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Hi H,
That's OK if you cannot do so then we learn from that to because we can only safely trust what can be shown from scripture.Nick, you say we, but you are referring to you. I have posted many times and many scriptures and yet you do not understand. If you have not got it by now, do you think by going through all the reposting of scriptures you will or may understand the third or fourth or fifth time around? If you have not been saved, then you are not of the same spirit and will not have the same understanding for your understanding is that of the flesh and not of the spirit. If you are saved and don't have the understanding, then pray that the Lord give you the understanding.
Hi H,
We have quite a few who post here and step outside of scriptural fact in their teaching and then when asked to justify this they say that they have the Spirit.And then they add that if we had the Spirit we would agree with what they teach.
They are all different and not all correct, and if we were to agree with them we would abandoning the need for basic scriptural proof, and would be saying anyone can teach what they like and they do not need to prove their teachings by the scriptures.
Thus scriptues would be debased in importance and intergrity and we would be risking insulting the Spirit that wrote them.
Jn 16
” 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ”We need both the Spirit and the Word.
Yes Nick, on what you say I agree. There are those who have done just as you said. And many post also according to the flesh and not the spirit. That too is causes problems. For the Word of God cannot be understood with carnal eyes. For the Word of God is Spiritual.
The interesting part when you post is you always aim it at me. LOL. You are trying to bate me into the long debate with you that I have already been through with you. It was to no avail before and would serve no purpose now.
But here is two options you can do. If you are not saved, you can get saved.
Or do the study on the baptisms as I asked how long ago that you do. But if you are not saved, you would not understand it most likely, so you must first be saved if not born again.Hi H,
Thanks for your kind concern,
but I have a Father already.“But here is two options you can do. If you are not saved, you can get saved.
Or do the study on the baptisms as I asked how long ago that you do. But if you are not saved, you would not understand it most likely, so you must first be saved if not born again.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2006,20:37) HI M,
Starting with what we can know
Rev 17.8
“8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.”Satan was from the beginning.
He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning before time.
Thus he WAS.
He is chained in the abyss for 1000 years as shown in Rev 20.2 and so he IS NOT for a time.
He is released and so WILL COME, and he comes up from the abyss as shown in Rev 20.f
Then he is cast into the fire prepared for him and his angels, going on to destruction as shown in Rev 20.10.So this also gives us the timing of this event in Revelation 17 to when satan is imprisoned surely.
So it is only Satan that fits this description and he is shown to be the dragon on which the Harlot is seated and also shown as being one of the seven/eight kings shown in Rev 17.11 showing he is incarnate in the man of perdition as he was in Judas.
Lk 22.3
” 3(A)And (B)Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve”
So you think Satan is bound in chains now?You don't think he is the accuser now? I see him doing his same activities he was doing during Job's lifetime. Roaming the earth and accusing us before God.
1 Peter 5:8-9
8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.I see him being cast down to earth right before Christs return in Rev. 12:7
Revelation 12:7-10
7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.Reposting this for easier viewing so you won't have to scroll back.
I believe Abaddon / Apollyon is the antichrist.
I believe the angels that left their first estate are loosed in the end times. Their king is the Antichrist.Rev 9:1-3
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.
Rev 9:11
11They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.Compare to
Rev 17:8
8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
For those of you who consider some truth to the book of Enoch. It may be possible that Azazel (which is also described in leviticus 16:8 as the scapegoat) is one and the same with Abaddon.
For those of you who do not consider enoch to hold any truth it does not change the possibility of Abbaddon being the antichrist.
Angels are always refered to as men.
Acts 1:10-11
10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11″Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”Hebrews 13:2
2Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing itMost intrepretors seem to think either the antichrist is not an actual being. (i.e. an institution, a spirit of false teaching, a collective of false prophets) or that he is a human who becomes possessed by satan in a like manner to Judas. When I read I see the antichrist as the self same Abaddon released from his prison to fool mankind a second time like he did before the flood.
Quote (Mercy @ Aug. 29 2006,09:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2006,20:37) HI M,
Starting with what we can know
Rev 17.8
“8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.”Satan was from the beginning.
He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning before time.
Thus he WAS.
He is chained in the abyss for 1000 years as shown in Rev 20.2 and so he IS NOT for a time.
He is released and so WILL COME, and he comes up from the abyss as shown in Rev 20.f
Then he is cast into the fire prepared for him and his angels, going on to destruction as shown in Rev 20.10.So this also gives us the timing of this event in Revelation 17 to when satan is imprisoned surely.
So it is only Satan that fits this description and he is shown to be the dragon on which the Harlot is seated and also shown as being one of the seven/eight kings shown in Rev 17.11 showing he is incarnate in the man of perdition as he was in Judas.
Lk 22.3
” 3(A)And (B)Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve”
So you think Satan is bound in chains now?You don't think he is the accuser now? I see him doing his same activities he was doing during Job's lifetime. Roaming the earth and accusing us before God.
1 Peter 5:8-9
8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.I see him being cast down to earth right before Christs return in Rev. 12:7
Revelation 12:7-10
7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
Hi Mercy,
No you got me wrong. Check Revelation. Satan is only chained at the start of the 1000 yr reign and released at the end of it-o bliss those 1000 years when the lion will lie down with the lamb.Ok we agree then.
But, why are you saying that this verse is describing Satan then? Unless, I am totally misunderstanding you.
Rev 17:8
8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.Once was = sometime prior to John's writing
Now is not = was not around at the time of John's writing because he is in the Abyss. (This can't be Satan)
Yet will come = When he is released from the abyss at the end times.How can the beast be Satan?
The beast seems to be Abaddon in my view who is then given power and authority from Satan. Satans old cronies who left their first estate are back and Abaddon (Azazel) has unfinished business with the world of men. What he did prior to the Flood will be nothing compared to this time around.
Quote (Mercy @ Aug. 29 2006,11:21) Ok we agree then. But, why are you saying that this verse is describing Satan then? Unless, I am totally misunderstanding you.
Rev 17:8
8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.Once was = sometime prior to John's writing
Now is not = was not around at the time of John's writing because he is in the Abyss. (This can't be Satan)
Yet will come = When he is released from the abyss at the end times.How can the beast be Satan?
The beast seems to be Abaddon in my view who is then given power and authority from Satan. Satans old cronies who left their first estate are back and Abaddon (Azazel) has unfinished business with the world of men. What he did prior to the Flood will be nothing compared to this time around.
Hi Mercy,
Revelation is prophecy.
This event occurs in the future.
It did not relate to the time of John and and has not quite come yet.Once was-prior to the 1000yr reign
Now is not – we are seeing the start of the reign in prophecy and Satan is now chained in the abyss.
Yet will come-at the end of 1000 yr reign he will stir up a rebellion against Jesus shown also in Ps 2I think the beast sure sounds like the antichrist that sets himself up to be worshipped as God right before the coming of Christ and is then destroyed by the sword from his mouth.
Which would date that prophetic warning prior to the millenium.The beast is thrown into the Lake of Fire but Satan is bound in the Abyss after Christ's return. Satan is bound by the angel with the key at the begining of the millenium and then loosed for one last rebellion at the end of the millenium right before the white throne judgement.
Satan is then finally thrown into the lake of fire with the beast after the final rebellion is put down.
Hi Mercy,
We know that angels are also shown as stars in scripture from Rev 1.20
“20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”
So it is another way of saying an angel opened the pit.Yes I agree.
I am just confused on why you think Satan = the antichrist.
I am also confused why most people say some future demon possessed human = the antichrist.
I say Abaddon = the antichrist because I believe that is what John's prophecy reveals. In revelation 17:8
Hi Mercy,
Revelation is largely a repetitive story of the endtimes written from different perspectives and using differing idioms.
We see in Revelation;Two men called beasts, an image of the first beast and Satan.
The first beast
The image of that beast
The second beast or false prophet
The Dragon, the deceiver, the serpent, Satan.[Rev 12.9]We see the dragon give the first beast his throne, his authority and his power and he is worshiped. The first beast then behaves as a puppet of Satan. He is indwelled by one of Satan's henchmen but I would agree not Satan himself as the dragon is separate in his fate.
However I see some flaws as usual in my understandings here so back to the drawing board which is always the way with Revelation.
Beasts in prophecy also symbolize a power, the 4 riders are upon horses which represent power – the color of the horses revealing alittle of the outward nature of that power.
The first being white – appears righteous – is a deceiver
The second red – blood – persecution and war
The third black – famine and taxes (financial and political oppression)
The fourth pale (all three colors mixed together) – Death and Hell the rider is revealed.To combat this power we see 4 living creatures which represent the nature of the power of the Spirit of God in the Church (I beleive)
The first like a lion – bold, couragous, fearless, powerful – this was the early church in power
The second like a calf – a beast of burden and sacrifice – this was the church in persecution – a faithful martyr for Christ
The third like a man – this was the cleverness of men in the reformation where we see the likes of Luther, Calvin …
The forth like an eagle – the eagle soars high in the heavenlies – this is the time the church will go in the rapture, also the eagle sees clearly from a great height (eagle eyes) which is typical of prophecy…Then you have the great beast in rev 17 upon which the woman is riding (woman types the church) This beast has represents the power of Satan in the apostate church (the Great Harlot)
I beleive that the Great Beast is the satanic power behind the great 'Universal' Church.
And that the image to the beast is another system of religious power – set up to allow the beast to rule all the rest and bring in the mark of the beast – such that you cannot worship or be recognised as la egitimate without belonging to one or the other system.JMTCW
The beast spoken of that has the seven heads and ten horns is the last world government. It is the son of perdition who was almost dead, who comes back to life. The Roman Empire was almost vanquished, but because it has hid and been nurtured in the shadows of the catholic church, it will once more rise to power.
When the Emporer Constantine of Rome seen his empire crumbling because of the spread of christianity across his kingdom, he conspired that he himself became a believer by the whim of a dream. This diabolical plot was forged not to destroy the church, but to use the church to keep the empire from disappearing from off the face of the earth. As this plan took hold, the catholic religion became more commonly known as the Holy Roman Empire. The head that had suffered a fatal head wound was healed. And not the Roman Empire waits here last date with destiny spoken of in Revelations in which she will bring the world to war against the most high.
The antichrist will be the beast with two horn spoken of in Revelations 13. He will be the head of the beast government. He will make the world worship the beast government.
The son of perdition is alive and well. It is interesting to watch world events today. With the growing tentions in the middleast, it is not hard to see that the end is near and that the careful planning by the son of perdition over these many centuries is paying off. For he has the world in the grasp of his hand. He has corrupted religion. He has taken control of the world's financial systems and he is preparing to play his last hand. The son of perdition is the beast and will bring the world to war against the Most High.
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