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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2008,20:44) Hi KJ,
How many of them outside of the Spirit of God have performed godly miracles and been raised from the dead?
I suppose any of them could have been had a writer said as much. Which is all the evidence that you have of Jesus doing the same: legend and myth. I hardly call that “proof” or “evidence”.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2008,20:58) Yeow KJ. You need da messiah, man.
Which one? The one the OT speaks of (who has not come) or the one the NT speaks of (who does not natch the OT)?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2008,21:09) Yeow KJ. You might need to change your website to findingunbelievers.com
findingunbelievers.com is available.
Sorry t8, but a “believer” is not defined by belief in Jesus alone, though you would have it as such. I throughly believe in a Creator God, I just do not believe that God is accurately defined in the Abrahamic form. I cannot belief in such a bloodthirsty, vengeful, jealous God. The God of the bible is just a supernatural version of mankind.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2008,13:53) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,10:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,08:39) Hi cato,
There is no worse supporter than a lukewarm one.
Rev3
Nick,I firmly support The Almighty, and Lord Jesus, what I don't firmly support is writings of men, that other men compile, declare holy and say is the direct word of the creator. I think strict belief in such, does more harm to heaven's cause then help it.
Imagine relying on the truth being passed on orally though?
Of course not, nor do I say to throw scripture out, what I say it is but one, among many sources of knowledge, and not the exclusive, unadulterated font of truth.Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,23:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.
Hi cato,
So God already accepts all men as servants in His kingdom
and He just wants them to be better ones?No need to be reborn into that kingdom then?
Sounds like new age.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,05:21) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,23:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.
Hi cato,
So God already accepts all men as servants in His kingdom
and He just wants them to be better ones?No need to be reborn into that kingdom then?
Sounds like new age.
Why do you worry about what god wants? Has he not given you your brain with its built-in wired behaviours? As we have discussed before, separated twin studies put a real dampener on the concept of free will, and it would seem that the tendancy to devout religious belief in particular is an inheritable trait. Can you not trust god's judgement? Is god neurotic?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,06:05) Hi Stu,
So you should follow your own driven instincts and desires and that will satisfy God?
Yes, why should you not? Do you not trust a perfect creator?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,03:59) Hi Stu,
Your idea of perfect does not match His.
Does yours? It was Jesus who supposedly said:- Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”Which was a totally Jewish ideal. He never told this man he must be born again. Why not? Was he playing games with those who heard this?
It was only in secret, at night where he told ONE man you must be born again.
Christians have been holding that as the measure of “perfection” ever since because believing in Jesus takes much less effort than keeping the Torah.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,05:21) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,23:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.
Hi cato,
So God already accepts all men as servants in His kingdom
and He just wants them to be better ones?No need to be reborn into that kingdom then?
Sounds like new age.
I believe we are all children and we are growing and evolving into something better, some of us are further along the path then others. I never followed the “born again” ideas for it makes life a pass/fail litmus test that damns the vast majority and saves but a few. It is theory born of fear and elitism and so patently unfair to the overall citizenry of the world, that I can not conceive God setting up such. Infinite ends do not come from finite decisions, especailly when those decisions are so influenced by events outside the control of the individual soul.Quote (Cato @ Mar. 12 2008,22:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,05:21) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,23:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.
Hi cato,
So God already accepts all men as servants in His kingdom
and He just wants them to be better ones?No need to be reborn into that kingdom then?
Sounds like new age.
I believe we are all children and we are growing and evolving into something better, some of us are further along the path then others. I never followed the “born again” ideas for it makes life a pass/fail litmus test that damns the vast majority and saves but a few. It is theory born of fear and elitism and so patently unfair to the overall citizenry of the world, that I can not conceive God setting up such. Infinite ends do not come from finite decisions, especailly when those decisions are so influenced by events outside the control of the individual soul.
Being born again is scriptural and I feel necessary for our salvation. We can only undewrstand the things of God by the Spiirt of God. That is what makes us all one with Jesus God and other Brehtren, if you want to see the Kingdom of God.
I dont think it is made that easy for us, why would Jesus say then on the Sermon on the Mount, that the road is steep and few will find it.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Cato @ Mar. 12 2008,22:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,05:21) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 11 2008,23:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,12:16) Hi cato,
Has heaven any other cause for us than we believe and obey scripture?
I believe the goal of heaven, at least as far as humanity is concerned, is our spiritual advancement and evolution. To become better men and women and when we become such we will be better servants of the Almighty and stewarts of his creation. Belief and obdience in any event are not ends but means to an end that you never elaborate.
Hi cato,
So God already accepts all men as servants in His kingdom
and He just wants them to be better ones?No need to be reborn into that kingdom then?
Sounds like new age.
I believe we are all children and we are growing and evolving into something better, some of us are further along the path then others. I never followed the “born again” ideas for it makes life a pass/fail litmus test that damns the vast majority and saves but a few. It is theory born of fear and elitism and so patently unfair to the overall citizenry of the world, that I can not conceive God setting up such. Infinite ends do not come from finite decisions, especailly when those decisions are so influenced by events outside the control of the individual soul.
Hi cato,
So we can design our own way and they are all correct?So God creates our souls at physical conception, throws us into the world at birth with vastly different circumstances thereof and gives us all the same test of faith with the same ultimate results. For what purpose then are we created? Most of us then fall in the cosmic wasteheap, the dross separated from the few remaining souls of purity? Woe to the poor souls who are born in the non-evangelical Christian world for their chances are slim indeed. God has definitely stacked the odds against many, it does not make any sense. The universe runs on logic and this defies such. Eternal ends never come from finite causes.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 12 2008,22:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2008,03:59) Hi Stu,
Your idea of perfect does not match His.
Does yours? It was Jesus who supposedly said:- Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”Which was a totally Jewish ideal. He never told this man he must be born again. Why not? Was he playing games with those who heard this?
It was only in secret, at night where he told ONE man you must be born again.
Christians have been holding that as the measure of “perfection” ever since because believing in Jesus takes much less effort than keeping the Torah.
Hi KJ,
The primary mission of Christ was to the Jews under the Law.When the one who is truth was asked WHAT GOOD DEED he was being asked about the works of the Law.
He gave similar answers whenever he was asked about the Law but to the RICH YOUNG MAN he offered the new and perfect way of following him.
Mt 19
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Quote (Cato @ Mar. 13 2008,06:32) So God creates our souls at physical conception, throws us into the world at birth with vastly different circumstances thereof and gives us all the same test of faith with the same ultimate results. For what purpose then are we created? Most of us then fall in the cosmic wasteheap, the dross separated from the few remaining souls of purity? Woe to the poor souls who are born in the non-evangelical Christian world for their chances are slim indeed. God has definitely stacked the odds against many, it does not make any sense. The universe runs on logic and this defies such. Eternal ends never come from finite causes.
Hi cato,
Have you not been given an opportunity to hear the good news of Jesus Christ? If you have why are you complaining against your Maker?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2008,06:44) Quote (Cato @ Mar. 13 2008,06:32) So God creates our souls at physical conception, throws us into the world at birth with vastly different circumstances thereof and gives us all the same test of faith with the same ultimate results. For what purpose then are we created? Most of us then fall in the cosmic wasteheap, the dross separated from the few remaining souls of purity? Woe to the poor souls who are born in the non-evangelical Christian world for their chances are slim indeed. God has definitely stacked the odds against many, it does not make any sense. The universe runs on logic and this defies such. Eternal ends never come from finite causes.
Hi cato,
Have you not been given an opportunity to hear the good news of Jesus Christ? If you have why are you complaining against your Maker?
That sounds an awful lot like ” we got ours, don't worry about the ones who did not.”Not very Christianlike.
Tim
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