Proclaimer vs Lightenup

[Lightenup]

t8? Please answer the previous post, thx.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2013,10:06)

Do you worship the Son as the mighty god? Do you worship the Son as the everlasting father? Do you worship the Son as the prince of peace? Do you worship the Son as the Lord of lords? Do you worship the Son as the Lord of all? Do you worship the Son as the Word of God? Do you worship the Son as the Eternal High Priest? Do you worship the Son as the First and the Last? Do you worship the Son as the Alpha and Omega? Do you worship the Son as the one in whose name all things were done by the apostles? Do you worship the Son as the Root and the Shoot of Jesse? Do you worship the Son as the one through whom all things were made? Do you worship the Son as the Lord Savior of all? Do you worship the Son as the author of eternal life? Please answer each question with a yes, no or not sure. Thanks.

How annoying, I lost my very long answer. Perhaps God doesn't want me wasting my time with you or anyone else. I will certainly give you one question at a time though. Remember that there is plenty of time to cover everything because there is no time limit on this topic.

Anyway I will try and repeat what I said, but it will be more concise.

I repeated that I worship Jesus as the son of God and the Lamb of God and recognise that he is much more than that of course, including what you have listed. Although I would need to check everything you listed to verify if I agree with all.

I mentioned that Jesus is a high priest and so were other men. So if I was to worship Jesus because of that, then I would have to worship other men too. Even though Jesus is higher, there are things that I respect, honour, and acknowledge about Jesus, but I worship him as the son of God and Lamb of God as no other is like him in that respect and this is truly why we should worship him. So if all your points are true, then of course the sum total of all that he is is worthy of our respect, honour and worship. But some points on their own may not be enough as you could then make the argument that we should also worship men who have similar ministries.

So for the sake of precious time and giving a precise answer to every question, please one question at a time. Each point needs research and a couple of paragraphs or more, so I will not for that reason answer multiple questions in one go. I have a limit on how much time I spend with you answering questions.

I hope you can respect that, and I will return the favour by asking one question at a time too.

[Proclaimer]

I guess it is time that I asked you a question.

Regarding this scripture:

Genesis 2:21
And LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one (echad) of his ribs.

Is the word echad being used here to denote one in number or one as in unity?

If you answer one in number, then that means you believe it is possible for 'echad' to mean one numerically. Based on that, I will ask another question.

Besides your answer, you can ask a question too, and I will reply accordingly.

[Lightenup]

Yes, I respect your one question at a time plan.
My answer:
One in number.

My question:
Can you speak to me respectfully even if you don't agree with me from here on out?

[Proclaimer]

I pull arguments apart and inject humour into it as it is a good tool that highlights the point I am making. Because I believe we should hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught in the beginning, so that we can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

When I refute that might not be considered respectful to the person who is being refuted, but it is a fact of life that lies will be refuted. The best way to avoid being refuted is to teach that which will stand forever.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,16:30)

My answer: One in number.

Good. So you can at least see that this word 'echad' can mean one in number. I will direct further questions to you regarding the meaning of 'echad' which is where your house of cards sits at the moment.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Your so called humor is what others call arrogant, self-exalting and hurtful to others. Maybe you were brought up with your authority thinking he was being humorous and you are just reflecting that but what kind of impression has that left you with regarding him?

I am asking you to leave out what you call 'humor' because to me, it makes your words very ineffective and you look like an a** and not a Christian at all.

[Lightenup]

So, my next question to you in light of my last post is…can you please leave off derogatory comments, humorous or otherwise, and just present your facts because your derogatory comments/humor is not helping me see any thing you say as from God?

[Lightenup]

Bump for t8.

[Proclaimer]

That feeling you get Kathi is not the humour so much as the refutation. The best way to avoid being refuted is to teach truth. Being refuted is serious business. Even using humour to good effect in a refutation is still serious business.

Titus 1:9: He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

You don't have the right to ask me not to refute or to use humour. I will stick with both. I encourage truth and discourage false doctrine. That is what I do.

[Lightenup]

No, t8, it is the degrading so-called humor that turns me off…I should know better than you as to what is turning me off. I do feel that I have a right to call you to a higher standard but you have every right to refuse even though it really causes you to be very ineffective in reflecting the character of Jesus, imo. If you feel that you have to add degrading humor to your so-called defense, it is because your defense cannot stand on its own and you do it to hide that fact.

Quote

I encourage truth and discourage false doctrine. That is what I do.

If this is what you think you are doing you are wrong. I see you as one who discourages truth in favor of leaning on your own limited perception. Maybe if you take off the mask you might see better.  

Just sayin'.

Now, do you have any other questions for me? It's your turn.

[Proclaimer]

Kathi, I don't care if my method turns you off. My mission is not about turning people on.
It is to encourage the truth and refute lies.

What side people fall on here is up to them.

[Lightenup]

And your next question is?

[Lightenup]

Ok, while you think of another question, answer this:

Does a sentence require a subject AND a verb in New Zealand?

Quote

2. Christ according to the flesh who is over all. God be blessed to the ages. Amen.

This second part does not have a verb. The word 'be' is not in the Greek and the word 'blessed' is an adjective, not a verb. You struck out with that one, Sorry!

[Proclaimer]

Kathi, it makes perfect sense in English. God bless.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 09 2013,09:16)

Does a sentence require a subject AND a verb in New Zealand?

We have 3 official languages. One of them is non-verbal.

[Proclaimer]

The word 'echad, “one,” is used in the Jewish Scriptures in either a compound or absolute sense. We both know that. The real question is about Deuteronomy 6:4. Is the Lord our God one in a compound or absolute sense.

Let's look at 2 examples that represent these different applications.

Genesis 1:5
“And there was evening and there was morning, one day,”

Genesis 2:24
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh,”

So the first example demonstrates absolute one and the second is a united one.

So what of Deuteronomy 6:4? Well let's look at something here before dissecting that scripture. What did the Jews believe it meant. They believed and believe that it means that the Lord our God is one in the absolute sense, i.e., in the same way that Genesis 1:5 uses the word. This is why you do not see them embracing the Trinity or any other version of which there are many.

You would have us believe that the greatest commandment is asking us to believe that the Lord thy God is united. Tell me why that is the greatest commandment to hold to. That is about as relevant as saying that the most important thing to believe is “the Lord thy God is peace”.

When you think about it, it makes more sense on the outset that it is saying that he is one in the absolute sense because by reference of that, it is implied that no one else can be that God and thus to put another in that place is an idol or false God. When you think about it, it says “You shall have no other God before me”.

So there you have it. It is most likely given that evidence to mean one in the absolute sense.

Further, when we look at verses like 2 Samuel 13:30
“Absolom has slain all the king's sons, and there is not one of them left”;

Exodus 9:7
“There did not die of the cattle of Israel even one”;

2 Samuel 17:12
“And of all the men that are with him we will not leave so much as one

we can see that echad means absolute one to the point of meaning one alone. Is this not what we see in the commandments regarding the Lord our God? Yes it is.

“Thou shalt have no other Gods before me”.

So YHWH is one God in the absolute sense and HE ALONE IS GOD.

Your view is just that, your view. It is not how the Jews see God and yet you claim to have respect for the Hebrew Bible, and yet they do not view God as you do.

It would pay to listen to those who read the Hebrew Bible and speak Hebrew rather than following Trinitarians and then putting your own spin on their view.

Lastly, I would like to point out that is is written that anyone who breaks the commandments and teaches others to do so, will be considered least in the Kingdom of God. And that would be the best case scenario because Commandment breakers face the real possibility of the Lake of Fire.

My advice to you is to sober up in this late hour.

[Proclaimer]

Okay after that sermon, I have a question for you.

Regarding YHWH, is HE ALONE the Most High God?

Yes
No
Don't know.

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2013,15:46)

Kathi, it makes perfect sense in English. God bless.

If you prefer compromised translations! Why would someone prefer the mistranslation over the accurate translation unless they had a personal doctrine that was better suited to the mistranslation? Truth stands on its own, when grammar, tenses and words are changed, there should be a red flag but instead there is a warm embrace by you??

Maybe you think God made a mistake in forgetting to put 'be' in the Greek and made 'blessed' an adjective instead of a verb. Good thing translators take creative license to help you out there by adding words and completely changing words from adjectives to verbs.

Does God really bless mistranslation/mishandling of His Word?

I'll stick to the original.

#thankful4Greekclass&interlinears

[Proclaimer]

http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/11-31.htm

2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ–He who is blessed throughout the Ages, knows that I am speaking the truth.

The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.

I agree with Paul. It is the Father, and I am speaking the truth.

[Author]

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