Son?

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
I said
'I have no problem knowing that the Spirit is of God and it is entirely congruous that God in heaven does all His works on earth through His Spirit.”

and you said

“Whats your answer NH? Who is this Spirit that you speak of that is of or is
“congruous” with the Father?”

Are you misquoting me or putting words in my mouth?

God is Spirit and he has an amazing spirit from which He is never separate, by which He does His work and which manifests Him everywhere.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“I believe the answer is Because the Spirit is God.”

So if your God is a trinity then God, [Father Son and Spirit to you], is the Father of Jesus.

So Jesus is his own Father?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, I said 'I have no problem knowing that the Spirit is of God and it is entirely congruous that God in heaven does all His works on earth through His Spirit.” and you said “Whats your answer NH? Who is this Spirit that you speak of that is of or is “congruous” with the Father?” Are you misquoting me or putting words in my mouth? God is Spirit and he has an amazing spirit from which He is never separate, by which He does His work and which manifests Him everywhere.

NH

So God is a Spirit, which we know by Jn 4, and he has an amazing Spirit?

Is that right NH? So God has 2 Spirits. The Father himself who is in heaven and the Spirit that does his works on earth?

Do you see NH how foolish this sounds. And you try to make the trinitarian view look foolish.

There is one conclusion here MH. That is the Spirit of God is God or the Spirit of God is a force or power a seperate intity.

The Scriptures plainly show Father, Son and Holy Spirit, these three are one God. Plain and simple. Not Jesus is the Father or the comfortor is Jesus. But three Persons in One God.

Pure and simple No other way to view all of the scriptures.

Understand it or not. It is tne truest way to see our God revelaed in scripture.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
God is a Spirit being.
He does not have a visible body.
We are made in His image so the likeness is without flesh.
He is Soul and Spirit.

Ps 11
” 4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

6Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

7For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.”

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“The Scriptures plainly show Father, Son and Holy Spirit, these three are one God.”

Where is this trinity taught in scripture?
I missed it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, You say “I believe the answer is Because the Spirit is God.” So if your God is a trinity then God, [Father Son and Spirit to you], is the Father of Jesus. So Jesus is his own Father?

NH

How do you want me to answer your question?

You asked me why did Jesus say that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin, the greater sin you said?

The blaspheming  Jesus said was against the Holy Spirit. Why didnt he say its a greater sin to blaspheme the Father.

So I say its because the Spirit is God and you jump on the trinity thing.

So what gives NH? If I say it is the Father because he is grreater than the Son. Then how does the Spirit fit in here. Its the Spirit hes talking about NH. Not the Father.

You see NH how none of this makes sence to you because you hold a view of God that is not in scripture.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God is a Spirit being. He does not have a visible body. We are made in His image so the likeness is without flesh. He is Soul and Spirit. Ps 11 ” 4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. 5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. 7For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.”

NH

You really are confusing things now.

So God has a soul and I suppose you are saying that soul is his Spirit?

How could anyone get saved through a Gospel like this?

But if what you are saying  his Spirit is his soul then this makes his Spirit(soul) the “”person of the Father””. The soul as you know NH is the seat of the will the emotions and the intellect of a person.

Try to figure this out. And poeple think the trinity view is hard!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Posted: Nov. 28 2006,23:25 ——————————————————————————– Hi w, You say “The Scriptures plainly show Father, Son and Holy Spirit, these three are one God.” Where is this trinity taught in scripture? I missed it.

NH

YOu have been missing it my friend. Only the Spirit of the Lord can show it to you!!!!

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2006,07:34)

Hi 94, No. I was like Cornelius realising later that water baptism was required by God. You say “When a person confesses Jesus as their Lord, they are indicating by their confession first that they believe and then that they will strive to obey the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus Christ. “ So you are not speaking here os the OT law of course which was never applied to us, but the law of the Spirit. But do we STRIVE to obey Law now? Or are we led and empowered by grace? Heb 4 ” 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” Rom 11 “Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

Nick:

Jesus states: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, but to fulfil.  For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”.  (Matt. 5:17-18)

Romans 6:15-16 states: “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.  Know ye not that to whom ye yeild yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness”.

Grace means that we did not earn our salvation through perfect obedience to God's eternal law which is the Ten Commandments.

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.  Is he the God of the Jews only?  is he not also of the Gentiles?  Yes, of the Gentiles also:  Seeing it is God, which shall justify the circumcission by faith, and the uncircumcision by faith.  Do we then make void the law through faith?  God forbid: yea, we establish the law”. (Ro. 3:28-31)

Jesus said unto him (the lawyer who questioned which is the great commandment in the law), “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind .  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”. (Matt. 22:37-40)

The first four of the Ten Commandments relate to my obedience directly relative to God.  The last six relate to my obedience relative to my neighbor.  

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  Love worketh not ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law”.  (Ro. 13:9-10)

Jesus said:  “If ye love me, keep my commandments”.  And I do love him, and so I strive to obey him, but I make mistakes, and this is what grace is all about.  I can safely say “Because he lives, I can face tomorrow, and because he lives all fear is gone”.   Because he lives, I am confident of my future.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Posted: Nov. 28 2006,23:44   ——————————————————————————– Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2006,07:34) Hi 94, No. I was like Cornelius realising later that water baptism was required by God. You say “When a person confesses Jesus as their Lord, they are indicating by their confession first that they believe and then that they will strive to obey the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus Christ. “ So you are not speaking here os the OT law of course which was never applied to us, but the law of the Spirit. But do we STRIVE to obey Law now? Or are we led and empowered by grace? Heb 4 ” 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” Rom 11 “Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Nick: Jesus states: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, but to fulfil.  For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven”.  (Matt. 5:17-18) Romans 6:15-16 states: “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.  Know ye not that to whom ye yeild yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness”. Grace means that we did not earn our salvation through perfect obedience to God's eternal law which is the Ten Commandments. “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.  Is he the God of the Jews only?  is he not also of the Gentiles?  Yes, of the Gentiles also:  Seeing it is God, which shall justify the circumcission by faith, and the uncircumcision by faith.  Do we then make void the law through faith?  God forbid: yea, we establish the law”. (Ro. 3:28-31) Jesus said unto him (the lawyer who questioned which is the great commandment in the law), “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind .  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”. (Matt. 22:37-40) The first four of the Ten Commandments relate to my obedience directly relative to God.  The last six relate to my obedience relative to my neighbor.   “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  Love worketh not ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law”.  (Ro. 13:9-10) Jesus said:  “If ye love me, keep my commandments”.  And I do love him, and so I strive to obey him, but I make mistakes, and this is what grace is all about.  I can safely say “Because he lives, I can face tomorrow, and because he lives all fear is gone”.   Because he lives, I am confident of my future.

94

Praise God! Amen! Well said!  

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2006,23:30)

Quote Hi W, You say “I believe the answer is Because the Spirit is God.” So if your God is a trinity then God, [Father Son and Spirit to you], is the Father of Jesus. So Jesus is his own Father? NH How do you want me to answer your question? You asked me why did Jesus say that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin, the greater sin you said? The blaspheming  Jesus said was against the Holy Spirit. Why didnt he say its a greater sin to blaspheme the Father. So I say its because the Spirit is God and you jump on the trinity thing. So what gives NH? If I say it is the Father because he is grreater than the Son. Then how does the Spirit fit in here. Its the Spirit hes talking about NH. Not the Father. You see NH how none of this makes sence to you because you hold a view of God that is not in scripture.

Hi w,
The Spirit is the Spirit of the Father God.

[942767]

Hi WJ:

You said your real person is your spirit and I agreed with you that your spirit is who you are.  It is the life that you live that defines who you are.

Likewise, God's Spirit is the life that he lives.  It is his personality that is defined by what he does.

The Holy Ghost does all those things that you mentioned, but He (God's personality) does not speak of his own initiative.  It is God speaking to us by His Spirit.  “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come”.  (John 16:13)

And so, 1 Co. 2:9-13 states:  “But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  For what man knoweth things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth not man, but the Spirit of God,  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.  Which things also we speak not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual”.

The same helper (the Spirit of God our Father) who dwelt and does dwell in Jesus now dwells in us.  Jesus states: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?  the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”.  (John 14:10)

“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter (helper), that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:  but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”.  (John 14:16-17)

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“You asked me why did Jesus say that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin, the greater sin you said?

The blaspheming Jesus said was against the Holy Spirit. Why didnt he say its a greater sin to blaspheme the Father.

So I say its because the Spirit is God and you jump on the trinity thing.

So what gives NH? If I say it is the Father because he is grreater than the Son. Then how does the Spirit fit in here. Its the Spirit hes talking about NH. Not the Father.”

Lk 12
“8Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

9But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.”

To accept a trinity view of God is to deny God has a Son.
It is better to confess the Son before men than to deny him.

God, who is the Father, is greater than Jesus and to blaspheme the Spirit of the Father is to blaspheme God Himself but to blaspheme the lesser being, the Son of God, is forgiveable.

2Cor 5
” 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

No trinity was in Christ but God as Spirit dwelled in Him.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi w, You say “You asked me why did Jesus say that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin, the greater sin you said? The blaspheming  Jesus said was against the Holy Spirit. Why didnt he say its a greater sin to blaspheme the Father. So I say its because the Spirit is God and you jump on the trinity thing. So what gives NH? If I say it is the Father because he is grreater than the Son. Then how does the Spirit fit in here. Its the Spirit hes talking about NH. Not the Father.” Lk 12 “8Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.” To accept a trinity view of God is to deny God has a Son. It is better to confess the Son before men than to deny him. God, who is the Father, is greater than Jesus and to blaspheme the Spirit of the Father is to blaspheme God Himself but to blaspheme the lesser being, the Son of God, is forgiveable. 2Cor 5 ” 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” No trinity was in Christ but God as Spirit dwelled in Him.

NH

NH You say…..

Quote

To accept a trinity view of God is to deny God has a Son. It is better to confess the Son before men than to deny him.

Lies…..
NH why do you make such accusations? Show me in the hundreds possiby thousands of post made by those who hold a true trinitarian view on this sight where they have denied the Son.

Quote

God, who is the Father, is greater than Jesus and to blaspheme the Spirit of the Father is to blaspheme God Himself but to blaspheme the lesser being, the Son of God, is forgiveable.

Again NH Why did Jesus not use the Father when he said this. In every place when Jesus wanted to emphasize the Father he did.

But of course if you accept this view then you have to throw away all of your doctrine as being based on a faulty foundation.

So you say its because it is the Spirit of God the Father. And so you are satisfied this is what it means.

But not so fast

NH. If the Spirit of God is not God in your view but a power or force of God, then how can it be blasphemed against?
And if the Spirit of God is the Fathers Spirit(God is a Spirit) then the Spirit of God is God. If the Spirit of God is God then it is co-equal with God in every way. Power, presence, mind, will, Intellect, Glory,personality, all the attributes of God, because the Spirit is God.

Nh, would you say your Spirit is not you?

In your attacks aginst the trinitarian view, you might not want to use this scipture NH because it supports the trinitarian view.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
God is in heaven.
Heaven is His throne.
Earth is His footstool.
Do you think God has ever left heaven while manifesting Himself in so many ways and so many places?
It is not for us to presumptuously go beyond revelation and state that because the Spirit of God has so many amazing abilities that the Spirit must be a separate person from the Father.
Acts 5
” 1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. “

The Spirit of God fully represents God Himself.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
If Jesus is God,
has never been separate from God either before or after his conception
then in what way is he to you the Son of God?

[olive]

Quote

NH why do you make such accusations? Show me in the hundreds possiby thousands of post made by those who hold a true trinitarian view on this sight where they have denied the Son.

I do not call God my brother/sister, He is my Father.
To say Christ is God, you are saying “you are a brother to God”, You guys are not thinking simple terms.

[NickHassan]

I agree Olive.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
So what distinguishes a son from his parent\s?
Sons derive their own life from another and are beings in their own right.
Sons exist apart from the parent and are not constantly reliant on the parent for life.
Sons have independant insight and a will of their own and can make choices.
Sons can be in a relationship with their parent and they can love one another.
Sons can be given roles and work apart from their parent.
Sons can have glory of their own apart from that of the parent.
Sons never remain a part of their parents but can become united with them.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God is in heaven. Heaven is His throne. Earth is His footstool. Do you think God has ever left heaven while manifesting Himself in so many ways and so many places? It is not for us to presumptuously go beyond revelation and state that because the Spirit of God has so many amazing abilities that the Spirit must be a separate person from the Father.  Acts 5 ” 1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. “ The Spirit of God fully represents God Himself.

NH

You say…..

Quote

God is in heaven. Heaven is His throne. Earth is His footstool. Do you think God has ever left heaven while manifesting Himself in so many ways and so many places? It is not for us to presumptuously go beyond revelation and state that because the Spirit of God has so many amazing abilities that the Spirit must be a separate person from the Father

Is this all your view of God the Father NH?

God is in heaven, but what about the heavens?
Is God limited to his throne which the Psalmist writes of to give a small glimpse as to the nature of the God of the universe?
Has God left his throne? You bet ya. The heavens declare the Glory of the Lord.

Can the heavens contain him? What do you think holds all things together? Why do you think that he has an all seeing eye? He fills all things. God is in another realm. He is not limited to a physical place. God is Spirit.

I repeat a previous post…..
Why do we try to limit him? The beautiful and glorious thing about our God is he can be in one place and everywhere at the same time! God is not limited to time and space like we mere mortals!

If he was not everywhere how could he know and number the hairs on your head? Or know every thought that you have!? Of course it is by his Spirit which is who he is! If the Spirit of God which can be everywhere all the time and knowing all things and having all power is not God then the “The Spirit would be greater than God” which is foolishness! Why do mortal men try to limit God to a Physical place when he is a Spiritual being?

How Great is God? Can you fathom it?

Long millenniums ago, God said, “Let there be light!” With that command a universe of raging infernos called stars came into existence, and have been transferring their energies into limitless energy-containing systems ever since. Even today, the seeming myriad's of stars and nebulae continue to be breathtaking and inspiring panoply. When you go out and look up to the sky on a clear dark night, when the heavens look like dark blue velvet, and the stars like diamonds, it seems as though there were no end to the number of twinkling points of light. You would think that it was quite impossible to count the starry hosts, and that it would be just about as easy to count the grains of sand on the seashore. Really, however, there are not really so many stars to be seen with the unaided eye as you would imagine. They have often been counted, and the result is that the number of stars that an ordinary eye can see at any one time is somewhere about 2,000. If you have very keen eyes, you may be able to see another 500 or so; but there are not many people who can see 2,500 stars, and if you can see 2,000 you do fairly well.
By contrast, the Bible states in Jer. 33:22 that “the host of heaven **CANNOT BE NUMBERED**.” During the thousand's of years before Galileo's invention of the telescope, such a statement was considered to be either false or at least a gross exaggeration. The stars uncountable? The universe, they said, was too small to contain that many stars! However, using such giant telescopes as the “200 inch” on Mount Palomar in California, astronomers have estimated that there are billions of billions of blazing suns- but He calls each of them by name–He has ascribed a nature, a power, a purpose to each!
To get some idea of the vastness of the universe…the star known as “Alpha Hercules” is more than 2,400,000,000 miles across. It is so huge that our own sun, together with the earth (at its distance of about 93 million miles from the sun) could be placed 25 times IN A ROW across the middle of this super giant star. To fly through-this star from one end to the other (if it were possible!) at 25,000 miles per hour your rocket would take 11 years! What distances! What a GOD! Psalm 19 well says, “The heavens declare the glory of God.” The stars shine on in their glory as in the beginning. Millenniums and cycles have gone by, kingdoms have arisen and slowly passed away. Yet the stars' brightness is not dimmed, nor their force abated. The dew of youth still seems fresh upon them. No faltering motion reveals the decrepitude of age. These shine on in undiminished glory through all the ages of time.
You or I in words cannot begin to explain nor understand the Greatness of our God!

NH. You say…..

Quote

It is not for us to presumptuously go beyond revelation and state that because the Spirit of God has so many amazing abilities that the Spirit must be a separate person from the Father

I didn’t say it. Jesus did. I repeat again….

If you don’t believe this then you deny the words of our Lord!
Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
This is the first time Jesus speaks of the Comforter that we know. Notice he says “seeth him not, neither knoweth him”.

The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'}
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121.
That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person.

Can it be any plainer?

NH. Don’t just come back at me and explain why in YOUR view this cant be right. But show me evidence. Tell me how you see these scriptures.

Again, the Trinitarian view puts all the Word of God in perspective.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three separate persons, One God.

NH. You say….

Quote

The Spirit of God fully represents God Himself.

The Spirit of God is fully God. The universe would ceas
e to exist and cave in on itself if this were not so.:)

[Author]

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