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Hi WJ:
I did not quite finish the last sentance of the above post. I posted the above before I had finished and so there might be several errors. But I was saying, they know and I know that there is only ONE GOD, and they won't confess him as God because they will violate the 1st of The Ten Commandments. We confess him as Lord because we are subjected to God through him. 1 Co. 11:3 states: “But I would have you know, that the head of man is Christ; and the head of woman is the man; and head of Christ is God”.
I also do not sweep any scriptures under the rug when I don't understand them. I ask God for understanding. (James 1:5)
It is really not that hard to understand. (There is) “One God and Father of all, who is above all (including Jesus), and through all, and in you all (That is all born again Christians).” (Ephesians 4:6)
Sorry, I do not see any scriptures that say that God is a “Trinity”, but I thank you again for giving me your views.
Quote Hi WJ: I have read and digested all that you wrote relative to your beliefs about the “trinity”, but I believe that this doctrine is a misunderstanding of scripture.
You say, “Also I cannot prove to you the Trinitarian view by quoting scripture. In fact any one who says that they fully understand the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit is not being sincere and honest in light of all of the scriptures”.
If you cannot prove to me from the scriptures the “Trinitarian view, then it must not be scriptural. We know that the Holy Ghost will lead us to all truths, but He does this through the scritprures.
Relative to Jesus God the Father revealed to humanity through the Apostle Peter who Jesus is. Matt. 16:13-17 states: “When Jesus came into the Coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, whom do men say that I am? And they said, some say that thou art John the Baptist: and some Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, but whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OT THE LIVING GOD. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hat not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven”.
There is not need to look any further to try to determine who Jesus is. God has revealed this plainly to us by this scripture. He is not GOD THE SON, but HE IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. End of this discussion, lest we make God and Jesus liars. Because Jesus did not say that He was God otherwise He would be condradicting who God said that he was.
1 Co. 2:9-13 states: But as it is witten. Eye hath not seen, not ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God has revealed them unto us by HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God (As Jesus the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father). that we may know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words hich man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual”.
You say, “By the Spirit proceeding from the Father we know that the Spirit is the same essence or substance as the Father. HE IS GOD'S SPIRIT”.
You and I agree that the Holy Ghost is God's Spirit and not a third person. End of this discussion. The above scripture that I quoted from 1 Co. plainly states this, and also makes a comparison between God's Spirit knowing His thoughts as our spirit knows ours.
You said that your real person was your spirit and I agreed with you. I have discussed this with you in my previous posts.
As for discussion on the Godhead, Jesus is the express image of God's person. (Hebrews 1:3) John 14:9-10 states: “Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAT SEEN ME HAAT SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, shew us the FAther? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works”.
John 1:18 states: “no man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 1 John 5:20 states: “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that WE MAY KNOW HIM THAT IS TRUE, and we are in him that is true, even in HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE”.
You say, “Tinitarians hold to the view that the Spirit of God is God and yet is distinct and separate from the Father. He is the Spirit of God. Hard to swallow to say the least. But we are speaking of God here. He doesn't fit our finite minds. Trinitarians do not throw away scriptures or sweep them under a rug because we don't understand them”.
The Trinitarian view is indeed hard to swallow and has caused many not to confess Jesus as Lord because from this view you are saying that he is God. I evangelized on the street for the past ten years and have found this to be the case with many Jews and Muslims to whom I have witnessed.
They know and I know that there is only ONE GOD. We are subjected to
94
Thanks for your response.
As I said in my previous post. It looked like you had already made your mind up.
Pure and simple.
I will only say this my friend…
The bible says…
Col. 1:15-19
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;There is two classes of beings Creator and Created. Now unless you believe Jesus created himself or God created Jesus through Jesus, then it leaves you with one thing..
Jesus is not one of the created!
Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.Now since you say…
Quote I also do not sweep any scriptures under the rug when I don't understand them. I ask God for understanding. (James 1:5) Then please give me your understanding of these scriptures.
BTW you didnt address any of the scriptural evidence that I showed you especially on the person of the Holy Spirit.
Could you please show me your opinions of what Jesus meant in John Ch. 14,15,16 in regards to the Holy Spirit?
I am prayerfully open to any miss guidence on my part.
Blessings
Quote There is not need to look any further to try to determine who Jesus is. God has revealed this plainly to us by this scripture. He is not GOD THE SON, but HE IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. End of this discussion, lest we make God and Jesus liars. Because Jesus did not say that He was God otherwise He would be condradicting who God said that he was. 94
Sorry! One other thing. you say Jesus didnt say he was God.
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **the Almighty**.Lest you say like the rest of the false prophets that this was the Father speaking..
Read further..
Rev 1:10-18
10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
[11] Saying, **I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last**: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
[12] And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
[13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
[14] His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
[15] And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
[16] And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; **I am the first and the last**:
[18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Jesus is the Alpha and Omega!
Check this one out…
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Who purchased it with his own Blood? I dont see Jesus name here. But I do see the church of God and the Holy Ghost.
Could you also pray about these and if you see something I dont, plz let me know!
Hi W,
You say
“There is two classes of beings Creator and Created. Now unless you believe Jesus created himself or God created Jesus through Jesus, then it leaves you with one thing..Jesus is not one of the created!”
Says who?
These boxes you have created are not scriptural.
The MONOGENES Son of God is UNIQUE.
The Image of God is not the Creator but all creation comes through him.
We do not need your AH HA! theology that says he is either God or created.
It is the same narrow idea that says if he has divine origins he must be God Himself.
He is neither but UNIQUE.
Just use scripture.
Stay on the path of truth and do not follow butterflies of speculation into the swamps of confusion..
Hi WJ:
Yes, at this point I have made up my mind that the “Trinity doctrine” is a misunderstanding of scripture because I have studied the scriptures, and I have read what others had to say relative to this doctrine, and I have prayed asking God to show me if this doctrine is correct, and I can say without any doubt that it is not correct. If God did not say it through the scriptures, then God did not say it.
Relative to Jesus, as I have said God has revealed who Jesus is and that is that he is THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. I believe God, and I don't believe that Jesus would say that he is God otherwise he would be condradicting what God said about him.
All of mankind (God's creation) after Adam were born of the sperm of man, but Jesus was not born of the sperm of man but is the First of God's creation to born of God. He was a man, but his body was God's own flesh and blood. He is the first man born again from the dead. God created this world with him, the last Adam who is the express image of God's person, in mind. He is God's heir, and we are joint heirs with him. This is what I see by the scripture in Col. 1:15 and I believe that this also explains your comment about Jesus not being one of the created. I was not created either. I was born of the sperm of God's creation.
Now about the Holy Spirit as discussed in John 14,15, and 16.
Jesus states: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. (John 14:10)
And Jesus states: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he might abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”. (John 14:17)
From these two scriptures we see that God's Spirit (the Father by His Spirit) was dwelling in and working through Jesus. Jesus is preparing to go to the Father in heaven (to the Fathers's throne), and so he states that he will pray to God to give his disciples another Counselor to replace him when he leaves them. He calls God's Spirit the “Spirit of Truth” who now dwells with them through him will be in them,
“If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him”. (John 14:23)
“These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you”. (John 14:25)
“But the Comforter (the Counselor) which is the Holy Ghost (He identifies the Counselor as God's Spirit), whom the Father will send in my name (in my stead), he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you (the role of the Counselor is defined here). (John 14)
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I”. (John 14:28)
“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”. (John 15:26)
Jesus states: “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me”. (John 14:6) John 1:33 states about Jesus: “And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost”. The Spirit of God proceeds from the Father through Jesus and thereby testifies that Jesus is risen and is at his right hand. And indeed when I received the Holy Ghost, I knew that God's testimony regarding His Son was and is true.
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged”.
Jesus had to die on the cross in order to overcome sin and pay the judgment that was against all of humanity in order for those who choose to be reconciled to the Father might do so. The Holy Ghost could not dwell in us unless his blood washed away our sins. He overcame sin, death and the grave and thereby reproves the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you”. (John 16:13-15)
The Spirit of God will reveal God's thoughts to us which have been written in his Word. Jesus is the God's heir, and Holy Spirit will show us what God has said to us through Jesus. The Holy Spirit does not speak of his own initiative.
I do not see any thing said about the Holy Spirit being a third person. Jesus uses the word “another Comforter or counselor” because he had been the disciples counselor while he was here on earth, but that Spirit of God had already been with them through the person of Jesus Christ. He was going to die on the cross and rise again from the dead and ascend in to heaven to the Father's throne so that the Holy Spirit could dwell in all of us as he had in him. God teaches us his word by His Spirit. He is my helper. “Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath know my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation”. (Psalm 91:14-16)
Rev. 1:8 according to the KJV states: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”.
Rev. 1:8 according to the NIV states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty”.
I use the study tools at crosswalk.com often, and according to the JFB commentary regarding this verse of scripture he states: “the oldest manuscripts read the Lord God”. And so, I believe that this was God speaking through this scripture pertaining to Himself.
Rev. 5:13 states: “And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, (that is God) and unto the Lamb (that is Jesus) for ever and ever”.
Rev. 1: 11 Jesus states: I am Alpha and Omega, the firs ant the last…” and verse 1:17 he states: “Fear not; I am the first and the last:” Verse 18 continues: “I am he that liveth, and was dead (therefore I believe by saying he is the Firist, he is saying that he is the first born again from the dead) and he continures saying, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death”. (He is the last because he lives for evermore. He has eternal life)
“But to us (to me) there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)
I hope that I have answered all to your satisfaction, but if not, please ask.
God Bless
Hi 94,
You say
“All of mankind (God's creation) after Adam were born of the sperm of man, but Jesus was not born of the sperm of man but is the First of God's creation to born of God. He was a man, but his body was God's own flesh and blood. “He was conceived of Mary.
He is indeed Son of Man.Hi 94
Thanks again for your reponse!
Still have a few questions though.
You say…
Quote Yes, at this point I have made up my mind that the “Trinity doctrine” is a misunderstanding of scripture because I have studied the scriptures, and I have read what others had to say relative to this doctrine, and I have prayed asking God to show me if this doctrine is correct, and I can say without any doubt that it is not correct. If God did not say it through the scriptures, then God did not say it. Relative to Jesus, as I have said God has revealed who Jesus is and that is that he is THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. I believe God, and I don't believe that Jesus would say that he is God otherwise he would be contradicting what God said about him.
Well as usual it is a miss conception by the JWs and Arian’s view that the Trinitarian view doesn't believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Which is a lie. We simply believe that Jesus according to scripture is much more than just a title the Son of God. There are all kinds of titles for the Father and Jesus. After I am a son of God. Jesus is much more than just the Son of God. See if you can find anywhere in scripture where he returns as the resurected Lord that he is mentioned or called the Son of God!And so the debate goes on.
You say…
Quote All of mankind (God's creation) after Adam were born of the sperm of man, but Jesus was not born of the sperm of man but is the First of God's creation to born of God. He was a man, but his body was God's own flesh and blood. He is the first man born again from the dead. God created this world with him, the last Adam who is the express image of God's person, in mind. He is God's heir, and we are joint heirs with him. This is what I see by the scripture in Col. 1:15 and I believe that this also explains your comment about Jesus not being one of the created. I was not created either. I was born of the sperm of God's creation. Not at all sure of what you mean here.
So Jesus the Word that was with God and the Word that was God, the one by whom all, A.L.L, things were created was born of God therefore because he was born of God he was not part of the creation?
So by this are you saying that no one since Adam and Eve is a part of Gods creation?
Gen 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Adam and Eve were dead at this time but God calls man his creation.Ps 102:18
This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.Isa 43:1
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine.Jer 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.All of man as we no him today are part of his created because they were formed in the womb by God before they were born.
What does this mean? You say…
Quote He was a man, but his body was God's own flesh and blood. He is the first man born again from the dead. God created this world with him, the last Adam who is the express image of God's person, in mind. The Word was made Flesh, the body of Jesus was formed in the womb of Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit. So yes the Body of Jesus was created. But the Spirit of Jesus is spoken of in I John 1:
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)So again ALL things were made by him…
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.The Life that was in Jesus his created body was not created nor born. It was the Word that was with God and was God.
Please show me in scripture where Jesus was the first man “born again’ from the dead.
The Gr word for Firstborn in the NT is Prototokos which comes from the root word protos, which means “first in rank”
Prototokos… Col.1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the Firstborn before all creation and that He Himself produced creation… Vines Dictionary of New Testament Words, Vol.2, p.104.
Prototokos is a legal term not a biological one, meaning, “first in rank, status, pre-eminent, supreme, superior, and unique.” A person can be ‘first-born’ but not born first. Biblical examples of this fact are:Isaac & Jacob (Genesis 25:23)
Israel (Exodus 4:22) which didn’t even exist as a nation until Abraham was called in Genesis 12. Other nations had existed prior to Israel
David (Psalm 89:27)who was the youngest in the family
Here we see the difference between someone who was the first to be born (‘birthed’) and someone who was firstborn (in rank).
We must also consider that, if prototokos means “biological first-born”, how do we explain Job 18:13 (first-born of death) and Isaiah 14:30 (first-born of the poor)?
Other evidence to consider is that if Paul had really intended the reader to think of Jesus as some sort of biological creation, he would have used either; protoktisis first-created or protoplastos first-formed. Both refer to a biological/creative process and not a ‘God-begotten’ act.
This meaning of pre-eminence is also shown in Colossians 1:18 which, talks of Jesus being the firstborn from the dead. Was He the first one to rise from the dead? No. The rest of the verse shows what it means though – He would be pre-eminent over death because He would never die again.
The meaning of firstborn in Scripture is pre-eminence over. Thus, Colossian 1:15 does not mean that Jesus was first to be created but that He is pre-eminent over creation.You say…
I do not see any thing said about the Holy Spirit being a third person. Jesus uses the word “another Comforter or counselor” because he had been the disciples counselor while he was here on earth, but that Spirit of God had already been with them through the person of Jesus Christ. He was going to die on the cross and rise again from the dead and ascend in to heaven to the Father's throne so that the Holy Spirit could dwell in all of us as he had in him. God teaches us his word by His Spirit. He is my helper. “Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation”. (Psalm 91:14-16)
Sorry but this doesn’t
answer my questions?
Again up to this point in the ministry of Jesus he has only spoken of the Father.
Now he speaks of both the Father and the Comforter in the same breath.
Did Jesus send himself? Did the Father send himself?
Why didn’t Jesus use the term Father or my Fathers spirit? Why the term “another Comforter”.
Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Father will send…
If the Holy Ghost is the Father then according to Rom 8:26, 27 then the Father is praying to himself.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he **shall GIVE YOU another Comforter**, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Listen to the words of Jesus…Luke 11:
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: **how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him**?Can that be any plainer? Now unless you take a JW or Arian view of the scriptures that Jesus is merely speaking of a power or force then this along with the above shows the Holy Spirit is another.
You say…
Quote Rev. 1:8 according to the KJV states: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. Rev. 1:8 according to the NIV states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty”.
I use the study tools at crosswalk.com often, and according to the JFB commentary regarding this verse of scripture he states: “the oldest manuscripts read the Lord God”. And so, I believe that this was God speaking through this scripture pertaining to Himself.
Rev. 5:13 states: “And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, (that is God) and unto the Lamb (that is Jesus) for ever and ever”.
Rev. 1: 11 Jesus states: I am Alpha and Omega, the firs ant the last…” and verse 1:17 he states: “Fear not; I am the first and the last:” Verse 18 continues: “I am he that liveth, and was dead (therefore I believe by saying he is the Firist, he is saying that he is the first born again from the dead) and he continures saying, and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death”. (He is the last because he lives for evermore. He has eternal life)
“But to us (to me) there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. (1 Co. 8:6)
I hope that I have answered all to your satisfaction, but if not, please ask.
Ok 94 I agree with you that “almighty” means Lord God”.
If that is true then in vrs 8 is the Almighty saying that he is Alpha and Omega? If so then Jesus also says in vs. 11 that he is Alpha and Omega. So either way would be saying that Jesus is Lord God!Have you answered my questions? No. You have raised a few others. Please be patient with me Im trying to understand your view.
1.Do you believe that The Word Jesus had a beginning, and why?
2.Do you believe that only Adam and Eve were created all the rest were born therefore are not created?
3.In light of Luke 11:11-13, Luke 11:18- 20, Matt 12:26-28 was Jesus speaking of the Father God.
4.Is Jesus the Alpha and Omega? If so plz explain Rev 1:8. and Rev 1:11. How do you come to the conclusion that vs. 8 is the Father speaking?
5.What does it mean to you For Jesus to be the Firstborn of creation?
6.Is the Holy Ghost the Father himself, or is he a power or force from God?Blessings
Hi w,
Dan 7
” 9I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”
Who is the one like a Son of Man with the Ancient of Days.?
When is this event?Quote Hi w,
Dan 7
” 9I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”
Who is the one like a Son of Man with the Ancient of Days.?
When is this event?The Lord of Glory, Jesus, at his second coming!
Pss 68:4
Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.PSS 68:33
To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, [which were] of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, [and that] a mighty voice.Isa 19:1
The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt(world): and the idols of Egypt(world) shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt(world) shall melt in the midst of it.Mic 1:
2Hear, all ye people; hearken, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord(Jehovah) GOD be witness against you, the Lord(Jehovah) from his holy temple.
3For, behold, the LORD(Jehovah) cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.
4And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, [and] as the waters [that are] poured down a steep place.Isa 2:
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD(Jehovah), and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made [each one] for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD(Jehovah), and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath [is] in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?Who is the above scriptures spoeaking of and when is the events?
Hint. I put in brackets who it is.
Quote Hi W,
Your words betray that you do not yet know the Spirit because the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the Word of Christ and you preach what was never found in his mouth.You must be reborn from above to see the kingdom but you still seem to see instead the kingdom of Babylon with it's trinity gods.
And so is your opinion NH.
My opinion is you are not saved, born again either!
Hi W,
Indeed.
When Jesus comes again in eternal unity with God to rule on earth men will indeed hide from him.Ps 2
“8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
All should kiss the Son who has all the authority and power of God Himself given to him.
Zech 14
” 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2006,21:17) Quote Hi W,
Your words betray that you do not yet know the Spirit because the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the Word of Christ and you preach what was never found in his mouth.You must be reborn from above to see the kingdom but you still seem to see instead the kingdom of Babylon with it's trinity gods.
And so is your opinion NH.
My opinion is you are not saved, born again either!
Hi W,
Abide in the Word as a son must do.
Abhor Babylon and her idols.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 09 2006,23:40) Hi w,
Dan 7
” 9I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”
Who is the one like a Son of Man with the Ancient of Days.?
When is this event?
Hi W,
So the Son of God is seen in vision in heaven with God on His heavenly throne. God is the only “Ancient of days”.The Word is given the kingdom and about to return in judgement. The books are opened and the son from heaven will return as in Rev 19
” 5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. “
Quote Hi W,
Indeed.
When Jesus comes again in eternal unity with God to rule on earth men will indeed hide from him.Ps 2
“8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
All should kiss the Son who has all the authority and power of God Himself given to him.
Zech 14
” 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”
NH
The truth looking you right in the face and you still dont see it!!
Hi W,
I do not wear trinity glasses.
If it is obvious to you and true then it will be written.
What is written is that the Word of God was with God.
The monogenes Son was sent into the world.
He became united with his Father
And this unity remains.Hi W,
look at the first part of Ps 2
“1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.”
So the son is anointed by God and fiiled with God's Spirit comes to rule on earth. At the end of the 1000 yr reign the nations arise against the Son and of course against God in Whose stead he rules. God in heaven laughs at their folly.
Quote Hi W,
I do not wear trinity glasses.
If it is obvious to you and true then it will be written.
What is written is that the Word of God was with God.
The monogenes Son was sent into the world.
He became united with his Father
And this unity remains.NH
I do not wear glasses with an Arian view or any diirivation of them.
Quote Hi W,
look at the first part of Ps 2
“1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.”
So the son is anointed by God and fiiled with God's Spirit comes to rule on earth. At the end of the 1000 yr reign the nations arise against the Son and of course against God in Whose stead he rules. God in heaven laughs at their folly.
NH
How can they take council against a God they cannot see?
Of course they are fighting against the Alpha and Omega the Almighty.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2006,00:39) Quote Hi W,
I do not wear trinity glasses.
If it is obvious to you and true then it will be written.
What is written is that the Word of God was with God.
The monogenes Son was sent into the world.
He became united with his Father
And this unity remains.NH
I do not wear glasses with an Arian view or any diirivation of them.
Hi W,
Neither you should.
You should read scripture with an open mind and heart and let it teach you.
Trinity is not taught in scripture but comes from the speculative derivations of men.
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