Should i expose my church leaders?

Participant

Hi All,
Terra rica- Pierre said in Response to accustations:

Quote

Irene

forgive my English,but read what i say to what SF says

i do not think i judge him beside telling him that his thinking is wrong,

Pierre

So according to what you said Pierre, the only thing you said is that im “wrong”.??
Lets find out.

Pierre orginally said:

Quote

you are wrong,God as his eyes focused on the righteous ,but you are not a righteous person ,so misconduct is normal for you,

everyone works with his conscience and will be judge by it ,

Pierre did you not say that SF
1. Is not a Rigtheous Person
2. Misconduct is normal for Me

You believe this is not Judgeing Pierre?
Are you not lying?

March 8, 2011 at 6:54 am#238393

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,23:05)

Hi All,
Terra rica- Pierre said in Response to accustations:

Quote

Irene

forgive my English,but read what i say to what SF says

i do not think i judge him beside telling him that his thinking is wrong,

Pierre

So according to what you said Pierre, the only thing you said is that im “wrong”.??
Lets find out.

Pierre orginally said:

Quote

you are wrong,God as his eyes focused on the righteous ,but you are not a righteous person ,so misconduct is normal for you,

everyone works with his conscience and will be judge by it ,

Pierre did you not say that SF
1. Is not a Rigtheous Person
2. Misconduct is normal for Me

You believe this is not Judgeing Pierre?
Are you not lying?

this is why i respond what i say ;Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 02 2011,13:54)
I Think God doesnt care about such things.
Its stupid, and totally centered around Man's goverment and politics.

this was your respond to the misbehavior of the board members in the KJ tittle;

and because of your Remarque about God i conclude what i have said.

all can judge now..

Pierre

March 8, 2011 at 7:05 am#238395

Participant

So your conclusion is based on that I said that “God doesnt care about such things”?

what the heck do you think im refferring too?
To a govermental procedures within A Church that somehow decides whether or not a Pastor must be “FORGIVEN” for a Loan?

for 15000 dollars???

You think God cares for these things?
Do you not think this is heresy, and its like stamping Gods holy name on a Man's Politics and dogmas and than say its Holy Rightouesness?

Whats going on in Jacks church has nothing to do with God.
If they are servants of God, why vote? IF the claim they know God, why Vote for God? Doesnt God have a say in all of this? Does he not have a Will either that we must folllow?

Yet somehow in all of this mess of politics and money they forgot about God and left him out the picture.
The church is a scam, no wonder thier are people who want nothing to do with Church or chrisitians.
No wonder thier are people like Stuart who dont believe.

I dont blame them. Its Foolishness to believe in such things.

March 8, 2011 at 7:59 am#238405

karmarie

Participant

God cares more about people starving to death and dying of hunger. As long as we have a roof over our head and food to eat then we should count our blessings, and be thankful. And if we trust in God then God will help us with the rest.

March 8, 2011 at 10:36 am#238419

Baker

Participant

karmaria and SF I agree with both of you…… Peace Irene

March 8, 2011 at 4:54 pm#238425

Participant

all

Ps 7:9 O righteous God,
who searches minds and hearts,
bring to an end the violence of the wicked
and make the righteous secure.
Ps 7:11 God is a righteous judge,
a God who expresses his wrath every day.

Ps 11:5 The LORD examines the righteous,

Ps 11:7 For the LORD is righteous,
he loves justice;
upright men will see his face.

Ps 14:5 There they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
Ps 15:2 He whose walk is blameless
and who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from his heart

Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure
and altogether righteous.

Ps 32:11 Rejoice in the LORD and be glad, you righteous;
sing, all you who are upright in heart!

Ps 34:21 Evil will slay the wicked;
the foes of the righteous will be condemned.
Ps 37:12 The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;

I am surprise to see that you can separate God from any of your works,

were did you read your version ??

it by our words that we will be condemned .

what ever we say,or think and feel are part of us ,no one can change that.

Pierre

March 8, 2011 at 5:41 pm#238428

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,15:45)

Jack,
Im sorry, this has nothing to do with Righteousness.
Its a harsh reality.

You're wrong SF. “Love does no harm to its neighbor.”

March 8, 2011 at 5:51 pm#238429

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,01:05)

The church is a scam, no wonder thier are people who want nothing to do with Church or chrisitians.
No wonder thier are people like Stuart who dont believe.

I dont blame them. Its Foolishness to believe in such things.

Dennison

I don't think your blanket statement of the church is fair at all.

Come on, if the Church had to be perfect for people to believe then what about the Corinthians? My God they were guilty of all kinds of fleshly and carnal activities including incest yet they were still the Church.

What about the 7 churchs of Revelations? Each one of them had a rebuke from the Lord and the Laodiceans were “increased with goods and had need of nothing” yet Jesus stood at the door and knocked and desired to have fellowship with them.

Blessings to you. I hope you find a body of believers that you can call your church if you don't already have one.

March 8, 2011 at 6:10 pm#238434

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 09 2011,00:59)

KAR

Dt 28:61 The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed.
Dt 29:19 When such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself and therefore thinks, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way.” This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry.

Dt 31:29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made.”
Dt 32:35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them.

Jos 24:20 If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.”

Ge 19:19 Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die

Dt 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you

Dt 6:25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness

Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Lk 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Jn 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

what you think now??

Pierre

March 8, 2011 at 6:36 pm#238438

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 09 2011,03:51)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,01:05)

The church is a scam, no wonder thier are people who want nothing to do with Church or chrisitians.
No wonder thier are people like Stuart who dont believe.

I dont blame them. Its Foolishness to believe in such things.

Dennison

I don't think your blanket statement of the church is fair at all.

Blessings to you. I hope you find a body of believers that you can call your church if you don't already have one.

Keith,

I knew that some would misuse my concern as a soap box against churches. This is why I would not mention the denomination my church is in. I knew that some people would impute guilt by association.

The denominational heads said last sunday that they would be meeting with the board to deal with problem issues. This is exactly the way it is supposed to work. But somme people are just going to use examples like I have given as an excuse to bash the church.

As you know I am not too “orthodox” even by the standards of my own denomination. I believe they cling to many “orthodox” doctrines which I believe are error. But I want to be in church to worship God and also for the sense of community.

Your points about the seven the church at Corinth and the seven churches in Asia is most relevant.

Jack

March 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm#238439

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,21:51)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,01:05)

The church is a scam, no wonder thier are people who want nothing to do with Church or chrisitians.
No wonder thier are people like Stuart who dont believe.

I dont blame them. Its Foolishness to believe in such things.

Dennison

I don't think your blanket statement of the church is fair at all.

Blessings to you. I hope you find a body of believers that you can call your church if you don't already have one.

WJ the bible is very clear about the Church in Ephesians.
27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Should I not take this literally? How about these statements from Jesus himself?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Define Church WJ? Because what you present i do not believe is the church. Is church when people gather togethor? Might as well call Muslims part of our church also.
IS church only include those who believe in Christ?
Why not include the Muslims, Jews, Mormons, and Anti-trins also? They believe in Christ in one way or another?
WJ all the churchs believe in a set doctrine, so how could you call all of them a “church”? Makes the church sound like a whore.
Lets bring the word “truth” into the field as well.
If your willing to call many who believe in Christ Church, should we also say that they all have truth as well?

For all contradictions to be true, is the Death of Truth.
Therefore if the Churchs contradict eachother, than there must be a abosolute.

Church is not whatever we feel like it, but Church is when God is with us, In us, One with us, in our daily lives, and we are gathered togethor NOT under a building full of idolatry but as a fellowship that has no membership.
That its hard to get it in because you must KNOW God, and easy to leave.

WJ, Think about your statements. These churchs of revelations were REBUKED. Does that not tell you something?
They continued with thier desires and just Stamped Gods name on it.

Look either way, you cannot compare the First church to Todays church, because they are nothing alike.
What Peter and Paul established is nothing like we have today. Peter and Paul wrote the the CHURCH and not to the Pastors. As a People and not as a people under one person.
They all had communication between one another.
It was never “Laocieans is the only True church lets come here and the church of Ephesus is wrong and they are a small church dont go there”
They were unified under all one banner, and that was under Christ as the head.

What about the “Pastors” only leading the churchs like kings? or a group of people running the goverments of one church?

Im young, and where im from ive seen alot of evil things of the church. Where u had pay churchs so they can work togethor.
There is a great division between churchs because they are not of God, buttttt Inspite of what Man does, God always prevails.

I hope i never find a church under a building, under a pastor who acts like a king.
I hope to find what exactly the bible calls a Church “without blemish”

March 8, 2011 at 6:59 pm#238440

Participant

SF said:

Quote

I hope to find what exactly the bible calls a Church “without blemish”

The church without blemish is in heaven.

March 8, 2011 at 7:05 pm#238441

Participant

all

if you are with a church or not that does not change the position of the righteous man,
or the obedience to God, does it ??

Pierre

March 8, 2011 at 7:07 pm#238444

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,12:53)

Is church when people gather togethor?

Dennison

Yes, Jesus said if two or three of you are gathered in his name then he would be in the midst.

The Greek word for “Church” is “ekklēsia” which means…

a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

Hebrews tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some.

Yes Jesus is looking for a church without spot or wrinkle but the Bible shows us that the churches of the scriptures were growing and yet struggling with division and sin.

The Body of Christ is the Church made up of every believer yet the scriptures teach there were local churches where the saints gathered.

March 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm#238446

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 08 2011,23:07)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 08 2011,12:53)

Is church when people gather togethor?

Dennison

Yes, Jesus said if two or three of you are gathered in his name then he would be in the midst.

The Greek word for “Church” is “ekklēsia” which means…

a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

Hebrews tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some.

Yes Jesus is looking for a church without spot or wrinkle but the Bible shows us that the churches of the scriptures were growing and yet struggling with division and sin.

The Body of Christ is the Church made up of every believer yet the scriptures teach there were local churches where the saints gathered.

The Body of Christ, which is the True Church WJ.
I dont believe its made up of ever believer, because many claim to believe.
Its made up those who Know God and known of whom he sent.
John 17 again.

Scriptures tell of many local places? yes of course, but was it deemed holy? worshipped as the one and only church?

Do you not understand what im saying?

What your stating now is not like what Paul nor peter Intended.

Gather Yes, Wherever, whenever, and for Whatever reason as a Church.

In other words.

WE ARE the Church. Those who know God.
The People, not the building, not the “memberships” of the church. not who the Pastor deems worthy to be part of the leadership or the church.

Am i making sense or not? really im asking?

March 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm#238450

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Dennison

You are making sense but I think you are underestimating the importance of local churchs.

Jesus himself mentioned the names of the local churchs which are usually named after their own cities.

How else can the Eph 4:11-16 be fulfilled? How can the gifts in 1 Cor chapter 12-chapter 14 be fulfilled?

The scriptures as well as history shows local churchs as a vital part of the work of God.

Paul addressed Timothy as a Bishop etc.

There will be divisions and sin until the Church has reached the full stature of Christ as Eph 4 teaches.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; for he is faithful that promised; And “let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Heb 10:23-25

No man is an island to himself and in fact Paul said how can the foot say I don't need the hand? (1 Cor 12)

Just my Opinion but I think it is vital to be part of a local body of believers who are also part of the Body of Christ which is made up of every believer and if they are not in the Body of Christ then they are not believers.

Blessing Keith

March 8, 2011 at 8:15 pm#238452

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 08 2011,12:47)

Hi Jack,

You never did tell us what denomination the church is that you go to?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump for Jack

March 8, 2011 at 8:29 pm#238454