And, just for the record, I am not saying that Jesus is lord of the Father. I am saying that Jesus is the one Lord in our two person supreme authority composed of one God and one Lord.
Quote So your idea of using the word lord to prove that someone is God is misguided. I am not using the word lord to prove that someone is God. I am using the fact that the only begotten God is the one Lord part of our two person supreme authority.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2012,17:28) Why is it that you and your wife are a unity and not a binity or are you both a unity as well as a binity?
We are separate persons who choose to be united in spirit and flesh. We are not one being with 2 persons.A Binity is a being made up of 2 persons just as a Trinity is being made of 3 persons.
So I am in unity with my wife.
We can be in unity with God.
We can be in unity with Jesus.
We can be in unity with each other.Trying to make these unities to be a Trinity or Binity is a step too far.
Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2012,17:28) 1 Cor 8:6
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.Now, t8, tell me how many persons are for us that are our one God and our one Lord?
It doesn't say one LORD Jehovah Yeshua.There is one who is God, that is the Father.
There is one who is Lord (Lord of God's creation) and that is Jesus.
There is one who is your landlord if you rent a house.But Jesus can be lord of your landlord just as God is lord over Jesus Christ.
The one God who is the Father, MADE Jesus Christ to be lord of his creation.
The one who gives is greater than the one who receives.One God.
One Lord.This does not negate landlords, nor the fact that God is over Jesus.
You want to read this as saying, one God Jesus Christ.
But even if you did that, it would be to the detriment of the Father.Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2012,17:43) Jesus is theos. Who made Him theos? And when did that happen? When did God make him lord, as you say?
It is enough to say as scripture says that God made him Lord. I won't go any further than the scripture so as to not create another path of inquiry. We already have enough to talk about.Jesus, men, angels are also theos. It is God the Father who does this. Theos can be applied to those who carry God's authority.
Kathi, I have a couple of must-answer questions in bold below.
I say THE God is exclusively THE Father.
You say that God is the Father and Son.Excluding all instances of God/theos that is applied to men, angels, Satan, idols, etc, when the word God is mentioned in scripture, whose understanding breaks the scripture and whose does not.
e.g., For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
t8: For the Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
kathi: For the Father and Son so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….Who is right in the example above.
Who one is right in all other God scriptures excluding as I said other identities such as angels and men etc.For assistance in answering the second question, here is a page that lists a number of random scriptures with the world God in them. You can apply your understanding of God to see if your understanding works or breaks these scriptures.
https://heavennet.net/writings/100-indisputable-proof-verses/I look forward to your honest answers.
And I should mention that should any of us fail to answer a question or purposefully avoid answering a question, then because such activity nullifies the power that the Hot Seat Forum has, the result should be that discussion opens up for others so they can voice their disgust. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Quote (t8 @ July 31 2012,18:52) Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2012,17:28) Why is it that you and your wife are a unity and not a binity or are you both a unity as well as a binity?
We are separate persons who choose to be united in spirit and flesh. We are not one being with 2 persons.A Binity is a being made up of 2 persons just as a Trinity is being made of 3 persons.
So I am in unity with my wife.
We can be in unity with God.
We can be in unity with Jesus.
We can be in unity with each other.Trying to make these unities to be a Trinity or Binity is a step too far.
t8,
If a binity is a being made up of two persons, then why do you call what I am saying, a binity. I never said anything about one being made up of two persons. I speak of two beings in unity together as one supreme authority with common eternal nature.Please acknowledge this before I can go farther with you.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,14:12) Quote (t8 @ July 31 2012,18:52) Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2012,17:28) Why is it that you and your wife are a unity and not a binity or are you both a unity as well as a binity?
We are separate persons who choose to be united in spirit and flesh. We are not one being with 2 persons.A Binity is a being made up of 2 persons just as a Trinity is being made of 3 persons.
So I am in unity with my wife.
We can be in unity with God.
We can be in unity with Jesus.
We can be in unity with each other.Trying to make these unities to be a Trinity or Binity is a step too far.
t8,
If a binity is a being made up of two persons, then why do you call what I am saying, a binity. I never said anything about one being made up of two persons. I speak of two beings in unity together as one supreme authority with common eternal nature.Please acknowledge this before I can go farther with you.
In that case, you deny that God is a being. You deny that he is a HE. Your God is 2 beings, thus you break the first commandment that God is one, because you say that he is two.t8,
you said:Quote
It doesn't say one LORD Jehovah Yeshua.Yes it does…you are in denial my friend. See the Aramaic Bible of Plain English on the Bible.cc site here:
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-6.htmThere are several more examples of the Aramaic manuscripts clearly calling Jesus the “LORD Jehovah Yeshua.” Would you like to see them?
t8,
Where does the Bible say that He is one being? A unity takes singular personal pronouns, there are several examples, the church is a 'she' for example.t8
you said:Quote e.g., For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
t8: For the Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
kathi: For the Father and Son so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….Who is right in the example above.
But Kathi wouldn't say that. I have said over and over that context tells us if “God” or “Jehovah” or “Lord” mean one of the persons within the unity or the unity in general.
I would say the exact same thing as you there, t8.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,14:17) t8,
Where does the Bible say that He is one being? A unity takes singular personal pronouns, there are several examples, the church is a 'she' for example.
For us there is one God the Father.
If you consider the Father is a being, then yes he is one being.If you prefer I will use the word identity.
The Father is one identity. No one else is the Heavenly Father.
For US there is one God, the Father.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,14:23) t8
you said:Quote e.g., For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
t8: For the Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
kathi: For the Father and Son so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….Who is right in the example above.
But Kathi wouldn't say that. I have said over and over that context tells us if “God” or “Jehovah” or “Lord” mean one of the persons within the unity or the unity in general.
I would say the exact same thing as you there, t8.
Please answer those 2 questions.Do not be afraid to answer them.
If you are right you have nothing to fear by being honest.
If we take say 10 random scriptures with the word GOd in them, whose understanding will break the verses and whose will not.
Please answer. Feel free to take 10 random verses from the NT using biblegateway.com or other service.
Kathi, you clearly teach that God is two.
That is sad. And you do not even try to deny it.
Even though you are wrong, at least you are honest about this and are not being deceptive.I believe that God is one. He is exclusively the Father.
You believe that God is two. They are the Father and the Son.When we push very hard in the wrong direction, God can eventually allow us to go there and believe the deception as payment for rejecting the truth.
The first commandment is the most important.
And what is the outcome of those who break the commandments with no repentance.Quote (t8 @ July 31 2012,20:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2012,14:17) t8,
Where does the Bible say that He is one being? A unity takes singular personal pronouns, there are several examples, the church is a 'she' for example.
For us there is one God the Father.
If you consider the Father is a being, then yes he is one being.If you prefer I will use the word identity.
The Father is one identity. No one else is the Heavenly Father.
For US there is one God, the Father.
t8,
How many beings/identities are for us as God and Lord in 1 Cor 8:6?Quote (Lightenup @ July 31 2012,19:16) t8,
you said:Quote
It doesn't say one LORD Jehovah Yeshua.Yes it does…you are in denial my friend. See the Aramaic Bible of Plain English on the Bible.cc site here:
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/8-6.htmThere are several more examples of the Aramaic manuscripts clearly calling Jesus the “LORD Jehovah Yeshua.” Would you like to see them?
t8,
Did you look at the link and see that the translation that I specified, Jesus is called the LORD Jehovah Yeshua?Would you like to see the many other examples of the same thing? IF you don't then I question your desire to learn. Would you be willing to look at them??
Please answer my 2 questions.
As for your last question, there is one who is God and the other who is Lord.
There are 2 being referred to. God and Lord.
The Father is God and Jesus is Lord.One person/identity per title.
Quote (t8 @ July 31 2012,20:37) Please answer my 2 questions. As for your last question, there is one who is God and the other who is Lord.
There are 2 being referred to. God and Lord.
The Father is God and Jesus is Lord.One person/identity per title.
Yes, t8, I agree that Paul is teaching that TWO BEINGS are for us as God and Lord and that the Father is God and Jesus is Lord.This is the foundational belief…there are TWO persons who are our God and Lord.
I'm not sure what two questions that you are referring to. Would you please bump them or specify them again?
t8,
you said:Quote Kathi, you clearly teach that God is two. I teach that our God and Lord are two. The Lord is the only begotten God.
Quote (t8 @ July 31 2012,19:11) Kathi, I have a couple of must-answer questions in bold below. I say THE God is exclusively THE Father.
You say that God is the Father and Son.Excluding all instances of God/theos that is applied to men, angels, Satan, idols, etc, when the word God is mentioned in scripture, whose understanding breaks the scripture and whose does not.
e.g., For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
t8: For the Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….
kathi: For the Father and Son so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….Who is right in the example above.
Who one is right in all other God scriptures excluding as I said other identities such as angels and men etc.For assistance in answering the second question, here is a page that lists a number of random scriptures with the world God in them. You can apply your understanding of God to see if your understanding works or breaks these scriptures.
https://heavennet.net/writings/100-indisputable-proof-verses/I look forward to your honest answers.
And I should mention that should any of us fail to answer a question or purposefully avoid answering a question, then because such activity nullifies the power that the Hot Seat Forum has, the result should be that discussion opens up for others so they can voice their disgust. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Ok t8, I found your two questions.I commented on the first one by saying that I would not say what you assumed I would say but would say the same as you, therefore we are in agreement here.
Number 2 question:
Quote Who one is right in all other God scriptures excluding as I said other identities such as angels and men etc. Since you assumed me incorrectly in the first question, then you show that you do not understand me when I say that context tells us if the titles “God, YHWH/Jehovah, LORD, or Lord” means the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or the unity in general. I will go through all your list and tell you who I think is being referred to. Bring 'em on! Hopefully that will put an end to your confusion and realize that your 'test' is faulty. I will start this probably in the next post.
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