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Quote Hi W,
If Jesus is God,
has never been separate from God either before or after his conception
then in what way is he to you the Son of God?NH
Jn 8:18
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Quote Hi W,
If Jesus is God,
has never been separate from God either before or after his conception
then in what way is he to you the Son of God?Jn 8:18
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Quote I do not call God my brother/sister, He is my Father.
To say Christ is God, you are saying “you are a brother to God”, You guys are not thinking simple terms.Olive
Jesus was also a man my friend! This is the beautiful incarnation of God uniting with man through Jesus. Only God could do that.:)
Quote Hi,
So what distinguishes a son from his parent\s?
Sons derive their own life from another and are beings in their own right.
Sons exist apart from the parent and are not constantly reliant on the parent for life.
Sons have independant insight and a will of their own and can make choices.
Sons can be in a relationship with their parent and they can love one another.
Sons can be given roles and work apart from their parent.
Sons can have glory of their own apart from that of the parent.
Sons never remain a part of their parents but can become united with them.NH
Try to apply these principles to The Son of God.
Hi W,
You say
“Has God left his throne? You bet ya”The heavens cannot contain God but God IS in heaven.
Ps 123
” 1Unto thee lift I up mine eyes, O thou that dwellest in the heavens.”
Is 66
“Isaiah 66:1
Thus says the LORD,” Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool Where then is a house you could build for Me?And where is a place that I may rest?”Matt 6
” 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
The rest of His work is by His own Spirit.
gen 1
” 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. “
And God manifests by his Spirit.
ps 139
” 7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. “
Even in us.
Eph 2
” 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2006,01:10) Quote I do not call God my brother/sister, He is my Father.
To say Christ is God, you are saying “you are a brother to God”, You guys are not thinking simple terms.Olive
Jesus was also a man my friend! This is the beautiful incarnation of God uniting with man through Jesus. Only God could do that.:)
Hi W,
So Jesus was a man, and God came to live in him?
God is of three persons you tell us so three persons came to live in one?
Does that not make four?
Doesn't scripture say that those who do not say that Jesus, the Son of God, came in the flesh are antichrist?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2006,01:12) Quote Hi,
So what distinguishes a son from his parent\s?
Sons derive their own life from another and are beings in their own right.
Sons exist apart from the parent and are not constantly reliant on the parent for life.
Sons have independant insight and a will of their own and can make choices.
Sons can be in a relationship with their parent and they can love one another.
Sons can be given roles and work apart from their parent.
Sons can have glory of their own apart from that of the parent.
Sons never remain a part of their parents but can become united with them.NH
Try to apply these principles to The Son of God.
Hi W,
No problem,
but the son you know never truly became a son
but remained and remains forever as one with God?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2006,01:07) Quote Hi W,
If Jesus is God,
has never been separate from God either before or after his conception
then in what way is he to you the Son of God?Jn 8:18
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Hi w,
So you show us a scripture that speaks of two beings yet you continue to claim that they are part of the same one?Hi w,
You say
“If he was not everywhere how could he know and number the hairs on your head? Or know every thought that you have!? Of course it is by his Spirit which is who he is! If the Spirit of God which can be everywhere all the time and knowing all things and having all power is not God then the “The Spirit would be greater than God” which is foolishness! Why do mortal men try to limit God to a Physical place when he is a Spiritual being?”On the one hand you say God is a spirit and that spirit is everywhere all the time and yet you claim that Spirit is another person in Him??
Hi w,
You say
“Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.”Inference is a poor witness to truth.
God is never separate from His own Spirit and manifests everywhere through that amazing Spirit while being enthroned in heaven.
BTW when did God LEAVE heaven, shown in scripture, as you say He did??
Quote NH you say…..
Hi W,
You say
“Has God left his throne? You bet ya”The heavens cannot contain God but God IS in heaven.
Ps 123
” 1Unto thee lift I up mine eyes, O thou that dwellest in the heavens.”
Is 66
“Isaiah 66:1
Thus says the LORD,” Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?”The answer to your question technically is no.
I was making a point.
God can and is anywhere he wants to be.
But why is this NH?
Its because the throne of God is the rule of God. So wherever he is, there is his throne. You say he is in heaven. True, but where is heaven. Well Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within us. So if the Kingdom of God (which is the Spiritual realm by which we are born into) is within us, then the rule of God is in us to.How is this done?
Does this mean that there is not a Physical place the Father dwells?As you well quoted above Isa 66:1 Thus says the LORD,” Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?”
The answer is yes and no. God is Spirit so there is no physical temple or place that he would dwell, however we do have Jesus Body which is both physical and Spiritual. Where is Christ Body? Somewhere out there in the vastness of the universe I suppose, maybe what Paul calls the third heaven.
What do I mean? That God can be and he is anywhere he wants to be?
Gen 11:5
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.Exod. 19:20
And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses [up] to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.Num 11:25
And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
II Sam 22:10
He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness [was] under his feet.The above scriptures show that YHWY could come down and manifest himself in a cloud or a pillar of fire etc.
But does that mean he lays aside his power that holds the atoms together and the universe or that he forsook his rule while he is tending to man? No.
God manifest himself for men.
His manifestations are for us and the creation.
God has no limits!
This is why he Gave us Jesus, The express image of who he is. Everything that he is and was in Power and Glory has been given to him. For Jesus was with him and came into the world to bring us back to him.
He gave us Jesus, so we could see and know who is. But we only know in part now.
All the Fullness of the Godhead dwells in him. And yes he dwells in the Body of Christ which is the true church.
How is this? ….By his Spirit!
So the Spirit of God, fills the Church, unites the Church, makes intercession, convicts, teaches, strengthens, heals, cast out demons, comforts, leads, gives gifts, bears fruit, guides, reveals to us the deep things of God, speaks, is grieved, is quenched, is blasphemed, is the water of life, quickens, draws men to Jesus, gives eternal life, raises from the dead, is everywhere, hears all things, sees all things, created all things, upholds all things, and fills all things
If you look at only the few things I mentioned that the Spirit of God does, you will see these are the things the Father and the Son does.
And our Lord Jesus refers to him the Spirit as…. he, whom, and him.
You believe as you choose NH. But to me, the evidence is in as far as I’m concerned.
The Spirit of Of God is a live active person.
The problem we have NH. Is we are trying to understand the greatness, the limitlessness, the timelessness, the power, the presence, the Magnificence, the bigness, the smallness, and the Glory of the Creator of the universe with our little finite minds.
Paul the Apostle was a mighty man with great depth and revelation of our God and he calls it a mystery.
He also says….
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[15] Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
[16] That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
[17] That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
[18] May be able to comprehend [to lay hold of with the mind, to understand, perceive, learn], with all saints what is the breadth [suggesting great extent], and length, and depth[of the deep things of God], and height [heaven, metaph. rank, high station],
;
[19] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
[20] Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
[21] Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.Job 37:5
God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.Dan 2:22
He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.NH we have so much to learn my friend!
By the way you quoted….
Quote ps 139
” 7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. “
Even in us.
Notice the Psalmist uses the words “thy Spirit, “thy Presence”
and then vrs 8 “thou art there”, “thou art there”.I ask you a question NH.
Based on the scriptures who is it that teaches us, heals us, comforts us, gives us strength, unites us, gives us comfort, helps with our infrmitys, leads us, guides us?
Would I be wrong in saying God the Father? Or how about Jesus? Or how about the Holy Spirit?
These three are one my friend.
Quote Hi w,
You say
“Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.”Inference is a poor witness to truth.
God is never separate from His own Spirit and manifests everywhere through that amazing Spirit while being enthroned in heaven.
BTW when did God LEAVE heaven, shown in scripture, as you say He did??
You see this angers me NH. You say Jesus makes inferences and this is a poor witness to truth. Jesus own words a poor witness to truth?
LIES NH. Close your eyes to the truth and be blind if you will.
Quote On the one hand you say God is a spirit and that spirit is everywhere all the time and yet you claim that Spirit is another person in Him?? NH Im saying hes a person with scriptural proof, you are saying hes a power or force with no proof that thats all he is.
Hi w,
Some people have a view of God that He is an amorphous ethereal omnipresence. But they are confused with the mainfestation of God as His Spirit. God is a being that dwells in heaven. That is the reason Jesus told us to pray to him there.Hi w,
You say
“How is this? ….By his Spirit!So the Spirit of God, fills the Church, unites the Church, makes intercession, convicts, teaches, strengthens, heals, cast out demons, comforts, leads, gives gifts, bears fruit, guides, reveals to us the deep things of God, speaks, is grieved, is quenched, is blasphemed, is the water of life, quickens, draws men to Jesus, gives eternal life, raises from the dead, is everywhere, hears all things, sees all things, created all things, upholds all things, and fills all things”
So why would you want to make the Spirit another person from God, the Father?
Hi W,
You say
“Based on the scriptures who is it that teaches us, heals us, comforts us, gives us strength, unites us, gives us comfort, helps with our infrmitys, leads us, guides us?Would I be wrong in saying God the Father? Or how about Jesus? Or how about the Holy Spirit?
These three are one my friend.”
The One Spirit unites Father and Son, and does not replace them or add to them. That same ONE Spirit unites us in the body of Christ. Christ knew the heart of the Father by the Spirit.
1Cor 2
“11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.Hi w,
You quote ps 139
“ps 139
” 7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. “
Here the Spirit is spoken of as a manifestation of God Himself.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2006,06:54) Quote On the one hand you say God is a spirit and that spirit is everywhere all the time and yet you claim that Spirit is another person in Him?? NH Im saying hes a person with scriptural proof, you are saying hes a power or force with no proof that thats all he is.
Hi W,
We have scriptural evdence of the begettal of the Son of God in Ps 2.
Is there any evidence the Spirit has been begotten from God? Is the Spirit another Son to you?
Is this scriptural?You seem to see three divine spirits.
The Spirit of God
The Spirit of Christ
and
The Holy SpiritAm I correct?
The bible constantly speaks of THE SPIRIT.
Which one is this?If so then which is which of these?
Rom 8
” the Spirit of life
the Spirit of God
the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead
the Spirit of adoption..”?Then of course there is the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of wisdom.
Do we have to sort through and find out which is which?Does the Holy Spirit have a spirit too?
I think you will come to realise that there is ONE SPIRIT
NH you say about the words of Jesus….
“Inference is a poor witness to truth.”
If you don’t believe the words of Jesus and say that he was just making inferences when it does not agree with your doctrine, then you deny the Word of God.
If you deny The Lord Jesus words, and set out to establish your own view, then you have built your own doctrine on sinking sand. Everything else will be twisted and distorted to support your view.
II Peter 3:16 is also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest(strebloo, to twist, turn awry) as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
The greek word for wrest is strebloo, which can also mean….
1) to twist, turn awry
2) to torture, put to the rack
3) metaph. to pervert, of one who wrests or tortures language in a false sense
You do violence to the scriptures when you spin them for our own purpose.
Dangerous to say the least.Jesus Said…..
Jn 14:26
But the Comforter [parakletos], [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom [hos] the Father will send in my name, he[ekeinos] shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter [parakletos] is come, whom [hos] I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he [ekeinos] shall testify of me:Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter [parakletos] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him [autos] unto you.
[8] And when he [erchomai] is come, he [ekeinos] will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[13] Howbeit when he [ekeinos] , the Spirit of truth, is come, he [hodegeo] will guide you into all truth: for he [laleo] shall not speak of himself [heautou]; but whatsoever he [akouo] shall hear, that shall he [laleo] speak: and he [anaggello] will shew you things to come.
[14] He [ekeinos] shall glorify me: for he shall receive [lambano] of mine, and shall shew it unto you.These are the greek definitions of the words above in brackets.
Comforter… parakletos, 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessorHe… ekeinos ) he, she
Erchomai
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publichos
who, which, what, thatHeautou
himself, herself, itself, themselvesakouo
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
lambano
1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
hodegeo
1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance to
laleo
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
anaggello
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseJesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.
John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom [hos] the world cannot receive, because it seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]: but ye know him [autos]; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Notice he says “seeth him [autos] not, neither knoweth him [autos]”.
The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'}
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121.
That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person.There are many other scriptures pointing to the Spirit of God as a person.
Can it be any plainer?
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