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I’ve recently begun to believe there is sorrow in heaven. I’ve never heard anyone else say this, so I wonder if anyone else agrees? There are several reasons I think this. When Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus said ‘Lazarus was comforted’. If Lazarus was ecstatically happy, why would he need comfort? It sounds like he was sorrowful because of the sad life he lived, and was receiving comfort. When Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem, ‘Rachel cried and refused to be comforted’. Rachel was Jacob’s wife, who’d been dead almost 2,000 years, and she was crying. The last verses in the Old Testament speak of ‘the father’s hearts turning to the children, and the children’s hearts turning to the fathers’. The prophet Malachi says Elijah’s preaching will make this happen, and some commentary’s say John the Baptist fulfilled this in a way, but there’s a deeper meaning. Isa. 29:22, 23 “Jacob shall no more be ashamed, neither shall his face wax pale, when he seeth his children become the work of my hands” and Isa. 63:16, “Doubtless thou art our Father, though Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our Father, our Redeemer!” These passages say the Patriarch’s in their abodes of rest are ashamed of their degenerate children, but will rejoice when the coming prophet preaches. The only place in the Bible it says there is NO more sorrow is Rev. 21:4, when God creates a new heaven AND a new earth, implying there was sorrow in heaven prior to this. People who say heaven is a happy place seem to believe that’s because God and Jesus are there, so it’ll have to be perfect and happy. They believe God has a magic wand He waves to make everyone nice after they die. If He could do that, why doesn’t He do it now? I think He wants us to be responsible for the changes in our lives, so we have the satisfaction of this accomplishment. One way we are changed is seeing the results of our lives, by seeing what happens on earth after we die…and some of what we see will make us sad. It would HAVE to. There are several verses that speak of a time when secrets will be revealed. That might refer to deceased people watching from the other side of the grave. Does anybody else think this interpretation about heaven is possible?
Hi Kathy and welcome,
Who are these men you claim are in heaven? Is it not a popular myth?
Jesus Christ is in heaven but no others are said to live there
Heaven is the abode of God and His angels.
Man shall inherit the earth
hi Kathy,
The angels rejoice when 1 sinner repents.
mankind has a great crowd of angelic witnesses
heb 12.1
1 Cor. 5:8, ‘To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord’. ‘Heaven’ is where Believers’ spirit goes after he dies, to await the return of Jesus to earth, where we will ‘rule-and-reign’ with Him. The 1,000 rule of Jesus is also called the ‘kingdom of heaven’. That is when people will inherit the earth, as you say, but meanwhile, where do you suppose Believers are, if not ‘heaven’? Moses and Elijah were men, yet they were in heaven after they died, because they came back to visit with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Hi Kathy,
Yes the spirit of a man returns to God at death. But the soul does not. Ecc 12.
And the unity we have in the Spirit of Christ means that we are seated with him in the heavenly realms[coll2]
But when he returns to earth will we not be raised from earth to meet him in the air? Do you actually believe in the resurrection of the dead?
Kathy,
The souls of the dead go to the land of the dead where there is a place of a wicked and a place for the righteous. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus takes place within the netherworld.
Some teach it is in the third heaven but I do not know if that teaching is based on the word of God or is derived from the imaginations of non-Spiritual humans.
Hi Kathy,
There are two resurrections as Rev 20 shows.
And they are separated by 1000 yrs
The first is detailed in 1 cor 15.
They are both shown in Jn5
The first is shown in jn5.25 and the second in 5.28-29
Hi Kathy,
Do you think people go to heaven when they die and then return to earth to be raised up and to face the judgement?
Popular earthly myth just offers us the first part. Men judge themselves as good enough to deserve heaven.
If we must argue semantics, so be it. You state the ‘netherworld’ has a place for the righteous. Tell me what you call that place, so we can get to the point I asked about…is there sorrow in this place where people go after death? I believe people are composed of 2 parts, the physical and the spiritual. The heart, mind, soul, spirit, nephesh, all mean the same thing, a person’s spiritual self. The dead body sleeps in the grave, awaiting the resurrection. Souls who are completely righteous through faith in Jesus go to be with Him after death. Souls who are completely wicked go to hell. Very few people are completely wicked. Only those with a full knowledge of God and still reject Him and His Son are completely wicked. The vast majority of people are neither completely wicked nor completely righteous, including those who lived prior to Jesus life on earth. Those people go to a waiting place, for some future judgement which the Bible doesn’t give many details about how God will deal with people who haven’t had an opportunity to know Jesus. There is no other name under heaven whereby men may be saved, other than the name of Jesus though, so eventually, everyone must be given an opportunity to accept Him or reject Him, if God is fair, as I believe Him to be. Since the first commandment was to multiply and fill the earth, I think everybody will be here during the 1,000 years when Jesus rules. In the story of Cain and Able, God told Cain “If you don’t straighten up, sin stands at the door.” It is of note that God doesn’t hold Cain responsible for his sin until God Himself has corrected him and given him an opportunity to do right. During the 1,000 year reign of Messiah, Jesus Himself will show the world who and what He really is, and people will be shown the ‘correct’ way to live. After 1,000 years, Satan is let out for a time, then people will make their final decision, for Jesus, or against Him. Those who hold on to Jesus until the end will be saved. This is fair. This is what I think happens, but I’m not dogmatic about it because the Bible isn’t really clear about what happens to people who have never been given an opportunity to know Jesus. I believe there is more than one judgement. I’ve read some commentaries on them but haven’t spent any time studying them. They don’t concern me. Basically, people are judged immediately after death to determine where they go, then later, there is another judgement of the righteous, to determine their rewards. In the book of Enoch, God locked up some of the fallen angels for a time. Why do you think He wouldn’t do the same with people who reject His Son, sending them to a place to wait on a future judgement?
Hi Kathy,
Thank you for your thoughts.
Among them are a lot of misconceptions about death and what happens next.
I would suggest you go directly to the source of truth, the bible and throw away what man and religion have fed to you.
Hi Kathy,
Seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you.
You cannot see the kingdom at the moment and you must be born again.
This is what Peter preached at Pentecost-repentance, baptism in the Name of Jesus .
Then the Holy Spirit of promise can be given to you to give you light about these other matters.
Hi Kathy,
James told us if any man needs wisdom he only needs to pray and it will be given.
Ask and you will receive.
God is calling
Hi Kathy,
One misconception about men apart from Jesus Christ being righteous.
Romans tells us NONE are righteous. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
ALL must repent.
Judgement is not about about the foolish deeds of men. It is about obedience to the message of the Son of God.
Kathy,
The dead are only a shadow of themselves as they do not have the body and there their full function. It is only when they are resurrected that they will regain full access to those things.
I know that the wicked are tormented and the righteous feel pleasure but beyond that I know little. I doubt they have anything to feel sorrow about unless it is in relation to the living. The dead themselves are subject to judgement and it is either too late for sorrow or there is no reason for sorrow.
From what little I know they do not seem aware of the living though they do know when someone comes to join them. According to Jesus’ parable they are able to communicate with one another even across the great gulf that separate the land of the wicked from the land of the righteous. Some passages indicate they are either sleeping or at rest.
Kathy,
There is sorrow in heaven. The angels are saddened by those that take a wrong path as are both Jesus Christ and God. After all there is great rejoicing when a sinner repents.
Kathy,
I have always taken the phrase of Rachel crying as figurative but perhaps it is literal. If so then the dead may cry about lives cut short.
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