Son?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Thanks for your honest effort. You say “The One God (Godhead) is comprised of the Father, the Prince of Peace (Christ) and the Counselor (Holy Spirit)? OK then what of 2 Cor 5 ” 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” So Who, according to scripture, was in the vessel of Christ? God. To you God is a trinity. So three were in Christ? Three spirits? Three and one vessel makes four. Was Christ in himself? But God is ONE

NH

Actually No.

Jesus is the embodiment of the Godhead.

The Father, the Word that was made flesh, Jesus, and the Spirit that came upon him at the baptism, the Holy Spirit.

I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Do you see the three NH?

God[Father],manifest in the flesh [Jesus],justified in the Spirit[Holy Spirit]….

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi WJ: Thanks, for giving me this detailed information relative to views on the Trinity.  This a lot of information and I'll have to do some studying before I respond to your comments. I can say this.  I asked God in prayer why he used Elohym the plural instead of the singular, and the response that I got was because He is the God of gods and the Lord of lords. (De 10:17)  There is only one God but His divine nature is being formed in us as his children.  Jesus is the express image of His person, and so when God is finished with us we should have Jesus' personality.  (Psalm 82, John 10:33-37) Ultimately, what matters is that God confirm either your teaching or mine with the same kind of miracles that he did in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles.  God will not confirm a lie. If we join hands in prayer asking God to bring us into unity, He will do it.

Hi 94

Remember “Elohym” was found before creation.

God is not God of any gods because to him there is no other.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Does this sound familiar?

Rev 1:8-18
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus said…
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.'

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2006,05:05)

Quote Hi W, Thanks for your honest effort. You say “The One God (Godhead) is comprised of the Father, the Prince of Peace (Christ) and the Counselor (Holy Spirit)? OK then what of 2 Cor 5 ” 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” So Who, according to scripture, was in the vessel of Christ? God. To you God is a trinity. So three were in Christ? Three spirits? Three and one vessel makes four. Was Christ in himself? But God is ONE NH Actually No. Jesus is the embodiment of the Godhead. The Father, the Word that was made flesh, Jesus, and the Spirit that came upon him at the baptism, the Holy Spirit. I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Do you see the three NH? God[Father],manifest in the flesh [Jesus],justified in the Spirit[Holy Spirit]….

Hi W,
So Jesus the Man has God within him?
Just as we can have God within us?

Eph 3.19
“19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

Any difference?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, So Jesus the Man has God within him? Just as we can have God within us? Eph 3.19 “19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.” Any difference?

NH

Of course!

Jesus is the ONLY Begotten of the Father. By him all things were created, and in him all the Fullness of the Godhead dwells. I know no one else like that do you?

Creator and created.

So are you saying that because we have God in us and Jesus has God within him that we are equal to Jesus?

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2006,06:07)

Quote Hi W, So Jesus the Man has God within him? Just as we can have God within us? Eph 3.19 “19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.” Any difference? NH Of course! Jesus is the ONLY Begotten of the Father. By him all things were created, and in him all the Fullness of the Godhead dwells. I know no one else like that do you? Creator and created. So are you saying that because we have God in us and Jesus has God within him that we are equal to Jesus?

Hi W,
So, according to your idea, Jesus was filled with the Spirits of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?

No. Jesus was not filled with himself.

There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God.

Jesus said so.

Jn 8
” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, So, according to your idea, Jesus was filled with the Spirits of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? No. Jesus was not filled with himself. There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God. Jesus said so. Jn 8 ” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”

NH

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit! These three are One!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, So, according to your idea, Jesus was filled with the Spirits of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? No. Jesus was not filled with himself. There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God. Jesus said so. Jn 8 ” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”

Obviously NH you didnt read my post at all. Or you just refuse to believe it.

Either way Ill still pray for you!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2006,06:07) Quote   Hi W, So Jesus the Man has God within him? Just as we can have God within us? Eph 3.19 “19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.” Any difference? NH Of course! Jesus is the ONLY Begotten of the Father. By him all things were created, and in him all the Fullness of the Godhead dwells. I know no one else like that do you? Creator and created. So are you saying that because we have God in us and Jesus has God within him that we are equal to Jesus? Hi W, So, according to your idea, Jesus was filled with the Spirits of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? No. Jesus was not filled with himself.   There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God. Jesus said so. Jn 8 ” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”

By the way NH you say….

Quote

So, according to your idea, Jesus was filled with the Spirits of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? No. Jesus was not filled with himself.

Im simply stating the scripture…
Col. 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God.

NH

So are you saying the Spirit of God is God?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

There is ONE spirit, the Spirit of God the Father, and He is God.

NH.

Are you saying the Spirit of God is God?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
God manifests Himself throughout His creation through His Spirit.

Does the Spirit have a spirit?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God manifests Himself throughout His creation through His Spirit. Does the Spirit have a spirit?

NH

Answer a question with a question?

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2006,15:54)

Quote Hi W, God manifests Himself throughout His creation through His Spirit. Does the Spirit have a spirit? NH Answer a question with a question? Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Hi W,
Of course the Spirit of Christ,
which proceeds from the Father,
speaks of Christ, who proceeded from God
using his eternal words of life.

The Son PROCEEDED from
and CAME FROM
God

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

BUT the Spirit PROCEEDS from God unto eternity.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

That is the plan of God to pour of His own Spirit into Christ and into his body on earth uniting them with Himself for eternity.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Of course the Spirit of Christ, which proceeds from the Father, speaks of Christ, who proceeded from God using his eternal words of life. The Son PROCEEDED from and CAME FROM God John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. BUT the Spirit PROCEEDS from God unto eternity. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: That is the plan of God to pour of His own Spirit into Christ and into his body on earth uniting them with Himself for eternity.

NH

These are your words…

Father…

Quote

Of course the Spirit of Christ, which proceeds from the Father,

Son…

Quote

The Son PROCEEDED from and CAME FROM God

Holy Spirit…

Quote

BUT the Spirit PROCEEDS from God unto eternity

Looks like the trinity to me.

I do luv ya and are prayen for ya NH.

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“Looks like the trinity to me.”
Inference never stands up to testing as good evidence.

You will see what you are looking for
till the Spirit sets you free and shows you truth.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, You say “Looks like the trinity to me.” Inference never stands up to testing as good evidence. You will see what you are looking for till the Spirit sets you free and shows you truth.

NH

You just described the trinity with your own words and then you say I need to be set free.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You see trinity because you have trinity glasses on and they restrict your vision unto blindness.

[Worshipping Jesus]

LOL

NH

Now you say Im blind? You dont know my heart NH.

Do you have a coin on all truth

Why do you judge me so?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Your words betray that you do not yet know the Spirit because the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the Word of Christ and you preach what was never found in his mouth.

You must be reborn from above to see the kingdom but you still seem to see instead the kingdom of Babylon with it's trinity gods.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2006,22:43)

Quote Hi WJ: I have given you my understanding of the Holy Spirit, and as part of my morning prayer routine, I ask God to correct me if I am teaching any thing that is not his Word or doing any thing that is not His will, and so, if my understanding of this subject is wrong, I welcome His correction. I can't add anything to what I have already stated, but I can ask you a few questions.  What is your understanding of the Holy Spirit?  Is Jesus referring to the Holy Spirit dwelling in him when he says, “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the works”. (John 14:10) Or when he says, “And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU”.  (John 14:17) If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done? “But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.  (1 Co. 8:6) The Father and the Son are one in the Spirit of Holiness. Hi Nick and WJ: God has corrected me many a time.  I have made many mistakes in interpreting scripture, but I have been praying for God to correct me if I am teaching any thing that is not is word for 26+ years, and not the subject of the “Trinity” I have asked God to show me if the doctrine of the “Trinity” is correct, and the answer that I get is that there is nothing said in the scriptures about a “Trinity”.  Nevertheless, if someone can show me by the scriptures that the doctrine is correct, I am humble enough to accept correction. And so, WJ please explain how you arive at this doctrine.  Is it possible that you could be wrong WJ? God is not the the author of confusion. Also, WJ: You did not answer any of the questions that I asked?  For someone that is sure of the “Trinity” being correct, it seems that you would be able to answer my questions in order to convince me. Hi 94 First of all in response to your last post, there is nothing I can say about the trinitarian view to convince you. All I can do is give you scripture that I believe supports this view. The Holy Spirit has to be the one that convinces us of all truth. Also I cannot prove to you the Trinitarian view by quoting scripture. In fact, any one who says that they fully understand The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is not being sincere and honest in light of all of the scriptures. For every scripture that I quote in support of the Trinitarian view there are scriptures that would be thrown back to deny it. This is a debate that has been going on for centurys and continues. Surely if it was black and white then it would have been settled 100s of years ago. So here we are. Both sides have some valid points, but there is only one truth. I believe that the Trinitarian view best describes the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in light of all the scriptures. I will be using KJV not because I believe it is the only Authorized  version but because this is what I am used to. You say… Quote What is your understanding of the Holy Spirit? I believe the Holy Spirit is “another” person of the Godhead. Godhead – three greek words.. Theios: A general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks. Translated in Acts 17:29 – Godhead, in 2 Peter 1:3 – devine, and 2 Peter 1:4 –devine Theiotes Divinity, divine nature Translated in Romans 1:20 – Godhead. Theiotes comes from the root word Theios meaning, a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks. Theotes 1) deity, the state of being God, Godhead Translated in Colossians 2:9 – Godhead There is some debate over the translation of the word Godhead. Many translators used the word Godhead because a close study of the words denotes a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks. And in keeping with all of the scriptures they used this word. This would be consistant with Genesis 1:1.  The Hebrew word Elohim (translated “God” in Genesis 1:1) actually indicates more than one divine personality. This same plural form is used over 2,500 times in the Old Testament. While it is true the same word was used for other beings besides God. We know that no other being took part in the creation. So there is two classes of beings in the universe. Creator and created. Pure and simple. A literal translation of Deuteronomy 6:4 explains it very well. “Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity.” Also we know of… John 1:1 “The Word was with God, and the Word was God” The following translations interpreted Theotes in Col 2:9 as Godhead… KJV, ASV, YLT, Darbys, Websters, HNV,. So I leave this debate to the latin and greek scholars. But, I see in light of all the scriptures that God is plural, and therefore Godhead is an appropriate description of him. Col 2:9,10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Father, Son and Holy Spirit dwelling in Christ in bodily form. You say… Quote Is Jesus referring to the Holy Spirit dwelling in him when he says, “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the works”. (John 14:10) Yes the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, and the Father Spoke from heaven “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. This would show that the Holy Spirit and the Father are separate, and yet we know that the Father also dwells in Jesus. How is this? Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth, [ekporeuomai] from the Father, he shall testify of me: The Spirit proceedeth, [ekporeuomai] from the Father.. ekporeuomai means: 1) to go forth, go out, depart 2) metaph. a) to come forth, to issue, to proceed 1) of feelings, affections, deeds, sayings By the Spirit proceeding from the Father we know the Spirit is the same essence or substance as the Father. He is The Spirit of God. Trinitarians hold to the view that the Spirit of God is God and yet is distinct and separate from the Father! Hard to swallow to say the least. But we are speaking of God here. He dosnt fit into our finite minds. Trinitarians do not throw away the scriptures or sweep them under a rug because we don’t understand them. Those who deny this (while I will get blasted fo r this Ill say it anyway), are not being honest in their interpretation of all of the scriptures. So lets look at what Jesus says about the Spirit. A closer view of the scripture here is Jesus calls the Spirit Comforter(not spirit of the Father nor his own spirit to come), and that he will SEND him unto us. Did Jesus send himself or did Jesus send the Father? Now if the Spirit here is the Father then Jesus would be greater than the Father to send the Father. So the Spirit is another. Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another[allos] Comforter [parakletos], that he may abide with you for ever; Another – [allos], which means: another, other. Its translated  AV – other(s) 81 times , another 62, some 11, one 4, misc 2; 160 times in the new testament this word was used in describing something other than. Comforter – parakletos, which means: 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor The Father shall Give you ANOTHER COMFORTER, one called to your side, one who will plead for you as an intercessor. Rom 8:26,27 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Particularly notice vrs 27. He the spirit maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God! Back to Jn 14:16 Now if Jesus was meaning the Holy Spirit was the Father, this would make no sence. Not to mention that untill this point Jesus has solely used the title Father, and now all of a sudden he reveals the Holy Spirit to them and still refers to the Father. Now Jesus says…. John 14:17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Here we see Jesus speaks of the Spirit as one the world can’t receive because the world dosn’t see him nor knows him. Again if this were the Father, why would he not speak of the Father rather than Speak of the Spirit? Now lets examine and dissect some of the words Jesus uses in speaking of the Spirit the Comforter. Jn 14:26 But the Comforter [parakletos], [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom [hos] the Father will send in my name, he[ekeinos] shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos]  I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he [ekeinos] shall testify of me: Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter [parakletos] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him [autos] unto you. [8] And when he [erchomai] is come, he [ekeinos]  will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. [12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he [ekeinos] , the Spirit of truth, is come, he [hodegeo]  will guide you into all truth: for he [laleo] shall not speak of himself [heautou]; but whatsoever he [akouo] shall hear, that shall he [laleo]  speak: and he [anaggello] will shew you things to come. [14] He [ekeinos] shall glorify me: for he shall receive [lambano] of mine, and shall shew it unto you. These are the greek definitions of the words above in brackets. Parakletos, 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor ekeinos he, she Erchomai 1) to come a) of persons 1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning 2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public hos who, which, what, that Heautou himself, herself, itself, themselves akouo 1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf 2) to hear b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said lambano 1) to take a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it 1) to take up a thing to be carried 2) to take upon one's self hodegeo 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide 2) to be a guide or a teacher a) to give guidance to laleo 1) to utter a voice or emit a sound 2) to speak a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech b) to utter articulate sounds anaggello 1) to announce, make known 2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearse Now this shows plainly that The Holy Spirit is another and that the Spirit is not just a power or force from God. We see here that the Spirit thinks, speaks, guides, teaches, hears. A force or power dosn’t do that. If it did (as many claim here) and was not a personality then it would still be a separate being from God. Which I find more weird than saying that the Spirit is God, One with the Father and the Son. Jesus also says…. John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom [hos] the world cannot receive, because it seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]: but ye know him [autos]; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”. The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'} 1) himself, herself, themselves, itself 2) he, she, it 3) the same It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121. That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person. There are many other scriptures pointing to the Spirit of God as a person. I have dealt mostly with the Spirit because I believe if a person can begin to understand the Spirit of God and his relationship in the Godhead then they will understand the relationship of Jesus and the Father in the Godhead. Many don’t have a problem with the Father and the Son as being deity or God (theos). In fact they say that Jesus is God, (a lessor God) because the Father says he is. Whats up with that? Unless Jesus is God one with the Father then the scriptures are broken. Matt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Jesus knew the ten commandments. Exod 20:3-5 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that Yet we see men calling Jesus Lord and Master whom they say they do because God said so. But ask yourself could anyone but God be all that Jesus is? Would God the Father command us to bow the knee and serve Jesus calling him Lord and master if he were not God, one with the Father? Not that he isn’t the Son but that he is ONE with God in everyway. By him all things were created and with him was not anything created and by him all things consist and he upholds all things by the word of his power. God. Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. Following is a list of scriptures showing all three. I borrowed these from CB. Matt. 28:19 Baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit 11 Cor. 13:14 Grace of Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit. 11 Cor. 1:21,22 He Who establishes in Christ, anointed us is God, and given us the Spirit 1 Thess. 5:18-19 Will of God in Christ Jesus…quench not the Spirit. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Jude 20-21 Praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of Jesus Christ. Notice also that ALL THREE MEMBERS were present at creation Genesis 1:1,2 In the beginning GOD(Elohiym-plural) created the heavens and the earth…And the Spirit of God (Elohiym-plural) was hovering over the face of the the waters. Genesis 1:26 And God (Elohiym-plural) said, ….. “Let US make man in OUR image…so God (Elohiym-plural) created man in His image..male and female He created THEM. Col. 1:15 “By Him [Christ] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, …all things were created through Him and for Him.” Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Isaiah 9:6 Christ's NAME, carries the Full Godhead: “Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given and His NAME shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. The One God (Godhead) is comprised of the Father, the Prince of Peace (Christ) and the Counselor (Holy Spirit) You say…. Quote If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done? We can not think of God only in human terms. There is no committee. They are One. One does nothing without the other. God is not divided. He is one God in three persons. Again, a literal translation of Deuteronomy 6:4 explains it very well. “Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity.” You say… Quote “But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.  (1 Co. 8:6) Remember the context of this scripture. Rom 8:5,6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Amen, there are many Lords and gods, BUT TO US there is ONE GOD- the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Father of whom are all things. Jesus Christ by whom are all things. One creator. All else is created. Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else. [/B]

Hi WJ:

I have read and digested all that you wrote relative to your beliefs about the “trinity”, but I believe that this doctrine is a misunderstanding of scripture.

You say, “Also I cannot prove to you the Trinitarian view by quoting scripture. In fact any one who says that they fully understand the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit is not being sincere and honest in light of all of the scriptures”.

If you cannot prove to me from the scriptures the “Trinitarian view, then it must not be scriptural. We know that the Holy Ghost will lead us to all truths, but He does this through the scritprures.

Relative to Jesus God the Father revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter who Jesus is. Matt. 16:13-17 states: “When Jesus came into the Coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, whom do men say that I am? And they said, some say that thou art John the Baptist: and some Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, but whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OT THE LIVING GOD. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hat not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven”.

There is not need to look any further to try to determine who Jesus is. God has revealed this plainly to us by this scripture. He is not GOD THE SON, but HE IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. End of this discussion, lest we make God and Jesus liars. Because Jesus did not say that He was God otherwise He would be condradicting who God said that he was.

1 Co. 2:9-13 states: But as it is witten. Eye hath not seen, not ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God has revealed them unto us by HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God (As Jesus the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father). that we may know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words hich man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual”.

You say, “By the Spirit proceeding from the Father we know that the Spirit is the same essence or substance as the Father. HE IS GOD'S SPIRIT”.

You and I agree that the Holy Ghost is God's Spirit and not a third person. End of this discussion. The above scripture that I quoted from 1 Co. plainly states this, and also makes a comparison between God's Spirit knowing His thoughts as our spirit knows ours.

You said that your real person was your spirit and I agreed with you. I have discussed this with you in my previous posts.

As for discussion on the Godhead, Jesus is the express image of God's person. (Hebrews 1:3) John 14:9-10 states: “Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAT SEEN ME HAAT SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, shew us the FAther? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”.

John 1:18 states: “no man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 1 John
5:20 states: “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that WE MAY KNOW HIM THAT IS TRUE, and we are in him that is true, even in HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE”.

You say, “Tinitarians hold to the view that the Spirit of God is God and yet is distinct and separate from the Father. He is the Spirit of God. Hard to swallow to say the least. But we are speaking of God here. He doesn't fit our finite minds. Trinitarians do not throw away scriptures or sweep them under a rug because we don't understand them”.

The Trinitarian view is indeed hard to swallow and has caused many not to confess Jesus as Lord because from this view you are saying that he is God. I evangelized on the street for the past ten years and have found this to be the case with many Jews and Muslims to whom I have witnessed.

They know and I know that there is only ONE GOD. We are subjected to

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