Son?

Participant

Quote

I think you will come to realise that there is ONE SPIRIT

Which is God!

November 30, 2006 at 10:29 pm#33444

Participant

Quote

Hi w,
You will believe what you believe.
Scripture is safer ground than the traditions of men.

This is scripture NH.

NH you say about the words of Jesus….

“Inference is a poor witness to truth.”

If you don’t believe the words of Jesus and say that he was just making inferences when it does not agree with your doctrine, then you deny the Word of God.

If you deny The Lord Jesus words, and set out to establish your own view, then you have built your own doctrine on sinking sand. Everything else will be twisted and distorted to support your view.

II Peter 3:16 is also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest(strebloo, to twist, turn awry) as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The greek word for wrest is strebloo, which can also mean….
1) to twist, turn awry
2) to torture, put to the rack
3) metaph. to pervert, of one who wrests or tortures language in a false sense
You do violence to the scriptures when you spin them for our own purpose.
Dangerous to say the least.

Jesus Said…..

Jn 14:26
But the Comforter [parakletos], [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom [hos] the Father will send in my name, he[ekeinos] shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos] I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he [ekeinos] shall testify of me:

Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter [parakletos] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him [autos] unto you.
[8] And when he [erchomai] is come, he [ekeinos] will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13] Howbeit when he [ekeinos] , the Spirit of truth, is come, he [hodegeo] will guide you into all truth: for he [laleo] shall not speak of himself [heautou]; but whatsoever he [akouo] shall hear, that shall he [laleo] speak: and he [anaggello] will shew you things to come.
[14] He [ekeinos] shall glorify me: for he shall receive [lambano] of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

These are the greek definitions of the words above in brackets.

arakletos, 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor

ekeinos
he, she

Erchomai
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

hos
who, which, what, that

Heautou
himself, herself, itself, themselves

akouo
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

lambano
1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self

hodegeo
1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance to

laleo
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds

anaggello
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearse

Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom [hos] the world cannot receive, because it seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]: but ye know him [autos]; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”.

The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'}
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121.
That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person.

There are many other scriptures pointing to the Spirit of God as a person.

Can it be any plainer?

November 30, 2006 at 10:31 pm#33445

Participant

Hi W,
2Cor 3
“16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

God, Who is in heaven, is manifest through His Spirit in Christ and us, changing us to His image in Christ.

1Cor 15
” 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. '

November 30, 2006 at 10:41 pm#33446

Participant

Quote

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Great scripture NH!

The Lord is that Spirit! My point exactly!

By the way NH Please tell me that you dont mean the following statement!

You said about the words of Jesus….

“Inference is a poor witness to truth.”

If you don’t believe the words of Jesus and say that he was just making inferences when it does not agree with your doctrine, then you deny the Word of God.

If you deny The Lord Jesus words, and set out to establish your own view, then you have built your own doctrine on sinking sand. Everything else will be twisted and distorted to support your view.

Jesus Said…..

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos] I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he [ekeinos] shall testify of me:

These are the greek definitions of the words above in brackets.

ekeinos
he, she

Erchomai
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

hos
who, which, what, that

Heautou
himself, herself, itself, themselves

akouo
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

lambano
1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self

hodegeo
1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance to

laleo
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds

anaggello
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearse

Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.

Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”.

There are many other scriptures pointing to the Spirit of God as a person.

Can it be any plainer?

November 30, 2006 at 10:44 pm#33447

kenrch

Participant

What about this Nick?

Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”.

November 30, 2006 at 10:45 pm#33448

Participant

Hi W,
You say
“If you don’t believe the words of Jesus and say that he was just making inferences when it does not agree with your doctrine, then you deny the Word of God.”
Please can you show us where Jesus said

“the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of God but is another being like myself in God and we are a trinity”

or something along those sorts of clear lines of teaching.

We do not have too read between the lines of scripture to find what God wants us to know, as we are but His children.

God is the Father and the God of Jesus.
That is simple and taught.

November 30, 2006 at 11:04 pm#33450

kenrch

Participant

Nick what about these definitions? According to those definitions it would seem that the Holy Spirit is a person!

November 30, 2006 at 11:48 pm#33453

Participant

Hi kenrch,
You say
“it would seem'

But to seem
is not the same as

“It is written”

December 1, 2006 at 1:08 am#33456

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 29 2006,02:23)

Hi WJ:

You said your real person is your spirit and I agreed with you that your spirit is who you are. It is the life that you live that defines who you are.

Likewise, God's Spirit is the life that he lives. It is his personality that is defined by what he does.

The Holy Ghost does all those things that you mentioned, but He (God's personality) does not speak of his own initiative. It is God speaking to us by His Spirit. “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come”. (John 16:13)

And so, 1 Co. 2:9-13 states: “But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth not man, but the Spirit of God, Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual”.

The same helper (the Spirit of God our Father) who dwelt and does dwell in Jesus now dwells in us. Jesus states: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”. (John 14:10)

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter (helper), that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”. (John 14:16-17)

Hi All:

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. He is God's person or personality, and not a third person. This could not be stated any plainer than is stated 1 Co. 2:10. Jesus rightly refers to him as he or him, but he is not a third person, but God's person.

Leviticus 11:44-45 God speaking to the nation of Israel states: “For I am the Lord your God: ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. For I am the Lord that bringeth you out of the Land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall be holy, for I am holy”.

December 1, 2006 at 2:01 am#33458

Participant

Quote

Hi All:

Sorry! But no apples. Did God send his own personality?

Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom [hos] the Father will send in my name he [ekeinos] shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Whom-hos which means…who

He-ekeinos which means… he, she

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos] I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he[ekeinos] shall testify of me:

Comfortor-parakletos…
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid

a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate

b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor

1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins

December 1, 2006 at 6:13 am#33467

Participant

I dont understand why the above post was not showing earier. so I saved it in notes came home and sighned in the post wasnt there. so I made the post and now it shows both.

Admin. Is this something that happens sometimes or am I doing something wrong?

December 1, 2006 at 1:27 pm#33483

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 30 2006,23:48)

Hi kenrch,
You say
“it would seem'

But to seem
is not the same as

“It is written”

Wait a minute aren't you one who depends on definitions to understand the word? Then how do you explain that “according to definitions” the Holy Spirit is a person?

December 2, 2006 at 12:54 am#33506

Participant

Hi WJ:

I have given you my understanding of the Holy Spirit, and as part of my morning prayer routine, I ask God to correct me if I am teaching any thing that is not his Word or doing any thing that is not His will, and so, if my understanding of this subject is wrong, I welcome His correction.

I can't add anything to what I have already stated, but I can ask you a few questions. What is your understanding of the Holy Spirit? Is Jesus referring to the Holy Spirit dwelling in him when he says, “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the works”. (John 14:10) Or when he says, “And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: BUT YE KNOW HIM FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU”. (John 14:17)

If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done?

“But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)

The Father and the Son are one in the Spirit of Holiness.

God Bless

December 3, 2006 at 6:57 am#33554

Participant

Quote

Hi WJ:

If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done?

“But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)

The Father and the Son are one in the Spirit of Holiness.

God Bless

Its seems that you have all ready made your mind up.

You are doing the right thing by praying and asking God to show you.

The Holy Spirit is our teacher and will lead us into all truth. If we rely on the voice of the Holy Spirit which is also the voice of the good shepard, he will not lead us the wrong way.

Prov 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

December 4, 2006 at 6:32 pm#33631

Participant

Hi 94,
Indeed you should decide to agree with the TRUTH that he is the Son of God.
Do not join the throng that screams that he is a liar.

December 4, 2006 at 11:03 pm#33662

Participant

Hi Nick and WJ:

God has corrected me many a time. I have made many mistakes in interpreting scripture, but I have been praying for God to correct me if I am teaching any thing that is not is word for 26+ years, and not the subject of the “Trinity” I have asked God to show me if the doctrine of the “Trinity” is correct, and the answer that I get is that there is nothing said in the scriptures about a “Trinity”. Nevertheless, if someone can show me by the scriptures that the doctrine is correct, I am humble enough to accept correction.

And so, WJ please explain how you arive at this doctrine. Is it possible that you could be wrong WJ? God is not the the author of confusion.

December 4, 2006 at 11:07 pm#33663

Participant

Also, WJ:

You did not answer any of the questions that I asked? For someone that is sure of the “Trinity” being correct, it seems that you would be able to answer my questions in order to convince me.

December 5, 2006 at 10:43 pm#33727

Participant

Quote

Hi WJ:

If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done?

“But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)

The Father and the Son are one in the Spirit of Holiness.

Hi Nick and WJ:

And so, WJ please explain how you arive at this doctrine. Is it possible that you could be wrong WJ? God is not the the author of confusion.

Also, WJ:

You did not answer any of the questions that I asked? For someone that is sure of the “Trinity” being correct, it seems that you would be able to answer my questions in order to convince me.

Hi 94

First of all in response to your last post, there is nothing I can say about the trinitarian view to convince you.

All I can do is give you scripture that I believe supports this view. The Holy Spirit has to be the one that convinces us of all truth.

Also I cannot prove to you the Trinitarian view by quoting scripture. In fact, any one who says that they fully understand The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is not being sincere and honest in light of all of the scriptures.

For every scripture that I quote in support of the Trinitarian view there are scriptures that would be thrown back to deny it. This is a debate that has been going on for centurys and continues.

Surely if it was black and white then it would have been settled 100s of years ago. So here we are.
Both sides have some valid points, but there is only one truth. I believe that the Trinitarian view best describes the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in light of all the scriptures.

I will be using KJV not because I believe it is the only Authorized version but because this is what I am used to.

You say…

Quote

What is your understanding of the Holy Spirit?

I believe the Holy Spirit is “another” person of the Godhead.

Godhead – three greek words..

Theios:
A general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks.

Translated in Acts 17:29 – Godhead, in 2 Peter 1:3 – devine, and 2 Peter 1:4 –devine

Theiotes
Divinity, divine nature

Translated in Romans 1:20 – Godhead.

Theiotes comes from the root word Theios meaning, a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks.

Theotes
1) deity, the state of being God, Godhead
Translated in Colossians 2:9 – Godhead

There is some debate over the translation of the word Godhead. Many translators used the word Godhead because a close study of the words denotes a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks. And in keeping with all of the scriptures they used this word.

This would be consistant with Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew word Elohim (translated “God” in Genesis 1:1) actually indicates more than one divine personality.
This same plural form is used over 2,500 times in the Old Testament.

While it is true the same word was used for other beings besides God.

We know that no other being took part in the creation. So there is two classes of beings in the universe. Creator and created. Pure and simple.

A literal translation of Deuteronomy 6:4 explains it very well.

“Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity.”

Also we know of…
John 1:1 “The Word was with God, and the Word was God”

The following translations interpreted Theotes in Col 2:9 as Godhead…
KJV, ASV, YLT, Darbys, Websters, HNV,.

So I leave this debate to the latin and greek scholars.

But, I see in light of all the scriptures that God is plural, and therefore Godhead is an appropriate description of him.

Col 2:9,10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Father, Son and Holy Spirit dwelling in Christ in bodily form.

You say…

Quote

Is Jesus referring to the Holy Spirit dwelling in him when he says, “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me he doeth the works”. (John 14:10)

Yes the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, and the Father Spoke from heaven “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.

This would show that the Holy Spirit and the Father are separate, and yet we know that the Father also dwells in Jesus. How is this?

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth, [ekporeuomai] from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Spirit proceedeth, [ekporeuomai] from the Father.. ekporeuomai means:
1) to go forth, go out, depart
2) metaph.
a) to come forth, to issue, to proceed
1) of feelings, affections, deeds, sayings

By the Spirit proceeding from the Father we know the Spirit is the same essence or substance as the Father. He is The Spirit of God.

Trinitarians hold to the view that the Spirit of God is God and yet is distinct and separate from the Father!

Hard to swallow to say the least. But we are speaking of God here. He dosnt fit into our finite minds.

Trinitarians do not throw away the scriptures or sweep them under a rug because we don’t understand them.

Those who deny this (while I will get blasted for this Ill say it anyway), are not being honest in their interpretation of all of the scriptures.

So lets look at what Jesus says about the Spirit.

A closer view of the scripture here is Jesus calls the Spirit Comforter(not
spirit of the Father nor his own spirit to come), and that he will SEND him unto us. Did Jesus send himself or did Jesus send the Father? Now if the Spirit here is the Father then Jesus would be greater than the Father to send the Father.

So the Spirit is another.

Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another[allos] Comforter [parakletos], that he may abide with you for ever;

Another – [allos], which means:
another, other.

Its translated AV – other(s) 81 times , another 62, some 11, one 4, misc 2;

160 times in the new testament this word was used in describing something other than.

Comforter – parakletos, which means:
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor

The Father shall Give you ANOTHER COMFORTER, one called to your side, one who will plead for you as an intercessor.

Rom 8:26,27
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Particularly notice vrs 27. He the spirit maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God!

Back to Jn 14:16

Now if Jesus was meaning the Holy Spirit was the Father, this would make no sence.
Not to mention that untill this point Jesus has solely used the title Father, and now all of a sudden he reveals the Holy Spirit to them and still refers to the Father.

Now Jesus says….

John 14:17
Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Here we see Jesus speaks of the Spirit as one the world can’t receive because the world dosn’t see him nor knows him.

Again if this were the Father, why would he not speak of the Father rather than Speak of the Spirit?

Now lets examine and dissect some of the words Jesus uses in speaking of the Spirit the Comforter.

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos] I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he [ekeinos] shall testify of me:

These are the greek definitions of the words above in brackets.

Parakletos,
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor

ekeinos
he, she

Erchomai
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

hos
who, which, what, that

Heautou
himself, herself, itself, themselves

akouo
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

lambano
1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self

hodegeo
1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance to

laleo
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds

anaggello
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearse

Now this shows plainly that The Holy Spirit is another and that the Spirit is not just a power or force from God.

We see here that the Spirit thinks, speaks, guides, teaches, hears. A force or power dosn’t do that. If it did (as many claim here) and was not a personality then it would still be a separate being from God. Which I find more weird than saying that the Spirit is God, One with the Father and the Son.

Jesus also says….
John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom [hos] the world cannot receive, because it seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]: but ye know him [autos]; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”.

There are many other scriptures pointing to the Spirit of God as a person.

I have dealt mostly with the Spirit because I believe if a person can begin to understand the Spirit of God and his relationship in the Godhead then they will understand the relationship of Jesus and the Father in the Godhead.

Many don’t have a problem with the Father and the Son as being deity or God (theos). In fact they say that Jesus is God, (a lessor God) because the Father says he is. Whats up with that?

Unless Jesus is God one with the Father then the scriptures are broken.

Matt 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Jesus knew the ten commandments.

Exod 20:3-5
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that

Yet we see men calling Jesus Lord and Master whom they say they do because God said so. But ask yourself could anyone but God be all that Jesus is? Would God the Father command us to bow the knee and serve Jesus calling him Lord and master if he were not God, one with the Father?

Not that he isn’t the Son but that he is ONE with God in everyway.

By him all things were created and with him was no
t anything created and by him all things consist and he upholds all things by the word of his power. God.

Isa 43:11
I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.

Following is a list of scriptures showing all three. I borrowed these from CB.

Matt. 28:19 Baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit

11 Cor. 13:14 Grace of Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit.

11 Cor. 1:21,22 He Who establishes in Christ, anointed us is God, and given us the Spirit

1 Thess. 5:18-19 Will of God in Christ Jesus…quench not the Spirit.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Jude 20-21 Praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of Jesus Christ.

Notice also that ALL THREE MEMBERS were present at creation

Genesis 1:1,2 In the beginning GOD(Elohiym-plural) created the heavens and the earth…And the Spirit of God (Elohiym-plural) was hovering over the face of the the waters.

Genesis 1:26 And God (Elohiym-plural) said, …..
“Let US make man in OUR image…so God (Elohiym-plural) created man in His image..male and female He created THEM.

Col. 1:15 “By Him [Christ] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, …all things were created through Him and for Him.”

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Isaiah 9:6
Christ's NAME, carries the Full Godhead:

“Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given and His NAME shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The One God (Godhead) is comprised of the Father, the Prince of Peace (Christ) and the Counselor (Holy Spirit)

You say….

Quote

If it is God in three persons, and they are co-equal, who makes the decisions or do they have a meeting to decide what is going to be done?

We can not think of God only in human terms. There is no committee. They are One. One does nothing without the other. God is not divided. He is one God in three persons.

Again, a literal translation of Deuteronomy 6:4 explains it very well.

“Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity.”

You say…

Quote

“But to us (to me) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)

Remember the context of this scripture.

Rom 8:5,6
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Amen, there are many Lords and gods, BUT TO US there is ONE GOD- the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Father of whom are all things.
Jesus Christ by whom are all things.

One creator. All else is created.

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

[/B]

December 5, 2006 at 11:33 pm#33731

Participant

Hi WJ:

Thanks, for giving me this detailed information relative to views on the Trinity. This a lot of information and I'll have to do some studying before I respond to your comments.

I can say this. I asked God in prayer why he used Elohym the plural instead of the singular, and the response that I got was because He is the God of gods and the Lord of lords. (De 10:17) There is only one God but His divine nature is being formed in us as his children. Jesus is the express image of His person, and so when God is finished with us we should have Jesus' personality. (Psalm 82, John 10:33-37)

Ultimately, what matters is that God confirm either your teaching or mine with the same kind of miracles that he did in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles. God will not confirm a lie.

If we join hands in prayer asking God to bring us into unity, He will do it.

God Bless

December 6, 2006 at 3:38 am#33736