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The format for this Hot Seat discussion is one question at a time. I will start and kerwin will be able to ask a question only if he successfully answers my question. I in turn have to successfully answer any of his questions. If the question is reasonable and not answered, this will result in the member being banned from the forums until such time the question is answered. If the question is a yes/no question then you have to answer in that manner. Yes, No, I don’t no are sufficient answers.
If the question is a non-question like “have you stopped robbing banks” then the non-question can be challenged as such. The Admin will step in at that point and deem whether the question is a fair one or not.
This discussion is about when Jesus became the messiah. Was he born the messiah or did he become the messiah later on. My stance is that he was born the messiah, so I will start with my first question. If kerwin answers yes/no/I don’t know, then he can provide an explanation as to why he answered that way and can ask me a question if he wants after that.
Please stick to the topic and this is only for myself and kerwin unless we both agree to open the discussion up to others.
Did the angel of God speak the truth and message of God about Jesus when he declared:
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”?
Yes or no. Please answer with Yes or no, or I don’t know.
You can explain your answer if you want in the next post, but it must start with one of these reasonable answers.
@t8,
Did God foreknow Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God?
Yes or no. Please answer with Yes or no, or I don’t know.
You can explain your answer if you want in the next post, but it must start with one of these reasonable answers.
t8,
Agreed!
Were the Jews taught the Anointed would come?
It appears so. Many were expecting the messiah by the look of it. Even the women at the well said:
The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he,[d] the one who is speaking to you.”
and:
The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
The Birth of the messiah was proclaimed by angel and shepherds.
The Shepherds and the Angels
8 In that region there were shepherds living in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for see—I am bringing you good news of great joy for all the people: 11 to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign for you: you will find a child wrapped in bands of cloth and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace among those whom he favors!”15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us.” 16 So they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the child lying in the manger. 17 When they saw this, they made known what had been told them about this child; 18 and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds told them. 19 But Mary treasured all these words and pondered them in her heart. 20 The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.
Kerwin, if you were one of these shepherds, then you may have doubted the angel. If not, then why doubt the angel now? What is the difference?
t8 asked:
Did the angel of God speak the truth and message of God about Jesus when he declared:
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”?kerwin replied:
Yes,t8 asked:
So Jesus was born the messiah?kerwin replied:
No…Conclusion. Kerwin speaks with forked tongue.
He says that the angel was correct when he said “today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior“.
He also admitted that the angel was correct when he said: “who is the Messiah, the Lord“.
But then he opposes the angel blatantly by saying no to Jesus was born the messiah with this lame excuse as if it somehow allows him to contradict himself:as you are well aware the same words can mean different things in different contexts..
Kerwin is a double minded man. He states one thing and opposes it straight after. He agrees with one view to make himself look correct, but refuses to agree with it in another view to make himself look correct by remain consistent with what he has repeated earlier.
Kerwin, everyone who has truth in their heart can see you are either strongly confused or deceived, deceiving others, or both.
Your behavior is not becoming of a servant of God, instead it looks more like this:
Indeed, all who desire to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed, since you know from whom you learned them.
Impostors and evil men are deceiving and being deceived.
Must answer two-part question kerwin. I suspect that the two parts require one answer from you as you will either agree to both or disagree.
Let’s get your confession again.
- You say that the following message from this angel is NOT saying that Jesus was born a savior?
- You say that the following message from this angel is NOT saying that Jesus IS Christ the Lord?
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”?
Just put one Yes or No for both questions please. That is all. In your following post you can explain it, but in the next post I require yes or no only. Unless your answer is yes and no in which case you can also explain that in your following post after the yes & no answer.
Thanks.
t8.
In trying to hold to a false view about one scripture you falsely accuse me of being dishonest and fail to test your own motives and ideas.
Jesus is the Anointed that was promised to the Jews in Scripture and predestined by God for that role by the time he was born but he may not have been anointed until after he performed the act that would lead to him becoming King.
The angel speaks of the promised Anointed not the one that has been anointed just as he also speaks of the promised Savior and not the one that has already laid his life down for his brothers.
Put the point of view in you that thinks that our free choices are known to God in advance and we are chosen to live where and when God chooses. (Romans 8:29)
t8,
If the question is that the angel is stating Jesus was born the prophesied Savior then the answer is yes.
If the question is that the angel is stating Jesus was born the foretold Christ then the answer is also yes.If the question is that the angel is not stating that Jesus is the present Christ as opposed to predestined one then the answer is yes.
If the question is that the angel is not stating that Jesus is the present Savior as opposed to predestined one then the answer is yes.I think I answered those correctly as well as the vagueness within your words even though I have trouble with the word “not” in a question.
t8,
Don’t you find verse 12 strange as the angel does not literally say that the baby is the Savior, who is Christ the Lord but rather calls him a sign instead?
A strange way of speech but perhaps normal for an angel at that time and place.
The context I spoke of is the prophecy of the Christ that existed throughout the Jewish society at that time.
Terrarica,
I do read Scripture and what t8 claims disagrees with other passages. I know that Scripture cannot be broken and I know either it is or t8 is wrong.
t8.
In trying to hold to a false view about one scripture you falsely accuse me of being dishonest and fail to test your own motives and ideas.
Kerwin, you have no credibility. You cannot even accept that Jesus was born on that day as the savior. We are told that he IS the messiah and the Lord.
You have clearly lost this debate. You are arguing with an angel of God.
What you think the angel of God said is:
This day is born to you a baby who will become a savior. He will also be in the future the messiah, and the Lord.
Kerwin your argument here is pathetic. You cannot even see with your own eyes how your view needs to add in words while I am reading the text as it is regardless of any held beliefs I might have.
I prefer scripture to renew my understanding, and not for my understanding to renew scripture.
Clearly you are of the latter. You are teaching falsely about Jesus Christ.
Just so all can see how pathetic your false teaching is, I ask you this simple must answer question so as to expose your folly and deception.
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior,
Does the above scripture mean that on that day, he was not born a savior?
Yes / No
Now please understand the format I require. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Nothing of the evil one please.
I expect in your post to see the question with your yes and no answer only.
In your following post you can explain all you like. But I require a yes or no only in the post that answers this yes/no question.
Why? So the devil cannot be hidden in the details. So no details in that post please.
Following the same format I require a yes no answer only in a post. You can explain all you like in another later on.
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”?
In the bolded text in the above scripture is this saying that:
Jesus was not the Christ and the Lord when he was born on that day?
Yes / No
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