- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote Hi CB,
Your religion is not of our God.
Our God is ONE.NH
No your God is not One, for you bow down to and honor the Son as God calling him Lord And Master.
Yet you say you serve one God. Which is it?
Jesus said you cant have two masters. So either Jesus is One with the Father as God or you break the first commandment.
Exod 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;God has not shared his Glory as God, nor his worship with another! But he has with the Son because the Word was with God and was God.
Exod 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:Pss 81:9
There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.Matt 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.Imagine that Jehovah is King of eternity. King in every right. King of all.
And imagine that he sets up a king to be head of his kingdom. That king which Jehovah has set in place is also a king, without question, having all the power and authority bestowed upon him by the very king of eternity.Of course, there are other kings, people with limited power. But they rule none the less. Yet, they are extremely limited and have very little power compared to the king of eternity, or even compared to the king that Jehovah has set in place.
The word God applies to Jehovah, thousands of times. About 1000 times his is specifically called God. We know he is God. The word “God” essentially means: “Mighty one.” We know Jehovah, as our creator, is mighty, in fact, he is called ALMIGHTY. His son, is mighty as well, obviously. And therefore the title God can be applied to him, even as it is applied to human judges of isreal, and to angels and to Satan himself and to other false “mighty ones.” A piece of wood can be worshipped as an idol, a god, but really, it is not mighty at all, not really a god, it's false.
Just because Jehovah and Jesus both have the titles God, along with others, does not mean that Jesus is God almighty, that they are the same.
Jehovah is a king. Jehovah has set up Jesus as a king. They are both kings. This doesn't mean they are the same. There are other kings as well.
The main arguement here seems to be that the Bible says there is only one true God, and that since Jesus is called God, that he is the same.
Well, one could say that there is only one true king, one who is truly the ruler of all. Jesus has a head, Jesus is under his father, therefore, even though he is a king, he is under the king of eternity, Jehovah. THAT DOESNT' MAKE JESUS A FALSE KING. This is not a contradiction. And neither is it to call Jesus God or a god even though there is only one TRUE GOD. Jehovah is truly God, in that he is truly mighty. A mighty one. He is described 43 times in the Bible as Almighty, a title that fits only him. Yes, there are other mighty ones. But only one who is truly mighty, almighty, and that is Jehovah.
david
Jesus the LORD thy God.
Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:This proves beyond doubt that the Son of man (Jesus) is the LORD thy God.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Jesus, the Son, God in the flesh!
Heb 10:
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The above scriptures was the fulfillment of the prophesied coming of the Messiah, Jesus written about in Pss 47:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Most expected the Messiah to be born as any other man, but as the above shows Jesus pre-existed his coming in the flesh, taking on a human body which God the Father had prepared for him.A key to understanding Jesus coming as the Messiah is “the offering of his body”, “a body hast thou prepared me:” vrs 5
So if Jesus pre-existed his natural birth, who was he and what was he?
So we look at Heb 1.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
While these scriptures do not show the pre-existance of Jesus as God, for they are refering to Jesus post ressurection, nevertheless the Father declares Jesus as God, in agreement with Jn 1:1.
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.These scriptures agree with Hebrews. Look at the wording.
Jn 1:14
We beheld his Glory as of the only begotten of the Father!
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person…Jn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:10
Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
They also agree with Johns 1st Epistle.
1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Jesus was/is the Word/Eternal Life who was in the form of God according to Phil 2 thought it not robbery to be equal with God(for he was with God and was God), he humbled himself leaving all of his glory, power and authority that he shared with God, and took on human form and in doing so took on the form of a servant, and humbled himself depending totally on his Fathers will and power, even to the death of the cross.The true picture of a Shephard leaving all to save the one.
The true example of perfect Love, one who gives all and lays down his life for his friends.
Jn 10:15
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.Jn 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus completed his task here by preaching and teaching the Kingdom of God and offering Eternal life to as many as would believe him.He completely and total fullfilled His Fathers will by submitting to the Father even to the death of the cross.
After which he rose from the dead and ascended back to the Father from where he came to be once again glorified with the glory he shared with the Father before the world was.
And this same Jesus has now been given all power and authority and a name which is above ALL NAMES, not only in this world but in that which is to come, for it pleased the father that all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in Jesus Bodily.
And so he has sit down at the right hand of God, not below him, nor above him, but at his right hand of Power and has recieved the Glory that he had with the Father as God.
And he Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords will crack the eastern sky and will appear in ALL the Glory of his Father with the Holy Angels taking vengeance on them that know not GOD.
Jer 10:10
But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an **everlasting king**, at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jesus comes this time with a sword!
Isa 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for **our God**.Matt 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Hi W,
Say after me.
“You are the Christ the son of the living God”
Now believe it.
Now look at scripture from this scriptural point of view.
Let God show you how it can all work without going back to man's teachings that he is his own Father.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2007,00:06) Jesus, the Son, God in the flesh!
Heb 10:
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The above scriptures was the fulfillment of the prophesied coming of the Messiah, Jesus written about in Pss 47:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Most expected the Messiah to be born as any other man, but as the above shows Jesus pre-existed his coming in the flesh, taking on a human body which God the Father had prepared for him.A key to understanding Jesus coming as the Messiah is “the offering of his body”, “a body hast thou prepared me:” vrs 5
So if Jesus pre-existed his natural birth, who was he and what was he?
So we look at Heb 1.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
While these scriptures do not show the pre-existance of Jesus as God, for they are refering to Jesus post ressurection, nevertheless the Father declares Jesus as God, in agreement with Jn 1:1.
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.These scriptures agree with Hebrews. Look at the wording.
Jn 1:14
We beheld his Glory as of the only begotten of the Father!
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person…Jn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:10
Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
They also agree with Johns 1st Epistle.
1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Jesus was/is the Word/Eternal Life who was in the form of God according to Phil 2 thought it not robbery to be equal with God(for he was with God and was God), he humbled himself leaving all of his glory, power and authority that he shared with God, and took on human form and in doing so took on the form of a servant, and humbled himself depending totally on his Fathers will and power, even to the death of the cross.The true picture of a Shephard leaving all to save the one.
The true example of perfect Love, one who gives all and lays down his life for his friends.
Jn 10:15
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.Jn 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus completed his task here by preaching and teaching the Kingdom of God and offering Eternal life to as many as would believe him.He completely and total fullfilled His Fathers will by submitting to the Father even to the death of the cross.
After which he rose from the dead and ascended back to the Father from where he came to be once again glorified with the glory he shared with the Father before the world was.
And this same Jesus has now been given all power and authority and a name which is above ALL NAMES, not only in this world but in that which is to come, for it pleased the father that all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in Jesus Bodily.
And so he has sit down at the right hand of God, not below him, nor above him, but at his right hand of Power and has recieved the Glory that he had with the Father as God.
And he Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords will crack the eastern sky and will appear in ALL the Glory of his Father with the Holy Angels taking vengeance on them that know not GOD.
Jer 10:10
But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an **everlasting king**, at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jesus comes this time with a sword!
Isa 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for **our God**.Matt 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Nice.Quote (david @ Dec. 28 2006,03:54) Imagine that Jehovah is King of eternity. King in every right. King of all.
And imagine that he sets up a king to be head of his kingdom. That king which Jehovah has set in place is also a king, without question, having all the power and authority bestowed upon him by the very king of eternity.Of course, there are other kings, people with limited power. But they rule none the less. Yet, they are extremely limited and have very little power compared to the king of eternity, or even compared to the king that Jehovah has set in place.
The word God applies to Jehovah, thousands of times. About 1000 times his is specifically called God. We know he is God. The word “God” essentially means: “Mighty one.” We know Jehovah, as our creator, is mighty, in fact, he is called ALMIGHTY. His son, is mighty as well, obviously. And therefore the title God can be applied to him, even as it is applied to human judges of isreal, and to angels and to Satan himself and to other false “mighty ones.” A piece of wood can be worshipped as an idol, a god, but really, it is not mighty at all, not really a god, it's false.
Just because Jehovah and Jesus both have the titles God, along with others, does not mean that Jesus is God almighty, that they are the same.
Jehovah is a king. Jehovah has set up Jesus as a king. They are both kings. This doesn't mean they are the same. There are other kings as well.
The main arguement here seems to be that the Bible says there is only one true God, and that since Jesus is called God, that he is the same.
Well, one could say that there is only one true king, one who is truly the ruler of all. Jesus has a head, Jesus is under his father, therefore, even though he is a king, he is under the king of eternity, Jehovah. THAT DOESNT' MAKE JESUS A FALSE KING. This is not a contradiction. And neither is it to call Jesus God or a god even though there is only one TRUE GOD. Jehovah is truly God, in that he is truly mighty. A mighty one. He is described 43 times in the Bible as Almighty, a title that fits only him. Yes, there are other mighty ones. But only one who is truly mighty, almighty, and that is Jehovah.
david
I wish people could just grasp this concept.Very well put David.
The Disciple Mathetes agrees with you too, David:
…As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so sent He Him; as God He sent Him; as to men He sent Him; as a Saviour He sent Him, and as seeking to persuade, not to compel us; for violence has no place in the character of God…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2006,00:28) Quote Hi CB,
Your religion is not of our God.
Our God is ONE.NH
No your God is not One, for you bow down to and honor the Son as God calling him Lord And Master.
Yet you say you serve one God. Which is it?
Jesus said you cant have two masters. So either Jesus is One with the Father as God or you break the first commandment.
Exod 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;God has not shared his Glory as God, nor his worship with another! But he has with the Son because the Word was with God and was God.
Exod 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:Pss 81:9
There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.Matt 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Hi W,
Show some spiritual discernment and wisdom and kiss the Son for the Father is eternally mainfest in his appointed Lord. When you serve the vine and produce fruit in season you serve the Gardener. Refusal to serve the vine by any branch is to risk being pruned off as useless and being thrown in the fire. But the Vine is not the Gardener.Quote (david @ Dec. 28 2006,22:54) Imagine that Jehovah is King of eternity. King in every right. King of all.
And imagine that he sets up a king to be head of his kingdom. That king which Jehovah has set in place is also a king, without question, having all the power and authority bestowed upon him by the very king of eternity.Of course, there are other kings, people with limited power. But they rule none the less. Yet, they are extremely limited and have very little power compared to the king of eternity, or even compared to the king that Jehovah has set in place.
The word God applies to Jehovah, thousands of times. About 1000 times his is specifically called God. We know he is God. The word “God” essentially means: “Mighty one.” We know Jehovah, as our creator, is mighty, in fact, he is called ALMIGHTY. His son, is mighty as well, obviously. And therefore the title God can be applied to him, even as it is applied to human judges of isreal, and to angels and to Satan himself and to other false “mighty ones.” A piece of wood can be worshipped as an idol, a god, but really, it is not mighty at all, not really a god, it's false.
Just because Jehovah and Jesus both have the titles God, along with others, does not mean that Jesus is God almighty, that they are the same.
Jehovah is a king. Jehovah has set up Jesus as a king. They are both kings. This doesn't mean they are the same. There are other kings as well.
The main arguement here seems to be that the Bible says there is only one true God, and that since Jesus is called God, that he is the same.
Well, one could say that there is only one true king, one who is truly the ruler of all. Jesus has a head, Jesus is under his father, therefore, even though he is a king, he is under the king of eternity, Jehovah. THAT DOESNT' MAKE JESUS A FALSE KING. This is not a contradiction. And neither is it to call Jesus God or a god even though there is only one TRUE GOD. Jehovah is truly God, in that he is truly mighty. A mighty one. He is described 43 times in the Bible as Almighty, a title that fits only him. Yes, there are other mighty ones. But only one who is truly mighty, almighty, and that is Jehovah.
david
Yes good post david.David
Quote Imagine that Jehovah is King of eternity. We don't have to imagine things because the scripture is so clear.
Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus is The Lord thy God.
Jesus / Jehovah. Seed of DavidJoh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Jesus The Lord thy God
Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:This proves beyond doubt that the Son of man (Jesus) is the LORD thy God.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Quote ,
Show some spiritual discernment and wisdom and kiss the Son for the Father is eternally mainfest in his appointed Lord. When you serve the vine and produce fruit in season you serve the Gardener. Refusal to serve the vine by any branch is to risk being pruned off as useless and being thrown in the fire. But the Vine is not the Gardener.NH
I have been saying all along that you should serve the vine. Because you cant serve the gardner unless you serve the vine.
You see the vine is in the gardner and the gardner is in the vine.
They are ONE!
Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.I Jn 2:
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
There are many that say they honor Jesus as they honor the Father, but their actions deny it.
Mk 7:6
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
A previous post.
Imagine that Jehovah is King of eternity. King in every right. King of all.
And imagine that he sets up a king to be head of his kingdom. That king which Jehovah has set in place is also a king, without question, having all the power and authority bestowed upon him by the very king of eternity.
Of course, there are other kings, people with limited power. But they rule none the less. Yet, they are extremely limited and have very little power compared to the king of eternity, or even compared to the king that Jehovah has set in place.
The word God applies to Jehovah, thousands of times. About 1000 times his is specifically called God. We know he is God. The word “God” essentially means: “Mighty one.” We know Jehovah, as our creator, is mighty, in fact, he is called ALMIGHTY. His son, is mighty as well, obviously. And therefore the title God can be applied to him, even as it is applied to human judges of isreal, and to angels and to Satan himself and to other false “mighty ones.” A piece of wood can be worshipped as an idol, a god, but really, it is not mighty at all, not really a god, it's false.
Just because Jehovah and Jesus both have the titles God, along with others, does not mean that Jesus is God almighty, that they are the same.
Jehovah is a king. Jehovah has set up Jesus as a king. They are both kings. This doesn't mean they are the same. There are other kings as well.
The main arguement here seems to be that the Bible says there is only one true God, and that since Jesus is called God, that he is the same.
Well, one could say that there is only one true king, one who is truly the ruler of all. Jesus has a head, Jesus is under his father, therefore, even though he is a king, he is under the king of eternity, Jehovah. THAT DOESNT' MAKE JESUS A FALSE KING. This is not a contradiction. And neither is it to call Jesus God or a god even though there is only one TRUE GOD. Jehovah is truly God, in that he is truly mighty. A mighty one. He is described 43 times in the Bible as Almighty, a title that fits only him. Yes, there are other mighty ones. But only one who is truly mighty, almighty, and that is Jehovah.I wish people could just grasp this concept.
Very well put David. –Morning StarYes good post david.–T8
First, thankyou. I feel this is the main argument of the trinitarians. This is their main reason, the thing it always comes down to. Jehovah is the only true God, and Jesus is called God.
The problem, is twofold: They don't understand the meaning of the word “God,” and they are confusing the notion of false gods (idols) with the word “god” and what it actually means.
Jehovah is often differentiated between the false gods of the nations. Of course, these false gods are made of stone, or wood, and are not really gods (mighty ones) at all. They aren't really gods, (meaning mighty ones.) Yet, they are worshipped as gods. In this sense, they are gods. But false ones.
Then, we have Jesus, human judges, angels. The word “God” applies to all these, as they are all mighty.So what do we make of the statement: “only true God?”
Are angels mighty ones?
Were the human judges in Israel mighty ones?Yes, to some extent.
Compared to humans, angels are obviously very mighty ones.But notice this one important fact, that they all close their eyes to.
Jehovah is 'almighty.'
That sets him apart.
43 times he's called almighty. Only one of those times, is this questionable (not really) and that's in revelation where some wribgkt try to apply the title alpha and omega to Jesus, when this clearly creates some contradictions, which I will gladly discuss in the alpha and omega thread.
Anyway, Jehovah is set apart in his degree of “mightiness.” There are no limit's for him!
It's not comparable.Compare the queen of an ant pile to the queen of England. The degree of mightiness isn't the same at all, yet, compared to Jehovah's might, they are virtually the same. Compared to Jehovah's almightiness, what difference in “might” does one human king have over another?
So, Jehovah truly is the only “true” God (meaning “mighty one”) in the fullest sense of the word.
CASE CLOSED.
Trinity, shot down.
david
Quote Jehovah is 'almighty.' That sets him apart.
43 times he's called almighty. Only one of those times, is this questionable (not really) and that's in revelation where some wribgkt try to apply the title alpha and omega to Jesus, when this clearly creates some contradictions, which I will gladly discuss in the alpha and omega thread.
Anyway, Jehovah is set apart in his degree of “mightiness.” There are no limit's for him!
It's not comparable.Compare the queen of an ant pile to the queen of England. The degree of mightiness isn't the same at all, yet, compared to Jehovah's might, they are virtually the same. Compared to Jehovah's almightiness, what difference in “might” does one human king have over another?
So, Jehovah truly is the only “true” God (meaning “mighty one”) in the fullest sense of the word.
CASE CLOSED.
Trinity, shot down.
david
David. I wonder if you could do something for me….Can you prove to me that in each of the 42 occassions the word “Almighty” is applied as a description of an identity – it exclusively refers to God the Father. Can you do that for me? If not, your assertion is inconsequential.Quote The main arguement here seems to be that the Bible says there is only one true God, and that since Jesus is called God, that he is the same. David
No trinitarian says that the Word/God is the same person as the Father!
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The above scripture dosnt say the Word is the Father, but that the Word/God was with God!Why is it when a trinitarian refers to Jesus as being God that the aposers resort to accusations that we are saying that Jesus is the Father?
Is it because they have no defence, when the scriptures stare them right in the face that he is God.
God is a title. The word God “theos” is not always used in a singular sence.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.The word for God in Hebrew is “'elohiym”, which you full well know is a plural word.
Again, God “elohiym” is a title.
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The writer of Hebrews who is simply quoting the Father form the Psalms is not say that Jesus is the Father.Now unless you believe the Father has resorted to polythiesm, then the only other conclusion we have is Jesus is what the Father says…. God, one with him, as Jesus reveals.
So tell me David. Since you admit that the scriptures calls Jesus God.
Is Jesus a True God or a False God?
The scriptures are clear.
Jn 10:30
I and my Father are one.Jn 1:
That was the **true Light**, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John the Apostle who leaned on the bosom of Jesus, who spoke of handling the Word, and his eyes seeing the Word, who he says he the Word Is the Eternal life that was with the Father, this same John new exactly what he was saying when he said….I Jn 5:
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ.**This is the true God, and eternal life**.
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Believe the scriptures!Quote David. I wonder if you could do something for me….Can you prove to me that in each of the 42 occassions the word “Almighty” is applied as a description of an identity – it exclusively refers to God the Father. Can you do that for me? If not, your assertion is inconsequential. Is 1:18, you've asked me this twice before. I'll tell you now what I told you then.
“yes,” I can do that. Absolutely. I won't, though.
When we've had this conversation before, it went like this: You said: Show me all 43 scriptures and prove they all refer to Jehovah. I replied by saying: Show me one that doesn't. (Of course, you'll show me the revelation one.)
Is 1:18, since you keep making this same statement, you must have a reason for doing so. If you've come across a scripture that clearly says Jesus is the Almighty, please do share. It's easier for you to find that one scripture than for me to show you all 43, isn't it?
Then, you'll respond as you did before by saying it's up to me to prove my statements.
Where, I'll say:
Quote yes,” I can do that. Absolutely. I won't, though. Quote David No trinitarian says that the Word/God is the same person as the Father!
Then you haven't asked each trinitarian this question have you? Nope. Half of the trinitarians in the world don't know what they believe. Half of them just go along with whatever their church feeds them. You know this, don't you?
Half of them think that God's name is “God.”Quote So tell me David. Since you admit that the scriptures calls Jesus God. Is Jesus a True God or a False God?
Did you read any of my post?
Question for you, if you could be so kind as to answer it:
What does the word “God” mean?Quote “yes,” I can do that. Absolutely. I won't, though.
Okay….but your assertion therefore remains unsubstantiated conjecture and should be treated as such (ignored by all)…..Quote Quote
“yes,” I can do that. Absolutely. I won't, though.Okay….but your assertion therefore remains unsubstantiated conjecture and should be treated as such (ignored by all)…..
Heres' the thing, Is 1:18. I make the statement that Jehovah is called “Almighty” 43 times about once a week on this forum.
You contend that this is wrong.We both have a belief. I am ok with my belief. I've read those scriptures. If you are uncertain about your beliefs, maybe you should find those scriptures yourself. (You do have a search function, don't you?) This isn't all about the actual “work” of finding them, is it?
As I was saying, since I say it more often, regardless of who the demands is placed upon, I would think you would want to show me my error, so I stop saying it.
But since you don't want to do this, I'll just conclude along with everyone esle that it's because of one of these reasons:1) too much time, not worth your trouble
2) you're wrong
3) can't think of a third one, but maybe there is another reason, but I doubt it.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
