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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 19 2007,00:26) Towshab,Dec. 19 2007,00:16 Quote And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand. There are some Christian translations that get it right (or very close)
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(ESV) Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(YLT) And Jehovah hath delighted to bruise him, He hath made him sick, If his soul doth make an offering for guilt, He seeth seed — he prolongeth days, And the pleasure of Jehovah in his hand doth prosper.
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Again, a couple of straglers is no proof that what you say is true.
Yes throw them out because they do not agree with your theology.
Of course, you still have to deal with the fact that it is supposed to be Jesus' blood that is the offering, yet Is 53:10 says 'soul'. Thus, even though wording is off, you still have the right stuff to reject Is 53:10 speaking of Jesus' death being a form of atonement. Please show me in Torah where it is the soul of the sacrifice that atones for sins. If you can find such evidence then we'll talk. Otherwise, you've just lost your case.
Quote Quote Taken in the context of the rest of Torah and Tanakh, you would see that G-d does not take human sacrifices and that no one can die for another's sins. Thus Is 53:10 speaks of Israel making offering for its sins. And so is your opinion. Is there a scripture in the Torah that says that a sinless man cannot die for anothers sins?
Sorry, but there is no scripture in Torah that says there is such a sinless person so your argument is without merit. I see though that you use the typical ploy of arguing from silence, which means that if it is not written it is OK to make up new rules. But just to cover you, here are some passages
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Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin2Ki 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own sin. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
====================================As you can see, G-d holds each person responsible for his/her own iniquities. No one can pay the price for you and that includes the supposedly sinless Jesus (who violated Torah so he is not sinless according to Torah).
Quote Did not YHWH require Isaac, Abrahams first born Son as a sacrifice, but because Abraham did not even hold back his only Son, the Lord provided the sacrifice. Always the 'go to' passage for Christians. Yet we see that Isaac never WAS sacrificed was he? If he had, you would have a case but since Isaac was replaced by an animal, you must live with the fact that G-d was showing He does not want human sacrifices like other gods were so quick to call for. That is but one of the messages of that passage. It was YHVH showing how He was different from the pagan gods.
Plus, Isaac was willingly brought forward by Abraham because of the faith and obedience of Abraham. Jesus was not brought forward by the faith of anyone except maybe Jesus himself. Please show me in Torah where G-d requires anyone to sacrifice themselves to atone for the sins of another.
Quote What a beautiful picture of the Father offering his Only Begotten Son. Abraham did it out of faith. Since G-d is perfect, what is the point? Who is He being obedient to by supposedly sacrificing His son? You make G-d out to be someone who really screwed things up and had to make amends by copulating with a virgin and then sending his human son to be a sacrifice.
There are a multitude of problems with this because not a bit of it has any foundation in Tanakh. (1) Human sacrifices are an abomination to G-d (2) sacrifices must be brought with a repentant heart willingly (3) the blood of the sacrifice must be placed on an altar by a levitical priest (4) the sacrificed animal must then be burned.
How does any of this match Jesus' death? Since it does not, again, you must keep searching for the real religion that Christianity is based on because it certainly finds no roots in Judaism. The closest match is Mithraism.
Quote God so loved the that he gave his only begotten Son… Jn 3:16 Not YHVH G-d. Perhaps Jupiter or whoever is supposed to be Mithras' daddy.
Quote Heb brings this parralell out beautifully… Heb 9:22
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hbr 9:23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hbr 9:24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
Hbr 9:25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year
with blood that is not his own.
Hbr 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hbr 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Hbr 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.This ties in beautifully with Isa 53:10. So now the burden of proof is on you to prove it wrong. Thing is you can't.
Sorry but Hebrews 9:22 speaks of shedding blood. Is 53:10 speaks of the servant seeking atonement for his soul. Even with the bad Christian translations, the word 'soul' is still there. If Heb 9:22 is saying that blood is the way to recieve forgiveness (and it is but one of many ways prescribed in Tanakh), then this does not match Is 53:10 because there is no blood mentioned. It speaks of a 'soul'.
Not only that, Lev 17:11 in context is not speaking about blood being the only atonement. If you look at the passage in context it is speaking about the prohibition of ingesting blood!
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Lev 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
==================================So here we have but one of many isntances where the 'sinless' Jesus breaks YHVH's Torah!!
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
In Torah, G-d forbids any man to ingest blood. In GT, Jesus tells men they must ingest his blood to have life! So once again, Jesus is not the son of YHVH, he is the son of some pagan god.
Did you know that Mithraism believed that drinking of a bull's blood and eating its flesh would result in being 'born again'? That parallels with John 6:53, which has no parallel in Tanakh. So again, Jesus was not the Jewish messiah, but perhaps the messiah of Zoroastrianism. Zarathustra predicted that there would be such a messiah.
Did you also know that Mithras birth was also on Dec 25. Maybe it should be renamed Mithramas! The custom of giving gifts on Mithras' birthday preceding Christianity by hundreds of years.
Also, Mithras was said to have been born in a manger among shepherds.
You should really do some research on Mithras. He had many many things in common with your Jesus. The whole heavenly judgement thing and the book of Revelation has parallels in Mithraism.
Quote I believe it, you don’t. Its that simple. You can’t prove or disprove faith! Nope. But I can disprove what you have faith in has any real foundations in Tanakh.
Quote Quote He kept insisting the 52nd and 53nd chapter was the nation of Israel, which defys 100s of scholars and commentators. Quote [Each one of them Christian and biased into seeing Jesus leap from the pages of every obscure verse in the Tanakh. Shame he is obviously absent in all of the real messianic passages. Of course it has to be that way for you, or your faith will sink in the sand.
The thing is Tow, what makes you think your sources are so correct?
Let me speak your words back to you concerning your sources from my view…
Each one of them are Non believing Jews or Anti-Christ and biased into not seeing Jesus leaping from the pages of every Messianic Prophesy in the Tanakh. Shame, he is obviously present in all of the real Messianic passages.
Then show me the 'real' messianic passages and I will then proceed to show you the error of your ways. I have already done so with 2 previous lists, yours will likely just be a repeat of theirs.
Quote You are just blowing in the wind by insisting that you have “The Truth” and all Christianity is false. I don't have any truth. I just know that Jesus was not the Jewish messiah. Perhaps he was a promised messiah for a different relgion, but not Judaism. You might check out Zoroastrianism for clues.
Quote Quote He cannot prove by the Torah or Tanakh that Yeshua is or was not the Messiah no more than we could prove he is. Quote Actually, already have many times over. You can find the threads I started in the “Believer's Place” forum. I'm not allowed in there any more so I can't do any more with them. Yea right!
You have proven to yourself maybe. You have pulled blinders over your eyes to believe that you have proven that Yeshua is not the Messiah by the Tanakh or Torah.Quote What I find sad is that you say you cannot prove he is from Torah or Tanakh. That is quite telling. The real King Messiah won't need to be so obscure, all will know. You've made a very weak case for Jesus in that one statement. Very weak indeed.
Its quite sad for you to think that you could walk up to someone and prove he has not come by the Tanakh or the Torah.
Already have, check out the threads. You will see how I took each supposed prophecy offered by Morningstar and kenreich and refuted them. Since no one offered a counter refutation, one must assume they had not response except to ignore.
Quote And as far as proving he has come, could you prove by the Tanakh or the Torah that YHWH exist or is real? Nope. G-d is G-d and you can choose to believe in Him or not. But Jesus was supposed to have been witnessed by thousands and to have walked among us for 33 years. Yet he finds no recorded history outside of the GT.
Quote Stu would disagree if you say yes. But, it is true that when he comes the second time he will come not as a lamb but as a King and Judge. Don't hold your breath. Jesus died 1974-77 years ago and became worm food or was burned in a pile of bodies with other criminals. He won't be coming back any more than Elvis.
Quote Quote Yet he insisted he could. Only the Spirit of God can reveal it. Quote Hahahahaha, when the real King Messiah comes all will know. He will fulfill real prophecies and people will not need the spirit to know who he is! Partly true, however we will always need Gods Spirit. Shame, you should come to know him before he comes again!
I place my trust in YHVH, you can place your trust in a dead man.
Quote Quote He actually thinks that know one had shaken this board like he had. How do you have serious dialogue with someone who has totally closed his eyes to Yeshua the Messiah.
If you are a Christian then you know that if you dont confess Jesus as Lord you are not saved therefore void of the Spirit.
So why should any Christian listen to a man about biblical prophesy who has not the Spirit?
So if you think that he has the Spirit. Then let him stay on your sight and teach his lies about the NT scriptures.
He has not proven anything to me and others here except he is void of faith in Yeshua and the the NT scriptures.
I disagree with you. I think David beat him in debate and ran him off. If he wanted to stay he could have. There would have been a place for him to continue his mission to attack Christianity.
Quote Open the board back up to me and I will gladly come back and refute any supposed evidence anyone brings. Yet you all ran scared and voted to change the board up to keep me and Stu out. No matter, I will start some new threads later today in the boards that are open to me. You can try and refute me there. I didn't try to keep you out. I simply thought it was a good Idea to seperate Christians trying to have dialogue without the interuption of antagonist and atheist.
Scared?
Dont flatter yourself!!!I only call 'em like I see 'em. Judging by the reactions I started getting from people on here, I sensed fear. But then again, that's a milestone of the Christian faith: fear. Fear of hell, fear of death. So just add some more fear in who will notice?
Quote Quote I will enjoy the exchange. Kejonn's board is rather slow at the time and it will be a good exercise for your bible knowledge for me to be here. You need that. We sure dont need your Bible knowledge! But you might be right that somehow in your evil intent to destroy the Faith of others through your ridcule, patronizing, and condescending Spirit, God might have a purpose for you here.
Good you feel I have a purpose. You make me feel like I have a mission. I'm like the Blues Brothers, 'on a mission from G-d'.
Quote Paul asked the Lord three times to remove the thorn in his flesh, the messenger of satan, but the Lord said “My Grace is sufficient for thee”. Cool. Be ready for some grace.
Quote Quote But he would have rather stayed in the middle of the forums where Christians are discussing scriptures they believe in. Quote Sorry, but until the board was changed it was not just for Christians. True. So now agnostics and atheist cannot Hijack the sight.
Hijack? Seems if you had so much truth then such people wouldn't be able to hijack anything.
Quote Quote kejonn You say… Quote Yes, I recreated my site for 2 reasons (1) to restore this site to what it was (although it cannot be fully) and (2) to offer a place where people with beliefs outside of the mainstream can share their thoughts without getting ridiculed.
Ridiculed?
Thats all he and Stu were here for, to ridicule the faith of inocent believers in Yeshua.Do you defend that?
Quote Innocent believers? I am here because Christianity is false. It takes away from the true G-d of all flesh, YHVH. It has people worshiping an idol. Jesus is that idol.
Yes of course, you think you are a prophet and you are here on a mission for YHWH. Get real! YHWH dosnt need your help.
Never said He did, nor do I claim to be a prophet. I'm just doing my part to help guide people away from idol worship and paganism while believing they are serving YHVH. That is an error than needs correcting.
Quote As you said “He is the God of all flesh”, that includes Christians!!!
Good. Then worship Him and not some pagan god-man who has no business being claimed as the Jewish King Messiah.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2007,12:58) Tow You say…
Quote
Since most observant Jews raise their children from an early age to read and write Hebrew, I would dare say that your many biased Christian translations are incorrect.Quote Case closed. Correct. Case closed! I am done with this fruitless dialogue with you.
Whats the use? If the discussion is about scriptures namely the Torah and the Tanakh and the GT, and everytime it dosnt agree with you you cry foul play by the translators then what a waste of time. There is no basis for this conversation!
If you'd read further, I have shown were bad translation or not, Jesus does not match Is 53:10. But I see you will be like most Christians and you will run off and hide now.
Quote How do you expect to prove anything scripturally if the text is corrupt as you say? Never said corrupt. Its more like 'translated with obvious bias'. The underlying Hebrew text is still fine.
Quote In fact it looks like you just pick and choose what you want and then just leave the rest alone, like the fact that YHWH told the Jews to conquer lands and kill their woman and children and even keep their young virgins for themselves, yet you imply that it was the Jews own doings and not YHWH. Yup. That is why I am not a Jew, but a deist. You can believe that G-d told men to do cruel and inhumane things that caused suffering, I choose to think much more highly of the one who created all.
Quote As far as Yeshua offering his soul for sin. The primary part of the man is the spirit and soul of a man, the body is the temple that he lives in. Yeshua gave all, Spirit Soul and Body to redeem the whole man. He went into the lower parts of the earth in hell to redeem us. Uh, how could he do that if he was dead? If you are saying Is 53:10 is him, then his body AND soul was dead, therefore he was going nowhere.
Besides, that stuff about decending to your fictional hell (which comes from Roman and Greek mythology, not Judaism) finds its roots in the RCC. Are you Catholic? I see you adhere to most of their beliefs.
Quote Pss 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Acts 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Another fulfillment of Prophesy.
Sorry, but the word for 'hell' in Ps 16:10 is 'sheol' which means the grave. You know, as in buried, dead, in the ground?
1Sa 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave ['sheol'], and bringeth up.
Strange how the KJV picks and chooses how it will translate a word to fit some theology.
Add to that the fact that Psalm 16 is King David and not some prophecy. And what of this verse?
Psa 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
If Jesus is at G-d's right hand, how can G-d be at his right hand? Both are not possible.
Quote So goodbye friend. I bail out because you are not playing by the rules! Yes, the rules which say I cannot provide proof from Tanakh of Christian fallacy.
Quote I do hope that you will come to know Yeshua as the Messiah! 
How would I? I might as well believe in Harry Potter and pro wrestling too.“Another one bites the dust”
Hi Tow,
You have no place among the chosen people.
You seem to hold that believing in the tanakh saves you.
You claim to be serving God as if your righteousness was more than filthy rags.Your hopes of salvation seem to be illusory.
Who said I had a place among them? Not me. You keep saying things that I never said myself. Is that how you got so many posts by putting words in people's (virtual) mouthes?
And no book saves me. It is just that, words on paper. Does Harry Potter save you? The idea of 'salvation' is a Christian one. The word 'salvation' in the Jewish scriptures has nothing to do with a spiritual deliverence from sin and an inheritance in heaven. It basically means deliverance from enemies.
Christians spend so much time thinking about heaven that they often forget to act while here on earth. That is why secular humanism is better than Christianity. Even atheism seems to have a better grasp on the 'here and now' because this life is all atheists have so they make the best of it.
The next day is my hope, and that I might make something useful out of it. If I don't see the next day, then so be it. I'm thankful with the life G-d has given me already.
Seriously, to have hope in heaven tends to rob yourself of the experience here. If such is in store, why is G-d wasting our time with the years here? Is this life just a testing ground to weed out the good and bad people? How can your view of G-d be so selfish, that He would come up with some scheme that people would have to believe that some dude died to given them eternal life and that if you did not believe it you would land in hell? Your god is a petty god, I don't serve such a petty and selfish Go-d.
Tow
Quote If you'd read further, I have shown were bad translation or not, Jesus does not match Is 53:10. But I see you will be like most Christians and you will run off and hide now. No hiding. I’m still here. I just don’t want to waste my time having dialogue with someone who will pick and choose their text and whine about “The Translations” being biased when it dosnt agree with them.
Especially when it someone who is not a scholar in Greek Hebrew or Aramaic and puts themselves above 100s of scholars.
Besides, I believe in the Tanakh and the Torah, but you don’t believe in the GT.
You said…
Quote
The underlying Hebrew text is still fine.Then you said…
Quote
Yup. That is why I am not a Jew, but a deist. You can believe that G-d told men to do cruel and inhumane things that caused suffering, I choose to think much more highly of the one who created all.I believe the scriptures, but apparently you don’t.
Are you saying that in every case in the Hebrew scriptures YHWH told the Jews to conquer and kill that the text is okay, but it is the “Translators”?
Besides, I believe in the Tanakh and the Torah, but you don’t believe in the GT.
So if I incite the GT, then all you do is ignore it saying it’s a fairy tale.
If I incite the Torah or Tanakh, then you pick and choose what you want.
Pretty convenient for you. Wouldn’t you say?
You can’t have dialogue like that, and I refuse to waste my time.
Have a good life!
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 21 2007,09:20) The next day is my hope, and that I might make something useful out of it. If I don't see the next day, then so be it. I'm thankful with the life G-d has given me already. Seriously, to have hope in heaven tends to rob yourself of the experience here. If such is in store, why is G-d wasting our time with the years here? Is this life just a testing ground to weed out the good and bad people? How can your view of G-d be so selfish, that He would come up with some scheme that people would have to believe that some dude died to given them eternal life and that if you did not believe it you would land in hell? Your god is a petty god, I don't serve such a petty and selfish Go-d.
Hi God,
So you do not like the God of the bible.
You do not really seem to know any God.
We do not hope for heaven but to inherit the earth.So why have you come here if you have nothing to offer but hopelessness and negativity?
Tow
I asked..
Are you saying that in every case in the Hebrew scriptures YHWH told the Jews to conquer and kill that the text is okay, but it is the “Translators”?
You said to NH in another thread…
Quote
Sorry, but I just happen to believe that the Tanakh is the closest writings we have to the real G-d. Still, it fails in so many ways because it was written by humans. We tend to be a fallable lot.Never mind I got my answer!
VERY MUCH A WASTE OF TIME!!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:38) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 21 2007,09:20) The next day is my hope, and that I might make something useful out of it. If I don't see the next day, then so be it. I'm thankful with the life G-d has given me already. Seriously, to have hope in heaven tends to rob yourself of the experience here. If such is in store, why is G-d wasting our time with the years here? Is this life just a testing ground to weed out the good and bad people? How can your view of G-d be so selfish, that He would come up with some scheme that people would have to believe that some dude died to given them eternal life and that if you did not believe it you would land in hell? Your god is a petty god, I don't serve such a petty and selfish Go-d.
Hi God,
So you do not like the God of the bible.
You do not really seem to know any God.
We do not hope for heaven but to inherit the earth.So why have you come here if you have nothing to offer but hopelessness and negativity?
Now you're calling me “god”? My my, you are a confused Christian. Has the GT got you that mixed up about the nature of your god?And if you'll read what I wrote rather than insert your own interpretation (which you seems to do quite often, perhaps cutting back on the chemicals – liquid, pill, or inhaled – will help), I said I don't attribute evil pettiness to YHVH like the Tanakh has men doing from time to time. Again, if G-d wanted a certain people to be destroyed down to the children, then he would not need anyone to do this. Yet we find in the Tanakh where men slaughtered and said G-d told them to. Sounds like a weak cowardly G-d to me. Yet I know better: it is the weak cowardly men who invoke G-d's name when they want to carry out wholesale slaughter.
Seriously, on one hand you are not willing to call those who killed Jews Christians even though they claimed to be but you accept that it was G-d doing the killing in Tanakh just because it is written therein. I suppose then that all they would have had to do was include the crusades and such in the canon of the GT and you would have said it was OK because it was found in your scriptures.
Please.
Unscrew top of head, remove brain. You're not using it anyway.
Hi Tow,
You hold up the OT Scriptures on the one hand and throw stones at them with the other.
You make yourself a god if think you are able to judge scripture.
Far better to obey the real One.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,18:46) Hi Tow,
So you are not any form of believer but only a God hater?
Which god, Jupiter, Zeus, Mithras?Good 'ol Nick, still putting words in people's (virtual) mouths.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2007,16:25) Tow Quote If you'd read further, I have shown were bad translation or not, Jesus does not match Is 53:10. But I see you will be like most Christians and you will run off and hide now. No hiding. I’m still here. I just don’t want to waste my time having dialogue with someone who will pick and choose their text and whine about “The Translations” being biased when it dosnt agree with them.
Sorry, no whining. Just pointing out that the Christian translations are biased. They were translated with spin to try to make Jesus appear in them. Sadly, even “as is” they fail miserably in the endeavor.
Gee, you don't seem to like it when JWs translate your bible in a certain way, why should Jews be happy about the Christian bias placed on Hebrew scriptures? If you are going to accept your Christian translations as correct over Jewish translations of their own scriptures, please stop complaining about the way JWs translate their New World Testament.
Quote Especially when it someone who is not a scholar in Greek Hebrew or Aramaic and puts themselves above 100s of scholars. Sorry, I only use reputable translations of Tanakh when necessary. The majority of the time I used the biased Christian translations to prove my point to Christians. The accurate translations are provided for clarity.
Quote Besides, I believe in the Tanakh and the Torah, but you don’t believe in the GT. No you don't. If you believed them you would know Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. So what you believe is what you read with a Christian bias and special pleading.
Quote You said… Quote
The underlying Hebrew text is still fine.Then you said…
Quote
Yup. That is why I am not a Jew, but a deist. You can believe that G-d told men to do cruel and inhumane things that caused suffering, I choose to think much more highly of the one who created all.I believe the scriptures, but apparently you don’t.
Not all of them because they were written by fallible man. Are you perfect? Is any man perfect? Well, guess who wrote those passages? Imperfect men. Guess who copied them? Imperfect men.
Welcome to Reality 101, please take a seat.
Quote Are you saying that in every case in the Hebrew scriptures YHWH told the Jews to conquer and kill that the text is okay, but it is the “Translators”? No its still there in the Hebrew. I just personally believe that my G-d is not a petty cowardly G-d who needs man to do His dirty work. But then again, the act of slaughtering is not His work anyways. It is the act of angry men with vengeance and power on their hearts. By claiming that G-d told them to do it, other men would follow them. Plus, it relieves them of supposed responsibility.
Quote Besides, I believe in the Tanakh and the Torah, but you don’t believe in the GT. Nope the GT is almost as fictional as Harry Potter. I say almost because it does have some borrowed passages from Tanakh that are true.
“What's true in the new testament is not new, what's new is not true”
Quote So if I incite the GT, then all you do is ignore it saying it’s a fairy tale. Incite? Incite – To provoke and urge on.
And yes, it is pretty much a fairy tale.
Quote If I incite the Torah or Tanakh, then you pick and choose what you want. Sure, why not. Doesn't everybody? After all, why are there so many different beliefs?
Quote Pretty convenient for you. Wouldn’t you say? Sure.
Quote You can’t have dialogue like that, and I refuse to waste my time. Have a good life!
Translated as “I know I can't prove Jesus is the Jewish King Messiah using my OT so I better make excuses and bow out gracefully now while I can retain my dignity”.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,18:56) Hi Tow,
You hold up the OT Scriptures on the one hand and throw stones at them with the other.
You make yourself a god if think you are able to judge scripture.
Far better to obey the real One.
OT scriptures? Tanakh. Your OT is a botched up attempt at translating the Hebrew scriptures.Sorry to say old bean, but you don't even know who your god is so who are you telling me this? On one hand you have YHVH in your OT, but on the other you have some other pagan god who fathers Jesus. So please figure out which god you are serving before pointing your finger at me. Even Jesus says you can't serve two masters so you must choose between 'god the father' and YHVH.
You presume to speak for G-d now? Sorry, but no words written by the hand of any man are the pure words of G-d, therefore I am not treating His words poorly but the words written by fallible man.
And what certainty do you have that His 'cleansed vessels' were the only ones to write scripture? The 'spirit'? The same 'spirit' that results in millions of different viewpoints?
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