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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2006,06:33) Now God is the Father as Jesus said.
Jesus is the image of God and has become united with Him in eternity in that Spirit.
But first he was a Son, and then the Son became united with God.
That is real, agreed, and significant unity.Quite unlike the natural unity between God and His finger.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 22 2006,09:09) Hi Is 1.18,
Why should we make God work according to the rules of our understanding?
Hi W,
God is one with His own Spirit just as we are one with our spirit.
His Son became one with Him.Quote Hi W,
God is one with His own Spirit just as we are one with our spirit.
His Son became one with Him.NH
My Spirit man is the real me that lives in a body.I am a Spirit who has a soul who lives in a Body. My Spirit man was born of his Spirit when I was born again. If any man be in Christ he is a New creation. Now I am the Lords.
They that are the Lords are one Spirit! My Spirit the real Me is one with Christ.
Hi W,
You say
“My Spirit man is the real me that lives in a body.I am a Spirit who has a soul who lives in a Body. My Spirit man was born of his Spirit when I was born again. If any man be in Christ he is a New creation. Now I am the Lords.They that are the Lords are one Spirit! My Spirit the real Me is one with Christ.'
Indeed we who are in Christ are one spirit with him in God's Holy Spirit.
But we have life in ourselves before we are baptised in the Spirit of Life.
That is why we must be born again, born from above.Rom 8
“16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: “You are a man in a body enlivened by the human spirit lent from God till it returns to God at death. If you are reborn from above the Spirit of God remains with you even after death to raise you up into a new body at the first resurrection.
Rom 8
“11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. “If you were a spirit you would not speak of “my spirit”, but “I” or “me”
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Nov. 24 2006,07:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 24 2006,06:33) Now God is the Father as Jesus said.
Jesus is the image of God and has become united with Him in eternity in that Spirit.
But first he was a Son, and then the Son became united with God.
That is real, agreed, and significant unity.Quite unlike the natural unity between God and His finger.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 22 2006,09:09) Hi Is 1.18,
Why should we make God work according to the rules of our understanding?
Hi Is 1 1.8,
Do you see some inconsistency between these statements?
I do not design a trinity God but work from what he has shown us about Himself.Quote If you were a spirit you would not speak of “my spirit”, but “I” or “me” NH
You know I have heard you speak about others building on a solid foundation.
It looks like to me you need to go back and examine you foundation, for this is a foundational truth NH..
You say….
Quote If you were a spirit you would not speak of “my spirit”, but “I” or “me” So I guess you disagree with the Apostles and Prophets of Old!
Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.Rom 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;I Cor 16:18
For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.II Cor 2:13
I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.How about some Old Testament…
Isa 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.Psa 143:4
Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate.Dan 7:15
I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of [my] body, and the visions of my head troubled me.So whats wrong with the Father referring to himself as my Spirit, seems he has done this all through scripture?
Hi W,
I see your point. Thanks.
Spirit is used in scripture in several senses with regard to man.
The human spirit that comes from God, gives us life and returns to God.
It refers to the Holy Spirit indwelling men.
It is also used as soul-spirit.
And it is used to refer to beings without bodies.
The disciples throught they were seeing a bodiless spirit when they saw Jesus walking on the lake.Yes we serve God in our spirit.
We worship God in our temple in spirit.God does not refer to Himself as “my Spirit” but refers to his Spirit.
He is in heaven but His Spirit imbues and enlivens all of His creation.Hi All:
I like WJ believe my spirit (personality or character) is my person. I like God have a soul made up of a mind, a free will, and emotions. When I confessed Jesus as Lord, my soul became subjected to God through him. My Father by His Spirit has taught me His word from the example of life of my Lord Jesus. God has corrected me many a time (as a Father who loves his son).
“And have ye forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou are rebuked of him: for whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence; shall not we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby”. (Hebrews 12:5-11)
My Father dwells within me by his Holy Spirit because I am subjected to Him through my Lord Jesus. My spirit is being formed as He teaches me his Word and I apply it to my daily life.
“…Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day”. (John 6:53-54)
But no, I don't believe in the doctrine of “trinity”. 1Co. 2:9-13 states: “But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered inot the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea,the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth not man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which thi9ngs also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Granted Romans 8:26 is not an easy passage of scripture to understand, but from the above it is clear that the Holy Ghost is not a third person but is God's Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals God's thoughts to us through the written Word.
God also knows what we need before we ask (Matt. 6:8), but we have to ask in order to receive. “Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yte have not, because ye ask not”. (James 4:2) “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
“Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be utttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to his purpose”. (Romans 8:26-27)
The Spirit of God knows what is in God's heart and also knows what is in our hearts. Apparently, because in order to receive what we need we must ask God for what we need. The Spirit of God intercedes in our behalf with needs which we are not able to ask ourselves. God's throne is in heaven. The prayer is directed there because his soul is there.
Hi 94,
You say.
“When I confessed Jesus as Lord, my soul became subjected to God through him.”Certainly Paul exhorted the SAVED Jewish converts in Rom 10 to confess Jesus so that the Spirit could start to lead them.
Is this what you mean because Paul was not teaching there a new way different to the DOOR of Jesus, the message of rebirth that Peter preached at Pentecost?
Acts 2
” 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. “
Nick:
What I hear the apostle Paul teaching in Romans 10 is that we are saved by Faith and not by perfect obedience to the Law of Moses.
“For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth”. (Romans 10:3-4)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is not difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”. (Romans 10:9-12)
When a person confesses Jesus as their Lord, they are indicating by their confession first that they believe and then that they will strive to obey the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus Christ.
As we have discussed previously, not every one's experience is the same . Some have received the Holy Ghost like Cornelius. I received the Holy Ghost when I turned to God in a moment of desperation when my wife was going to leave me and take my son with her 26 years ago. You apparently received the Holy Ghost after you were baptized in water which is great. Every believer should be baptized in water.
And so to answer your question I mean that I have been born again and I am subjected to God through my Lord in that I am striving to obey his commandments.
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God”. (1 Co. 11:3)
Hi 94,
No. I was like Cornelius realising later that water baptism was required by God.
You say
“When a person confesses Jesus as their Lord, they are indicating by their confession first that they believe and then that they will strive to obey the commandments that came from God to humanity through Jesus Christ. “
So you are not speaking here os the OT law of course which was never applied to us, but the law of the Spirit.
But do we STRIVE to obey Law now?
Or are we led and empowered by grace?Heb 4
” 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.”Rom 11
“Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”Quote Hi All: I like WJ believe my spirit (personality or character) is my person. I like God have a soul made up of a mind, a free will, and emotions. When I confessed Jesus as Lord, my soul became subjected to God through him. My Father by His Spirit has taught me His word from the example of life of my Lord Jesus. God has corrected me many a time (as a Father who loves his son).
“And have ye forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou are rebuked of him: for whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence; shall not we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby”. (Hebrews 12:5-11)
My Father dwells within me by his Holy Spirit because I am subjected to Him through my Lord Jesus. My spirit is being formed as He teaches me his Word and I apply it to my daily life.
“…Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day”. (John 6:53-54)
But no, I don't believe in the doctrine of “trinity”. 1Co. 2:9-13 states: “But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered inot the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea,the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth not man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which thi9ngs also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Granted Romans 8:26 is not an easy passage of scripture to understand, but from the above it is clear that the Holy Ghost is not a third person but is God's Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals God's thoughts to us through the written Word.
God also knows what we need before we ask (Matt. 6:8), but we have to ask in order to receive. “Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yte have not, because ye ask not”. (James 4:2) “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
“Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be utttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to his purpose”. (Romans 8:26-27)
The Spirit of God knows what is in God's heart and also knows what is in our hearts. Apparently, because in order to receive what we need we must ask God for what we need. The Spirit of God intercedes in our behalf with needs which we are not able to ask ourselves. God's throne is in heaven. The prayer is directed there because his soul is there.
Hi 94.
You say….
Quote Granted Romans 8:26 is not an easy passage of scripture to understand, but from the above it is clear that the Holy Ghost is not a third person but is God's Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals God's thoughts to us through the written Word. I would ask you, what is your definition of a person? Because if Gods Spirit is not a person, then we violate the scriptures.
The Holy Spirit :
·Speaks, Acts 13:2
·Hears, John 16:13
·Teaches, John 14:26
·Intercedes, Rom 8:26
·Testifies, John 15:26
·Guides, John 16:13
·Commands, Acts 16:6,7
·Appoints, Acts 20:28
·Leads, Rom 8:14
·Reproves, and convicts of sin, John 16:8
·Seals, God's promise in believers' hearts, Eph 1:13,14
·shapes the individual's and community's life to Christ's, Rom 8:1-17In Scripture, the Holy Spirit has intellect, emotions, and will, and can be grieved.
This is all stuff that can't be true of an emanation or a (or even 'The') Force. That is usually how we experience the Spirit and know of the Spirit's presence, but that is not what the Spirit is .Spell this out in capital letters: THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON. He is not enthusiasm. He is not courage. He is not energy. He is not the personification of all good qualities. He has individuality. He has will and intelligence. He has hearing. He has knowledge and sympathy and ability to love and see and think. He can hear, speak, desire, grieve and rejoice. He is a Person.
If you don’t believe this then you deny the words of our Lord!
Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
This is the first time Jesus speaks of the comfortor that we know. Notice he says “seeth him not, neither knoweth him”.The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'}
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121.
That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person.Believe the scriptures my friend and not some made up concept of what the Spirit of God is.
The teachings of man concerning the Holy Spirit being some power or force of God is false, and it comes
because they cannot explain the distinction between The Holy Spirit and God the Father who is a Spirit
and Jesus who’s Spirit dwells in us.
It offends and disgraces the Father to speak of his Spirit as merely some power or force.
Mk 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Lk 12:12
For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Acts 9:31
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Acts 13:2-4
2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Acts 20:28
28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
I Cor 2:10-13
10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Please my friend. Prayerfully read and consider that the above scriptures which are only a few is irrefutable evidence that the Spirit of God is a person.Blessings
Hi w,
Where does scripture say the Spirit of God
is not the Spirit of God
but another person?
I missed it.Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than against Jesus?
If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus?
Matt 1
” 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
Quote Hi w,
Where does scripture say the Spirit of God
is not the Spirit of God
but another person?
I missed it.Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than against Jesus?
If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus?
Matt 1
” 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
NH
You say…
Quote Where does scripture say the Spirit of God
is not the Spirit of God
but another person?
I missed it.Do you believe the Words of Jesus?
Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that **he** may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; **whom** the world cannot receive, because it seeth **him** not, neither knoweth **him**: but ye know **him**; for **he** dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.This is the first time Jesus speaks of the comfortor that we know of. Notice he says “seeth him not, neither knoweth him”.
The word for “ him” is autos {ow-tos'}
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
It was translated AV – him 1952, his 1084, their 318, he 252, her 242, they 121.That’s over 3000 times in the New Testament “autos” is used referring to a person.
Look at the scripture close NH, not with your telescopic view.
You say…
Quote If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus? Jesus had no physical Father NH. His Father is Spirit, God.
But ask yourself this NH. If the Holy Spirit is just a force or power to you a spirit which is of God and not God himself, and it was the Holy Spirit that over shadowed Mary and Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit. Then who is the Father of Jesus.
Your view of God and the Spirit has holes bigger than the sun NH.
Hi W,
You say
“Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.”
So
you
derive
from
this
that
the Spirit
must be
a person??We do not derive truths from scripture.
We find them taught there.
What you have derived is not taught, and opposes what is taught – God sends His Spirit.
Hi W,.
“If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus?”Answer this honestly w.
You say the Spirit is a person separate from the Father.
Scripture says Jesus was CONCEIVED by the Spirit in Mary just as John the baptist was CONCEIVED in Elizabeth-scripture uses the same greek word.I have no problem knowing that the Spirit is of God and it is entirely congruous that God in heaven does all His works on earth through His Spirit.
But you have divided God so you must decide on the parenthood of Jesus.
Hi w,
You missed this one.“Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than against Jesus?”
The reason is that the Spirit is of God, and God is greater than His Son.
Jesus said so.Quote Hi W,
You say
“Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a person.”
So
you
derive
from
this
that
the Spirit
must be
a person??We do not derive truths from scripture.
We find them taught there.
What you have derived is not taught, and opposes what is taught – God sends His Spirit.
NH
The word derive means….
1 a : to take, receive, or obtain especially from a specified source b : to obtain (a chemical substance) actually or theoretically from a parent substanceSo when you feast on the word of God found in the scriptures, do you eat the pages?
Why don’t you make sence. You talk about deriving from the scriptures as being somehow wrong when most of what you know has been derived from the scriptures.
There you go dancing around the truth of what our Lord said about the Comfortor.
How sad!
Quote Hi W,.
“If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus?”Answer this honestly w.
You say the Spirit is a person separate from the Father.
Scripture says Jesus was CONCEIVED by the Spirit in Mary just as John the baptist was CONCEIVED in Elizabeth-scripture uses the same greek word.I have no problem knowing that the Spirit is of God and it is entirely congruous that God in heaven does all His works on earth through His Spirit.
But you have divided God so you must decide on the parenthood of Jesus.
NH
You say….
Quote If there are three persons in God which person is the physical father of Jesus?” Answer this honestly w.
You say the Spirit is a person separate from the Father.
Scripture says Jesus was CONCEIVED by the Spirit in Mary just as John the baptist was CONCEIVED in Elizabeth-scripture uses the same greek word.I did NH. If you would read my post then you would see that I did.
I said…
Quote Jesus had no physical Father NH. His Father is Spirit, God. But ask yourself this NH. If the Holy Spirit is just a force or power to you a spirit which is of God and not God himself, and it was the Holy Spirit that over shadowed Mary and Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit. Then who is the Father of Jesus.
Your view of God and the Spirit has holes bigger than the sun NH.
By the way NH. You say….
Quote have no problem knowing that the Spirit is of God and it is entirely congruous that God in heaven does all His works on earth through His Spirit. But you have divided God so you must decide on the parenthood of Jesus.
Do you know what the word “congruous” means.
It means…
Etymology: Latin congruus, from congruere to come together, agree
1 a : being in agreement, harmony, or correspondence b : conforming to the circumstances or requirements of a situation : APPROPRIATE
2 : marked or enhanced by harmonious agreement among constituent elementsSo God is in harmony and agrees with himself the spirit which you say is of God. By your definition the Spirit is something other than God. As the above definition shows something that comes together and agrees.
Where is this scriptural?
Who is confused here NH?
Quote Hi w,
You missed this one.“Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than against Jesus?”
The reason is that the Spirit is of God, and God is greater than His Son.
Jesus said so.NH
This supports my trinitarian view, not your view.
I believe the answer is Because the Spirit is God.
Whats your answer NH? Who is this Spirit that you speak of that is of or is
“congruous” with the Father?How is it that it is a greater sin? Jesus didnt say that blasphemy against the Father was unpardonable but against the Spirit. Right NH?
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