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This discussion is about the strategy that some use here where a speck nullifies a plank. In other words a clear scripture that cannot be confused is nullified by another scripture that can have multiple meanings depending on where you put the comma or other similar things.
While we should let the Bible interpret the Bible, we often see here some who twist a scripture somewhere giving rise to them ignoring a very clear scripture elsewhere.
This strategy is used to support bias. In my next post I will give a pure example of this.
Plank
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Speck
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”Those that use John 20:28 to prove the Trinity use it to the detriment of John 17:3 for example. Here is a clear example of the speck nullifying the plank.
So in my view the plank is absolutely true and the speck can be read in 2 ways.
One as supporting the plank completely by referring to Jesus and then God the Father, and even the other one doesn't nullify the plank because Jesus said, “ye are theos” to men, thus in a similar way and all the more so, could be applied to Jesus too.
That is a complete misuse of the teaching about removing the plank in your own eye before removing the speck in your brother's eye. The plank and speck are both not true in that teaching.
Matthew 7
1“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.This verse can be read in more than one way:
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1. The Father is the true God, Jesus is the true God/Man. The Father is not true God/Man. Jesus is not only true God, He is the true God/Man.
2. Jesus is making a contrast, not between the Father and Himself, but between the Father and all the false gods that were being worshiped in the nation in which Jesus lived.
Either option is true.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,20:02) That is a complete misuse of the teaching about removing the plank in your own eye before removing the speck in your brother's eye. The plank and speck are both not true in that teaching.
I didn't quote that scripture as the structure for what this topic is about. I only borrowed the plank and the speck part. That is not illegal and nor is it immoral.So please respeck that. Pun intended.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,20:04) This verse can be read in more than one way:
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1. The Father is the true God, Jesus is the true God/Man. The Father is not true God/Man. Jesus is not only true God, He is the true God/Man.
2. Jesus is making a contrast, not between the Father and Himself, but between the Father and all the false gods that were being worshiped in the nation in which Jesus lived.
Either option is true.
Wrong. The Father is the ONLY true God.
And it doesn't say that Jesus is also the ONLY true God.See how you added the second sentence.
That is a fail Kathi.
I didn't say that the verse said that Jesus is also the only true God. I was giving you another way of understanding Jesus' intent. What I said in other words is that it is true that Jesus is not only true God because He was both true God/Man at that time.
This is the only way that the Father could be the only true God when comparing Him to Jesus, imo.
The Father is the only true God.
The Son is the only true God/Man.Can you drink only the Cranberry juice after it has been mixed with Mango juice? Would it be only true Cranberry juice AFTER it was mixed? No…it would be true Cranberry Mango juice though. That doesn't discount the fact that it is also true Cranberry juice, it just isn't true Cranberry juice only. Get it?
In this comparison:
The Father is like the bottle of true Cranberry juice (theos).
The Son is like the bottle of true Cranberry juice (theos) mixed with true Mango juice (man). This bottle of juice can not be said to be only true Cranberry juice.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,20:41) I didn't say that the verse said that Jesus is also the only true God. I was giving you another way of understanding Jesus' intent. What I said in other words is that it is true that Jesus is not only true God because He was both true God/Man at that time. This is the only way that the Father could be the only true God when comparing Him to Jesus, imo.
The Father is the only true God.
The Son is the only true God/Man.
A glaring plank sized error in your summisation, (not sure if that word exists).If Jesus were both God and Man, then one part is the one true God because it would include Jesus the God.
If Jesus were a man and also God, then he would not be excluded.
In the same way, if I was president of the USA and head of the IMF then being head of the IMF would not negate me being president of the USA.
You are getting desperate again.
Jesus existed in the form of God, emptied himself and came in the flesh. He died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God, in the glory that he had with him before the world began.
It really is that simple. The Church doesn't need the Trinity, Binity, or Quinity to explain anything. It was never complicated to begin with. And the world knows this is crap when they hear it. Plus you put a wedge between yourself and faith with the Jews who believe in YHWH.
The Divider of Christians maybe a title of a topic here, but that title is true.
Plank
God is invisible. No man has seen God.Speck
Moses saw YHWH.On the outset, this could be seen as two contradictory planks.
But when we delve deeper we know that what Moses saw was an angel as that is clearly described in both the Old and New Testaments.
But Trinitarians hard at work will use the speck to nullify the plank. And even after they have been shown that Moses saw the Angel of the LORD, and that Jesus is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD, they still conclude this:
That God is invisible yes, except when he is visible.
Another plank and speck example.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2013,12:02) That is a complete misuse of the teaching about removing the plank in your own eye before removing the speck in your brother's eye. The plank and speck are both not true in that teaching. Matthew 7
1“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
kathithat is again a speck
this his the plank;
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”it is your mind and your mouth that judges you and so can be seen by others ;
this is how we differentiate the true and false preachers, this must be done for our own seek.
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