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Hi kenrch,
So what are you accusing the brethren of here?
Have we encouraged anyone to break any commands of God?
In what way do you judge that we are breaking the sabbath,
or is it just that we do not agree with you once again?Can I just if Paul went against the law for teaching the following:
Romans 14:5-6
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:53) Can I just if Paul went against the law for teaching the following: Romans 14:5-6
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:1 But him that is weak in faith receive ye, yet not for decision of scruples.
Rom 14:2 **One man hath faith “TO EAT ALL THINGS” to eat all things: but he that is weak eateth herbs.**
Rom 14:3 Let not him that “EATETH” set at nought him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that “NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OT ITSELF”: save that to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 For if because of “MEAT” thy brother is grieved, thou walkest no longer in love. Destroy not with thy meat him for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is “NOT EATING AND DRINKING” but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.Rom 14:20 Overthrow not for “MEAT'S” sake the work of God. All things “INDEED ARE CLEAN”; howbeit it is evil for that man who “EATETH” with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to “EAT FLESH”, nor to drink wine, nor to do anything whereby thy brother stumbleth.
Rom 14:22 The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth.
Rom 14:23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he “EAT”, because he eateth not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.Clearly This is about FOOD and the annual feast days that went with food, Mosses' law.
Gal 4:9 but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years.Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Either this is what Paul is speaking of or he makes Jesus a liar.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.Do the above scriptures (John 4:24 & Rom 8:6&7) agree?
Do you worship God in Spirit and truth?
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing [Moses' law], “but the keeping of the commandments of God”.
Paul says HEY! You know what matters? The keeping of the Commandments of God!
IHN,
Ken
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2007,08:25) Hi kenrch,
So what are you accusing the brethren of here?
Have we encouraged anyone to break any commands of God?
In what way do you judge that we are breaking the sabbath,
or is it just that we do not agree with you once again?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.Do the above scriptures (John 4:24 & Rom 8:6&7) agree?
Do you worship God in Spirit and truth?
How's that?
IHN,
Ken
PS Nick just in case you haven't figured it out I'm not going to answer any of your questions until you answer mine. Of course everyone knows that you don't answer because you don't have an answer.
Hi kenrch,
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Make no mistake the OT Law continues to EXIST.
Should you choose to subject yourself to it it is a hard and demanding master.
But if you would be perfect be rather born again into Christ and have the new law written on your heart.Hi kenrch,
Do you sin?
Scripture says the sons of God do not sin yet they do.
Do you always fully obey all the commandments?
I doubt it but why should we be surprised that scripture says we do obey them.I prefer God's view of us than that of our brothers.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2007,18:29) Hi kenrch,
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Make no mistake the OT Law continues to EXIST.
Should you choose to subject yourself to it it is a hard and demanding master.
But if you would be perfect be rather born again into Christ and have the new law written on your heart.Rev 7:3 The angel said, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees, until we mark the servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads.”
Still banging your head up against the wall trying to make scriptures say what you want?It IS those who are born again who love God and keep HIS Commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
“Should you choose to subject yourself to it it is a hard and demanding master”. FUNNY THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE SAYS. Just so you don't miss it that's 1 JOHN 5:3.
No more excuses Nick!
When I fall, miss the mark, Jesus will forgive me.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.NEW LAW? YOU MEAN NICK'S LAW DON'T YOU.
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.What is this “new” law Nick? LOVE?
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
If you love me keep my commandments.
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Let's see Nick's law is I love the Lord with ALL my heart and soul and mind but I break HIS commandments LOL!!!
Look right back up and what dose the SCRIPTURE say? I can't find anywhere in the bible Nick's translation of any scripture that says we can break GOD'S commandments.
Should you choose to subject yourself to it it is a hard and demanding master.
You choose not to obey God?
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: “and his commandments are not grievous”.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because **they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved**.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Are you going to let Satan win Nick? Are you going to keep the mark of the beast OR reject it and receive the mark of God!
Come out of her my people. Rev 18:4
If I were you Nicky I would go back and read all what you have given in your defense. Ask the Holy Spirit to open your eyes AND SOFTEN YOUR HEART. Unless you have not the love of the truth.
IHN&L,
Ken
BTW I thought the law was done away with?
But now: “Make no mistake the OT Law continues to EXIST”.
Which is it Nick? I love the truth!
Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 12 2007,09:04) Clearly This is about FOOD and the annual feast days that went with food, Mosses' law.
So this has nothing to do with one man being able to consider one day more sacred than another; another man considering every day alike and each being fully convinced in his own mind what he has chosen?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2007,23:00) Hi,
The traffic laws in Afganistan exist, but do not necessarily apply to you and I.
Oooh! That proves a lot.Well my God owns everything and His law is for it all not just a little country.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,23:01) Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 12 2007,09:04) Clearly This is about FOOD and the annual feast days that went with food, Mosses' law.
So this has nothing to do with one man being able to consider one day more sacred than another; another man considering every day alike and each being fully convinced in his own mind what he has chosen?
“Clearly This is about FOOD and the “annual feast DAYS” that went with food, Mosses' law”.Food and feasts days. If you keep a feasts day then I would say that you are keeping a feasts day that Jesus fulfilled above others. In any event we go back to Moses' law, don't we?
Hi kenrch,
Did the OT law apply to everyone?
What of the gentiles? Rom 2
” 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
What of Heb 8?
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
t8
Quote Can I just if Paul went against the law for teaching the following: Romans 14:5-6
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.A certain law of ordinances was nailed to the cross. This was the ceremonial or sacrificial law of types and shadows that pointed forward to the death of Jesus and that had no further meaning beyond the cross. This is why Paul said it was contrary to the Christian. The rent veil in the temple at the death of Christ (Matthew 27:51) indicated the end of that ordinance of animal sacrifices, and Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus “abolished … the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”
This is why Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16,17 that we are no longer judged by the meat offerings, drink offerings, and sabbath days “which are a shadow of things to come.” Take note that these are yearly and not the weekly Sabbath of the moral law. These shadowy sabbaths are described in Leviticus 23:24-37. They fell on certain set days of the month–a different day of the week each year, yet they were called sabbaths. But please observe in verses 37 and 38 how they were distinguished from the weekly Sabbath: “These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, every thing upon his day, BESIDE THE SABBATHS OF THE LORD.”
The law of the yearly sabbaths, with all its meat and drink offerings, was nailed to the cross, but the great Ten Commandment law with its weekly Sabbath was not affected by that “blotting out” of sacrificial ordinances.
Jesus said in Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.This helps clear up also Romans 14:5-6. No where does Paul mention the 7th day Sabbath of the 4th commandment. Paul here is addressing the Romans who are converting to Christianity and of what of the Jewish ceremonial laws are still intact. Remember that Jewish laws such as circumcision were not to be urged upon new gentile converts. Some of the Jews converting to Christianity were still not yet converted with regards to the ceremonial sacrificial laws and sacrificial holy days being abolished. Paul said in Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Paul is saying not to put a stumblingblock in the way of these new converts with regards to sacrificial laws who were not yet established in the faith. Paul is not talking about the Sabbath commandment but the Jewish sacrificial holy days.
Paul by his own example continued to keep the Sabbath through his life and ministry.
Acts13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the GRACE of God.
13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.In fact Isaiha prophesised that throughout eternity God's redeemed will keep the Sabbath Day as holy.
Isaiha 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.The Romans Catholic church openly admit that changing the day of worship was their own doing and not substantiated by scripture. they claim it as a MARK of their authority.
The MARK of the beast is SUNday worship
“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change” (Sabbath to SUNday) “was her act. And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.” HF Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (Catholic Church).
“Sunday is our MARK or authority…the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1 1923.
“From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord's day, she has handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, inadequate as it of course is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.”-D. B. RAY, “The Papal Controversy,” 1892, page 179.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,01:43) Hi kenrch,
Did the OT law apply to everyone?
What of the gentiles? Rom 2
” 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
What of Heb 8?
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
There's your answer Nick.13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
You are a hearer and not a doer, Right?
You hear the Ten Commandments but don't keep them and teach others they don't have to keep them.
What was JESUS talking about?
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Do you even have an answer? NO Nick you don't but what you do have are empty words and twisted scripture.
Just as God used Pharaoh He is using you LOL!
IHN,
Ken
Hi Kenrch,
Indeed Jesus did come to fulfill the Law and did so.
And it remains for those who choose to submit themselves to it.
But for those in Christ and under the freeing law of the Spirit it has already been fulfilled.
Is it against faith in Christ to attempt to do so because that faith has already given us the robe of his righteousness.
Either the Spirit is allowed to lead us or we are back behind the wheel and heading off the road.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,18:44) Hi Kenrch,
Indeed Jesus did come to fulfill the Law and did so.
And it remains for those who choose to submit themselves to it.
But for those in Christ and under the freeing law of the Spirit it has already been fulfilled.
Is it against faith in Christ to attempt to do so because that faith has already given us the robe of his righteousness.
Either the Spirit is allowed to lead us or we are back behind the wheel and heading off the road.
What law did Jesus fulfill:Luk 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, **that everything written about me in the LAW Of MOSES and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”**
Can you read? Which law?
Now if you are going to say that they are the same as the Ten Commandments then WHY did Jesus say this:
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Has heaven and earth passed away?
“But for those in Christ and under the freeing law of the Spirit it has already been fulfilled.”
What spirit do you have that's tell you it's alright to sin?
1Jo 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
What spirit would tell you such a thing?The spirit of flesh! Your spirit!
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
All scripture Nick where's your scripture?Keep on Pharaoh LOL!
IHN,
Ken
Hi P,
Look at the perfecting aspects of Matt 5 and you will see that Jesus went through that door and then closed it after him.
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