Seed of David

[texasag99]

How is it possible that Jesus is of the Seed of David?

The geanology provided at the beginning of the epistles shows the direct connection coming from David thru Joseph. The problem I am having is how does that work if Jesus was not conceived by Joseph's seed but by the Holy Spirit. So how does christianity account for this disconnect? Shouldn't Mary also be of the seed of David too?

[texasag99]

to add to this I have just read that the geanology in Matthew and the Geanology in Luke are different from David. One showing that Joseph comes from the line of Nathan son of David (Luke) and the other (Matthew) shows Joseph coming from the line of Solomon son of David.

I am learning that some fundamentalist believe that one is for the geanology for Joseph and the other is for Mary. The problem is that Isaiah said that Jesus would come from David via Solomon (not Nathan) but further on the line from Solomon (in Matthew) there is the king Jeconiah (aka Coniah) who is cursed by God not to have a descendant who sits on the thrown (Jer 22:30).

I am stuck… I see this as a major flaw in Christian doctrine that I can't seem to figure out.

Help!

[Cubes]

Hello Tex,

Welcome!

First off, I must say that there are others much more qualified to inform you on this topic than I am, but I am very much interested in it, so here I am. Hopefully, we can all learn something worth knowing together.

I don't believe that Mary necessarily has to be from the house of David. It would suffice that she was from Israel. In fact, Ruth, David's Great grandmother was not Jewish at all, and speculatively, it is doubtful whether Bathsheba (King Solomon's Mother) was Jewish. She was married to a Hittite who were being ruled over by Israel at the time, so what are the chances that a Hittite might have married a woman of Israel in those days?

More importantly though, only the males in the line of David had rights to the throne, as to my knowledge, there was never a queen. Therefore, it is doubtful that Mary could pass such rights to Jesus even if she was from the house of David.

The possibility that Jesus is an adopted heir to the Throne of David does not pan out either, as ascension to the Throne, like the Levitical priesthood, land inheritance etc are by bloodline only and not through adoption, etc. It was explained to be that if a family from David were to adopt a child from the Levite side of Israel, that child could not ascend the Throne. Also, that child would be considered a priest (depending on his line), regardless of whether or not he was raised by Levites. This is because of his blood heritage.

It makes sense to me that it should also apply to Christ and the Throne of David.

Now, the Jeconiah issue is believed to have been resolved, as his later years were better than the first. Thus, some believe that the curse was intended to be a warning, that IF Jeconiah were to continue in the way he was going, a, b, c and d would happen to him (the curse). Since he appeared to have repented, the curse apparently did not take effect. I must say that I have not yet looked into it scripturally to determine how true this is… but the good news is that the bible is available (not in heaven or under the sea…, if you know what I mean).

Also, the genealogies differ in Matt and Luke (Solomon & Nathan), but I don't see that as a problem. In fact, to me that's a double knot and a firm one making Messiah doubly, the son of David through the blessed Bathsheba. I am speculating that it is possible for Joseph to be both the Son of Heli and Jacob, if one of them was his natural father and the other his mother's father.

Blessings to you.

The only question pending therefore is how he genealogically has claims to the Throne, if his conception was immaculate by the virgin Mary.

[Cubes]

Quote (Cubes @ Nov. 28 2006,21:36)

More importantly though, only the males in the line of David had rights to the throne, as to my knowledge, there was never a queen.  Therefore, it is doubtful that Mary could pass such rights to Jesus even if she was from the house of David.

Actually, I just remembered the infamous Athaliah of 2 Kings 11, so have to go and read up on it again… and get back to you.

[Cubes]

2 Kings 11:1 And when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the SEED ROYAL.

2 Kings 11:2 But Jehosheba, the daughter of king Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king's sons [which were] slain; and they hid him, [even] him and his nurse, in the bedchamber from Athaliah, so that he was not slain.

2Ki 11:3 And he was with her hid in the house of the LORD six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

2Ki 11:4 ¶ And the seventh year Jehoiada sent and fetched the rulers over hundreds, with the captains and the guard, and brought them to him into the house of the LORD, and made a covenant with them, and took an oath of them in the house of the LORD, and shewed them the king's son.

—
2Ki 11:11 And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, [along] by the altar and the temple.

2Ki 11:12 And he brought forth the king's son, and put the crown upon him, and [gave him] the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king.

2Ki 11:13 ¶ And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard [and] of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD.

2Ki 11:14 And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner [was], and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.

2Ki 11:15 But Jehoiada the priest commanded the captains of the hundreds, the officers of the host, and said unto them, Have her forth without the ranges: and him that followeth her kill with the sword. For the priest had said, Let her not be slain in the house of the LORD.

2Ki 11:16 And they laid hands on her; and she went by the way by the which the horses came into the king's house: and there was she slain.

2Ki 11:17 ¶ And Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people, that they should be the LORD'S people; between the king also and the people.

[Cubes]

Hi all:

So Jeconiah's curse is not shown to have been lifted in the scriptures.  

The following article from a Judaism perspective turned up on google.

http://www.geocities.com/antimissionary/

JESUS' GENEALOGY
Please read this brilliant Genealogy Paper published on the Toras Emes Page first. Take a notice of the following in this paper: “Problem 3 You will notice in Matthew's lineage that Jeconiah was listed as a forerunner of Jesus. This disqualifies Jesus from being Messiah. Why? Because Jeconiah (also known as Coniah or Jehoniachin) was cursed by HASHEM and his descendants forbidden to rule on David's throne. Jeremiah 22:24-30 (NIV)…”

According to the major opinion in Judaism one has to descend from King David and King Solomon to be eligible to be the Messiah. How is it possible that this Genealogy Paper claims that all descendants of the cursed king Jeconiah including Jesus are disqualified to be the Messiah? After all it is well know that Jeconiah did Teshuvah (repentance) and was forgiven by Hashem. Please read this previously unpublished essay by Rabbi Tovia Singer which deals with this essue.

Dear Rabbi Singer,

In one of your tapes you point out that in Jeremiah 22:30, King Jeconiah was cursed by the prophet Jeremiah that none of Jeconiah's descendants would ever become be king. According to Matthew's genealogy, Jesus was a descendant of Jeconiah, and Jesus would thus be ineligible to be the messiah. When I was discussing this point with a messianic pastor, however, he responded that according to the Talmud the curse on Jeconiah was reversed and therefore, based on the opinion of the rabbis this curse no longer would effect Jesus_ ability to be the messiah. Would you explain this all to me? How do I respond?

Answer:

The makeup of the genealogy of any claimant to the throne of David requires careful scrutiny because any Davidic king of the Jewish people, the messiah included, must trace his lineage back to King David, the most prestigious family of the tribe of Judah. This was well known to the author of the first gospel, who therefore begins the Book of Matthew with his version of Jesus' genealogy. One of the numerous problems that missionaries are confronted with regard to Matthew's genealogy of Jesus is the well-known curse upon a descendant of King David. In Jeremiah 22:30, the evil King Jeconiah was condemned and cursed by Jeremiah that none of his descendants would ever rise up to be a king over the Jewish people and sit on the throne of David. According to Matthew 1:11-12, Jesus was a descendant of King Jeconiah and therefore was ineligible to be the messiah because of this curse. Jeremiah 22:30 states: Thus saith the Lord, “Write ye this man [Jeconiah] childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah.” The consequences of Jeremiah's curse were immediate and devastating. For example, no descendant of Jeconiah would ever sit on the throne of David. The king who followed Jeconiah was therefore not his son Shealtiel, who ordinarily would have been the rightful heir to his father's throne. Due to the prophet's curse, however, Jeconiah's son Shealtiel was ineligible to reign as king and the kingship was given instead to Zedekiah, Jeconiah's uncle. Ironically, although Jeconiah was thoroughly wicked, his grandson Zerubavel was remarkably righteous, and as a result, he played a central role in the restoration of the second commonwealth. In fact, as a result of his faithfulness, Zerubavel was bestowed with great authority over the Jewish people. This authority was, however, limited. When the Jewish people returned from their Babylonian exile, although Zerubavel was given the signet ring of nobility and power (Haggai 2:23), he was unable to sit on the throne of David and rule as king. Instead, as a result of Jeremiah's curse on his grandfather, Zerubavel could only act as governor over the Jewish people. In response to the problem of Jesus' cursed ancestry, missionaries point to rabbinic literature which indicates that the curse placed upon Jeconiah was reversed. According to an opinion found in a number of rabbinic sources, which include Tractate Sanhedrin and Leviticus Rabbah, Jeremiah's devastating curse was reversed as a result of Jeconiah's heartfelt repentance while imprisoned in his tiny Babylonian dungeon. This opinion states that while Jeconiah was in his cell, his wife was lowered into the small confinement where Jeconiah was imprisoned. He had not seen her for a long time and Jeconiah desired greatly to be intimate with her. His wife warned him, however, that she was menstruating and it would be sinful for them to indulge in marital relations during that time. In spite of Jeconiah's desire to be with her, he resisted committing this grave sin of having sexual relations with a menstruous woman. As a result of this extraordinary act of contrite repentance in exile, the curse of Jeremiah 22:30 was lifted. The Talmud therefore concludes that repentance in exile atones for all sins. With this moving statement in the Talmud in hand, the same missionaries who loudly reject and condemn the authority of the Talmud, joyfully use this rabbinic opinion regarding the reversal of the curse upon Jeconiah to resolve their stunning problem of Jesus' cursed lineage. Have these Christians solved their vexing problem? Not at all. In their effort to use this profound rabbinic statement to address the curse on Jeconiah, missionaries generate two brand new problems for themselves that are far more severe than Jeremiah's curse upon Jeconiah. The first problem that this missionary response creates is that this section of the Talmud that they are quoting from undermines the very foundations of the Christianity that they zealously seek to uphold. Tractate Sanhedrin (37b) introduces the events regarding Jeconiah's repentance in a Babylon jail to demonstrate that a sinner's penitence in exile atones for all sins. In fact, the section of the Talmud that missionaries use opens with that very point. The text begins by proclaiming that “Rabbi Yochanan said, 'Exile atones for everything . . . '” To illustrate this teaching, the Talmud uses the illustration of the reversal of the curse on Jeconiah. When missionaries use this Talmudic text to ameliorate Jesus' problematic genealogy, they therefore concede that man can enjoy a complete atonement without a blood sacrifice. From this rabbinic viewpoint, Jeconiah is the paradigm of the man whose own repentance alone atoned for all of his sins. This teaching completely contradicts the Christian doctrine that maintains that sin can only be expiated through the shedding of blood, not through his own merit. In essence, by relying on this statement in the Talmud missionaries are acknowledging that Jesus' death on the cross was completely unnecessary for the atonement and salvation of mankind. The second problem generated by this missionary response is even more problematic. If missionaries are going to trust the words of the rabbis that the curse upon Jeconiah was reversed, although nowhere is this fact stated in the Bible, then they must therefore concede that the God-given authority of the rabbis is equal to the words of the Bible. Yet all these rabbis, with one voice, proclaimed that Jesus was a false messiah. In fact, the same Tractate Sanhedrin that missionaries quote from clearly states that Jesus of Nazareth was neither virtuous nor the messiah. Missionaries cannot have it both ways.

Best wishes for a happy and healthy New Year, Rabbi Tovia Singer

[Cubes]

Athaliah was not of the BLOOD lineage of King David, … so was not heir to the throne, and her ascension was by stealth and against normal protocol.

She was the sister of King Ahab, King of Israel (10 tribes, northern kingdom), and the daughter of King Omri, King of Israel, while the kings of Judah (David's House) reigned in the south after Solomon's death and the Once unified kingdom became split into two, with the majority falling away to comprise of the northern kingdom.

1 King 16 and 2 Kings 8

[Cubes]

REPENTANCE:

I don't know if ANY PORTION of the TALMUD was in existence before and during the life of Jesus, if any portions of it is quoted in the NT.  At any rate, we don't need the TALMUD to tell us about Jeconiah at the price they are offering.  We know that God in his grace and prerogative, has a custom of forgiving us when we repent, or lessens whatever punishment he might have intended:  repentence is therefore in harmony with our Christian faith and the scriptures that we hold to show precedence of God forgiving when sinners genuinely repent, and we can be confident in that.  

We do not know in the scriptures whether or not Jeconiah ever repented, but I believe that the mention of Zerubbabel and his role as governor, and the building of the second temple is a good sign at any rate.  The scriptures said the glory of the 2nd temple exceeded the first under Zerubbabel.    Additionally, I may be wrong, but it would appear that the last king OF JUDAH (DAVID) prior to Jesus' appearing was Zedekiah… Daniel and them were princes of Judah but no one was enthroned after the returnees from exile, right?  Secondly, was it the Lord's will that Zedekiah be king and could the throne have been understood to have passed to him?  He was enthroned by Nebuchadnezzar, wasn't he?  and was not all that kosher himself.  Did any of Zedekiah's heir ascend?  So unless the Lord approved and anointed him or another person to the throne, then as far as we know Jeconiah would have had to be forgiven, and the throne, STILL in his lineage.  It is too important a thing for the Lord to have left unresolved and open-ended.  And he didn't, because Jesus came to be born and all who believed affirmed that he is the Son of David and KING of Israel.  That's good enough for me.

God was all set to destroy Ninevah but relented when they repented.  

The prodigal son repented and returned to his father, and oh how great was the rejoicing!  Joseph's brothers repented and came to dwell with their brother in Egypt and partake of his blessings.  

Luke 13:2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 15:3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

[Cubes]

The Herodian kings were ruling during Jesus' life time, and Herod certainly did seek to destroy the infant Jesus. I didn't get the feeling that Caiaphas and co were enthusiastic about Herod's reign or that he was from the house of David.

Any insights?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cubes @ Nov. 28 2006,16:36)

Hello Tex, Welcome! First off, I must say that there are others much more qualified to inform you on this topic than I am, but I am very much interested in it, so here I am.  Hopefully, we can all learn something worth knowing together. I don't believe that Mary necessarily has to be from the house of David.  It would suffice that she was from Israel.  In fact, Ruth, David's Great grandmother was not Jewish at all, and speculatively, it is doubtful whether Bathsheba (King Solomon's Mother) was Jewish.  She was married to a Hittite who were being ruled over by Israel at the time, so what are the chances that a Hittite might have married a woman of Israel in those days? More importantly though, only the males in the line of David had rights to the throne, as to my knowledge, there was never a queen.  Therefore, it is doubtful that Mary could pass such rights to Jesus even if she was from the house of David.   The possibility that Jesus is an adopted heir to the Throne of David does not pan out either, as ascension to the Throne, like the Levitical priesthood, land inheritance etc are by bloodline only and not through adoption, etc.  It was explained to be that if a family from David were to adopt a child from the Levite side of Israel, that child could not ascend the Throne.  Also, that child would be considered a priest (depending on his line), regardless of whether or not he was raised by Levites.  This is because of his blood heritage. It makes sense to me that it should also apply to Christ and the Throne of David. Now, the Jeconiah issue is believed to have been resolved, as his later years were better than the first.  Thus, some believe that the curse was intended to be a warning, that IF Jeconiah were to continue in the way he was going, a, b, c and d would happen to him (the curse).  Since he appeared to have repented, the curse apparently did not take effect.  I must say that I have not yet looked into it scripturally to determine how true this is… but the good news is that the bible is available (not in heaven or under the sea…, if you know what I mean). Also, the genealogies differ in Matt and Luke (Solomon & Nathan), but I don't see that as a problem.  In fact, to me that's a double knot and a firm one making Messiah doubly, the son of David through the blessed Bathsheba.  I am speculating that it is possible for Joseph to be both the Son of Heli and Jacob, if one of them was his natural father and the other his mother's father. Blessings to you. The only question pending therefore is how he genealogically has claims to the Throne, if his conception was immaculate by the virgin Mary.

Hi cubes,
Jer 22
” 29O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

30Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.”
Did he prosper?
Did his seed prosper?
Did his seed rule any more in Judah?

In what way does that invalidate the lineage through him shown in Matthew 1?

10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;”

If Matt 1 is of God, and I believe it is, God accepts the line through these men. I do not see the curse saying that the line will not go through this man any more, but rather that they and their reign will not be in Judah and will not prosper, but perhaps others can clarify it.

[charity]

The Fathers seed Earthly to Heavenly Puzzle

The prophets are our fathers the inheritors of the promise.

We are the children the receivers of the promise.

We have earthly fathers to whom are the Sons of the prophets our fathers

Making us all recievers of the promise as children, even Equal respect of age.

Our Earthly Fathers are still children of the prophets and fathers
all are the receivers of the promised inheritance, after Christ.

Each of the prophets and Fathers have a seed Son, and also a flesh Sons
As King David had Solomon as a flesh Son
He had Jesus as a Seed Son.
Having Also that Solomon would have a seed preserved from him also, to receive eternal life, seeing Salvation, For all returned to dust without promise by Adam

Psa 37:22 For [such as be] blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and [they that be] cursed of him shall be cut off.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

I hope ears here this According to the Gospel written below “Born Again is to all men”
Some Seeds of corruptible Born again! and seed incorruptible Born again; But yet all rising to inherit the promise to our Fathers Good and Bad inheritances

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

charity

[Cubes]

Quote (Cubes @ Nov. 29 2006,22:51)

REPENTANCE: I don't know if ANY PORTION of the TALMUD was in existence before and during the life of Jesus, if any portions of it is quoted in the NT.  At any rate, we don't need the TALMUD to tell us about Jeconiah at the price they are offering.

From What I understand so far, the TALMUD (two types) came into existence AFTER the death of Christ about or directly after the period when the second temple was torn down and Jerusalem taken over by the Romans.

The surviving elders and rabbis went into hiding, some in Babylon, and elsewhere. It was decided then that given the threat to their lives, way of life, and certain diaspora, the time had come to write down all that they considered to be the ORAL TORAH. These comprised of their traditions and what the “sages” put forth as their understandings of the written Torah.

I read somewhere that the Sadducees did not believe in the oral torah whereas the Pharisees did (or was it the other way round?), and that was one of their points of contention.

This oral tradition must have been present during the earthly life of messiah but it was not written down until after his death and resurrection. It is not surprising therefore, that sentiment about him in the Talmud should continue to be negative since obviously these were the people who did not believe in him in the first place.

[Cubes]

Hi Charity.  Welcome to the forum.

I must apologise, but do you mind clarifying your above post for me again, and more specifically as relates to the OP?  

Are you saying that those children who receive the word are the “seed” sons and that those who don't are the “flesh” sons?

And why do you discount Solomon as the seed of David?  But then say that Solomon

Quote

Having Also that Solomon would have a seed preserved from him also, to receive eternal life, seeing Salvation, For all returned to dust without promise by Adam

?

Thanks.

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 30 2006,01:37)

Hi cubes, Jer 22 ” 29O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. 30Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.” Did he prosper? Did his seed prosper? Did his seed rule any more in Judah? In what way does that invalidate the lineage through him shown in Matthew 1? 10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;” If Matt 1 is of God, and I believe it is, God accepts the line through these men. I do not see the curse saying that the line will not go through this man any more, but rather that they and their reign will not be in Judah and will not prosper, but perhaps others can clarify it.

Hi Nick,

Taken as it is presented in the verses you quote, it would appear that:

Jeconiah's was not childless, as he begat Salathiel in captivity who begat Zorobabel.

Zorobabel prospered, in the sense that he came to be governor and in charge of the building of the temple… a privilege that had been the very favored Solomon's, as not even David was allowed to build the temple.

—–
But I know not of any who ascended the throne from the house of David, after Zedekiah (apart from the prophesies and promises regarding Jesus).

What'smore, Zedekiah was not anointed in the tradition of the kings but was placed there by Nebuchadnezzar.  This may have been legal, but was that God's intent?
And did the scepter, with YHWH's blessing, pass to Zedekiah?  If so, how come none of his seed also ever ruled in his stead to confirm this switch?

(not to mention that Jesus did not come from his line).

And isn't it strange that from the jewish point of view, there should have never been a son of David on the throne since the days of Jeremiah the prophet?  That's a long time.

That leads me to wonder whether or not they look to the very next king from Judah to be THEIR messiah?

[NickHassan]

Hi Cubes,
Always a pleasure talking with you.
Is God's view the same as man's?
Is the throne of David necessarily the one men see?
The Royal line leads to Jesus whether or not they all physically sat on the throne surely?

[charity]

Good Day, thankyou for asking cubes

There is a seed formed from the joining of woman’s seed and the Mans seed, earthly Son;

There is A seed preserved from a Man; which is the seed formed from the bows of mercy; also the root and offspring of bowls of mercy
Which is formed by No longer a sacrifice and offering but a broken heart before God;
This is the seed that shall rise in resurrection of life; the promise of the remnant to return
Elected and chosen by God, for their faithfulness;

Mar 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
Mar 4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
Mar 4:26 ¶ And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; Mar 4:27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

Example of the congregation not understanding the promise unto the seed returning
Mar 12:18 ¶ Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
Mar 12:19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave [his] wife [behind him], and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Mar 12:20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
Mar 12:21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
Mar 12:22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
Mar 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

And we have a resurrection of Life to take part in that the power of death shall be swallowed up; a faithful seed!

Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

charity

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2006,00:42)

Hi Cubes, Always a pleasure talking with you. Is God's view the same as man's? Is the throne of David necessarily the one men see? The Royal line leads to Jesus whether or not they all physically sat on the throne surely?

I agree, Nick.

And here are some wonderful scriptures regarding the favor of God which rested on Zorobabel/Zerubbabel: Particularly of interest to me is Haggai 2:23!

Amen!

Hag 1:14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Hag 2:4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I [am] with you, saith the LORD of hosts: …
…Hag 2:9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

Hag 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.

Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Zec 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel [thou shalt become] a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [thereof with] shoutings, [crying], Grace, grace unto it.

Zec 4:9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.

Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

[Cubes]

Quote (charity @ Dec. 01 2006,01:54)

Good Day, thankyou for asking cubes There is a seed formed from the joining of woman’s seed and the Mans seed, earthly Son; There is A seed preserved from a Man; which is the seed formed from the bows of mercy; also the root and offspring of bowls of mercy Which is formed by No longer a sacrifice and offering but a broken heart before God; This is the seed that shall rise in resurrection of life; the promise of the remnant to return Elected and chosen by God, for their faithfulness; Mar 4:24  And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. Mar 4:25  For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. Mar 4:26 ¶ And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;  Mar 4:27  And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. Example of the congregation not understanding the promise unto the seed returning Mar 12:18 ¶ Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, Mar 12:19  Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave [his] wife [behind him], and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Mar 12:20  Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. Mar 12:21  And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. Mar 12:22  And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. Mar 12:23  In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. Mar 12:24  And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? Mar 12:25  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And we have a resurrection of Life to take part in that the power of death shall be swallowed up; a faithful seed! Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. charity

Hi Charity,

Thanks for the clarification. Your approach and perspective to scripture is out of the norm that I am used to. Could be due to language, cultural, or church barriers, so it would take me some time at least to catch on and flow with you. As long as we are established in the scriptures and in the love of Christ, we should be fine.

God bless you.

[charity]

Thankyou cubes

Rejoicing for the truth always; with a great love of truth!

Always willing for correction; and will change and exchange any foundations for a higher truth when proven without doubt

Whatsoever is written in the word is for searching;

Thankyou for your willingness to understand me; that is a blessing.

charity

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cubes @ Dec. 01 2006,16:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2006,00:42) Hi Cubes, Always a pleasure talking with you. Is God's view the same as man's? Is the throne of David necessarily the one men see? The Royal line leads to Jesus whether or not they all physically sat on the throne surely? I agree, Nick. And here are some wonderful scriptures regarding the favor of God which rested on  Zorobabel/Zerubbabel:  Particularly of interest to me is Haggai 2:23! Amen! Hag 1:14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of the LORD of hosts, their God, Hag 2:4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I [am] with you, saith the LORD of hosts: … …Hag 2:9  The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts. Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zec 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel [thou shalt become] a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [thereof with] shoutings, [crying], Grace, grace unto it. Zec 4:9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Quite so cubes.
God's blessing on the line is undeniable.
Interesting name-I guess it relates to BABEL

[Author]

Posts