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Hi,
In response to a post from cubes I would like to explore this area.
We are told that we struggle , not against flesh and blood but evil beings in high places. Are we helpless against them or not?
I would point to the armour suggested for this warfare in Eph and 1Thess and not all the weapons are defensive. We have the sword of the Spirit. In healing we retake territory stolen by Satan.Certainly it is helpful in sorting out human conflicts to step back and use the gift of discernment from the Holy Spirit, to determine which spiritual enemies we are dealing with. It helps us not look deeper than the person issue to what is behind that conflict.
Binding in private prayer that spirit in the name of Jesus often allows a new freedom to be given in the person in natural world and resolves that conflict.
But cubes also questions our authority to move in these areas and we should discuss that too.
There most definately is spirtual warfare. The Goal of Satan is to destroy a man especially one that has the Holy Spirit. The way Satan seeks to do so is to get you to conform to his own spirit since he knows that he will be destroyed. Satan did a portion of this to Eve when he got her to disobey God's command not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is the method still used. Satan will use enticing words that even sound “christian”. I often wondererd how this works and heard someone claim once that the Devil is called the Prince of the Power of the Air. And said the devil can broadcast his evil thoughts to men. I actually believe that. I saw a scarey movie once called the Excorcist about a little girl that is possessed by a devil. I thought about that movie and how the image of that girl was hard to get out of my head. I thought for a second to see how long I could go without seeing that image in my mind and tried a few excercises to “keep out” the image from my thoughts. I couldn't keep it out very well. The interesting thing was that I started to think how did thought arise each time in my mind since I was trying to keep it out. I think somewhere in our minds we are susceptible to those thoughts unless we practice and practice to discern deep thoughts and their origins around us and pentetrate the underlying sub mind (forget how its spelled).
Paul
Hi ,
Should we throw stones at Satan's fortress?
Well a spiritually directed stone fired by David achieved what seemed impossible and a couple of spiritually played trumpets brought down the walls of Jericho.
The Word says that “he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world”
Jesus gave authority to Peter and then the disciples to “Bind”, telling them whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven. He rejoiced to see Satan fall from heaven when his disciples went out and destroyed Satan's works.
We are told our weapons are mighty even to the pulling down of strongholds. We are told Jesus went around doing good and destroying the works of the devil and we are told to follow him.
Paul was bitten by the serpent and did not die and we are told that the signs that follow believers is the ability to “cast out demons” and “pick up serpents”Throwing stones was reference to destroying things in our own strength and passing judgement and retribution for ourselves. But there is a stone that was cut out withut human hands that strikes the statue and destroys it. The stone then filled the whole earth.
We are also told to seek the Kingdom first.
Jesus said to a crowd, “let him who is without sin throw the first stone”. But yes a well thrown stone from God can make a fortress fall.
Paul.
A solution to the situation you described can be found in NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) which tells us that it is impossible to make a negative objective. (Whether that objective is evil or good, by the way!) What you think of, is what will happen, even if you're thinking of it NOT happening.
If you don't think of something at all it probably won't happen.
If you want something to happen, it's more likely to happen.
If you don't want something to happen, it's also more likely to happen.Here's an example.
Try not to think about a giraffe. Anything, just not a yellow giraffe, with brown spots all the way down its long neck.
Ok, so don't think of your giraffe flying an airoplane.
Fine, ok then, as long as you don't imagine him wearing a red scarf and a moustache…
So you see, even something as unlikely as that…
It's just that the word 'not' means very little to the human brain, much less, say, than the word 'giraffe', 'red', 'possessed little girl with green skin walking over the ceiling', or 'smoke' (which is why people who try to stop smoking by thinking that they 'musn't smoke' have a very hard time fighting why their brains are constantly thinking about and usually give in.)
However, if you make your objective positive – not 'don't think about the possessed girl' but rather 'think about a scarf toting moustachioed pilot giraffe' instead – then your have a much better chance of success.
Hope I've been of use.
Denis
Hi Paul ,
I see it like this. Once we have sold the house to the master and had the power installed in the house we then need to start opening the doors in the house we rent. The master stands at the door and knocks and wants us to release all the rooms and all parts of each room.for his use. We need to be renovated. We need to be transformed by renewal of our hearts and minds. It is called submission. It allows the bats of hate, the rats of unforgiveness, the mice of doubt and the spiders of fear to be driven out by being exposed to the new light and the fresh air of the Spirit.This is done in simple prayer . When problems arise it is often because we have locked a door.
The doors are to rooms called heart and mind, memory and imagination, family and friends, hopes and dreams, workplace and home relationships etc
Hope this helps.
Hi,
Fatalism says we have to accept our fate.
Faith does not say that.As christians our current situation depends on whether we are in the will of God and the mischief of the evil one.
The daily prayer, the “Our Father” includes a seeking of God's will but also asking to be delivered from hard testing and the evil one.
Hi,
When you are interceding for someone in prayer you must identify through discernment the specific enemy you are dealing with. Satan has an army with minions devoted to attacking people in definite ways.If they are constantly angry then anger or unforgiveness is probably the enemy but if they are depressed then depression is likely. Doubt and self doubt is very effective for him to use against us as it underlies fear and anxiety and depression.
We need to watch ourselves too for these as they undermine our faith powerbase [and if any man doubts he can expect nothing from the Lord]. If our work in the Lord is constantly being opposed the antichrist is probably the cause.
In intercessory prayer, if we are called to do this, we can see the Lord set captives free and strengthen the church.
Quote (poisson_1 @ Mar. 26 2005,17:51) If you don't think of something at all it probably won't happen.
If you want something to happen, it's more likely to happen.
If you don't want something to happen, it's also more likely to happen.
If we struggle with sin e.g., too much alcohol, then by thinking I will not drink certainly does invoke the flesh to want to drink. I will not look at members of the opposite sex to lust after them and then you do that very thing.This is how the Law works. It says “thou shalt not” and then the flesh desires that thing. The best way to overcome the desires of the flesh is to do the will of God.
All that is not of faith is sin. So to stop sinning we only need to do works of faith. You can't sin and be righteous at any one moment. So if we are doing things in faith, then we are not sinning. If not then then we are. The more we do from faith the less time to sin.
That is why it is written: “idle hands sin”. Doing nothing means that you are not doing things of faith and therefore you will sin and are sinning.
If it is not of faith it is sin.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2005,03:07) Throwing stones was reference to destroying things in our own strength and passing judgement and retribution for ourselves. But there is a stone that was cut out withut human hands that strikes the statue and destroys it. The stone then filled the whole earth. We are also told to seek the Kingdom first.
Jesus said to a crowd, “let him who is without sin throw the first stone”. But yes a well thrown stone from God can make a fortress fall.
Hi t8,
2Cor 10.3
” For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience ,whenever your odedience is complete”It is interesting that Paul seems to say that our main effort is against false belief and false doctrines. It is they that lock people away from access to the truth that would set them free. The main battleground is the mind for ourselves and others.
We need to have our minds trained in righteousness according to the Word and to be firm in our defence of that truth as it is the path to salvation.
False doctrines such as trinity are of the enemy.
Yes that is certainly true. Well said.
Our words are powerful and we are judged by them. False belief causes people to speak false things. This is how the Father of Lies creates abominations through mankind.
When a man flies a plane into a building and cries out Allah, he finds himself in torment, not Heaven. False prophets and doctrine cause men to do all manner of things, even un-natural acts.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 27 2005,11:31) Quote (poisson_1 @ Mar. 26 2005,17:51) If you don't think of something at all it probably won't happen.
If you want something to happen, it's more likely to happen.
If you don't want something to happen, it's also more likely to happen.
If we struggle with sin e.g., too much alcohol, then by thinking I will not drink certainly does invoke the flesh to want to drink. I will not look at members of the opposite sex to lust after them and then you do that very thing.This is how the Law works. It says “thou shalt not” and then the flesh desires that thing. The best way to overcome the desires of the flesh is to do the will of God.
All that is not of faith is sin. So to stop sinning we only need to do works of faith. You can't sin and be righteous at any one moment. So if we are doing things in faith, then we are not sinning. If not then then we are. The more we do from faith the less time to sin.
That is why it is written: “idle hands sin”. Doing nothing means that you are not doing things of faith and therefore you will sin and are sinning.
If it is not of faith it is sin.
t8, if I may add to what you've said, one of the ways in which I stay on the offensive is two fold: I am very careful what I take into my mind and spirit in the first place, whether through my senses or what I meditate on. I'm also careful what I speak. Both are two sides of the same coin, I think.I am a big believer in Paul's saying: All things are lawful but not all things edify.
It goes a long way in keeping out of the wiles and ways of the evil one. I believe a lot of temptation begins by first taking in a certain data, which the carnal mind then does all its best to clutch to and feed on so that as poisson was saying, you find you think about that thing that you don't want to think about. Well, how about this: don't go there in the first place. Don't take it in.
When reading his post, I read the first thing about the giraffe I think it was, and started to catch on so I stopped reading the rest, and so guess what, I am innocent of the rest of the information and therefore cannot recall it. Better still, as t8 points out, the vacant space then can be filled actively by meditating on Christ and the things of Christ and it leaves no room for the devil.
We are not our own, we belong to Christ so we seek to go only where he'll go, think what he thinks and do what he does as he also learned of his Father.
Nick,
I think what I meant initially as relates to this subject has to do with whether or not a christian can become inadvertently Satan focused through spiritual warfare, rather than be steadfastly Christ focused.
One can spend all his time rebuking the devil, blaming him for this and that, putting out so many fires he'll happily start to keep us distracted so that in effect, he becomes the center of focus. You don't like him and he knows it but what does it matter, he manages to get your attention most of the time, even if it is in rebuke. Do you see what I mean?
Christ our Lord didn't use that approach, nor did the apostles. Jesus usually spoke about the Father.
As you well noted, 2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
I just believe that our prayers should be directed to God who causes his angel to encamp round those that fear him to deliver them. In my opinion, it was unnecessary for the Lady to chart a plane in order to rebuke the principalities and powers of the air and not only that, she was out of place. It doesn't mean that 2 Cor 10:4 is not true.
We live in days that call for prayer all the time, and I do… but I don't engage any one or thing. I simply seek the God's favor in the given situations trusting that he'll do what needs to be done.
Secondly, I don't believe that Intecession is a ministry to which a selected group is called to. It is a ministry for each member of the Body of Christ, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being our examples. There are people who call themselves intecessors. There is no such office designated. All believers are called to intercede for all men everywhere and shame on us if we don't.
Hi cubes,
I agree. The safest place is in the will of God which we seek every day. But that same prayer still contains a plea for protection from the evil one [Mt 6].In the spirit of helping to carry one anothers burdens [Gal 6]and being aware we all have blind spots we are obliged to be prepared to fight off Satan when he attacks our brothers.
Jesus spent a lot of his ministry fighting Satan's hordes as any read of Mark will show. He said we will do greater things too[Jn 14]
Mk 7.15
” But after hearing of him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was a gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking him to cast the demon out of her daughter. And he was saying to her
'Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs'.
But she answered and said to him
'Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children's crumbs.
And he said to her
'Because of this answer, go, the demon has gone out of your daughter'
And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.”He did this work from afar. So can we when the need arises.
Hi cubes ,
We are told to put on our armour[Ephh,1Thess]
In terms of self defence we can tell what areas we are likely to be attacked in by Satan's darts.Helmet of salvation-Confidence in our personal salvation.
Breastplate of righteousness-Confidence in our saviour's work for us.
Shield of Faith-Fight doubt and self doubt.
Belt of truth-Stay with the safety of the Word and speak the truth.
Shoes of the gospel-Avoid laziness,keep walking and enlarge the kingdom.Then we have the Sword of the Spirit for attack and defence of ourselves and others in the power and spiritual awareness of God's Spirit.
Good assessment, Nick.
But let's talk about the Sword of the Spirit:
When Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness, he used the Sword of the Spirit (Word of God). He used it by realigning, reestablishing his footing on that foundation, so to speak and not budging from it to the left or to the right. He knew the word of God and rightly divided and applied it. The Devil backed off.
In contrast to Eve, this is what happened:
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.She knew the truth but did not seem to have confidence in it, referring back to the other aspects of the armour as you pointed out. She budged. And satan squeezed in the crack.
Thus, these two examples also relate to warfare by using the Sword of the Spirit on the offensively: how to use and not to use it right?
Another thing, Eve was engaging in dialogue with that wily, crafty destroyer. Jesus didn't entertain him for a second. The devil sought dialogue and engagement, Yeshua gave him neither.
Hi cubes.
Of course Satan is cunning. He used scripture manipulated to his ends.Jesus treated him with respect but showed him deeper truths that were more important to obey.He challenged Jesus with ” If you are the Son of God..” tempting him to doubt and self doubt, and tied it in with suggested actions to prove who he was. That would separate Jesus from the will of the Father and give Satan authority over him as Jesus would have been following his instructions.
Jesus tolerated these temptations but did not submit to Satan and follow that advice.
But when Satan claimed to have authority of the kingdoms of earth which he would hand over if he was worshipped by Jesus he went too far. Jesus told him to go away.
Satan was telling a halftruth. He was the prince of this earth having taken squatters rights. Idolatry would have led only to loss for Jesus and the liar would have given him nothing.That which he had was about to be taken back off him anyway by Jesus, so Jesus saw through the ruse.
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