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Some Jesus is michael the archangel “proof texts”
Thessalonians 4:16
16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.
Galatians 4:14
14 And what was a trial to YOU in my flesh, YOU did not treat with contempt or spit at in disgust; but YOU received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus
Revelation 7:1-3
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having a seal of [the] living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.
Here we have Jesus being compared to angels which is something that NEVER happens to God, the angel in Revelation gives orders to other angels and has God's seal, nowhere in the bible does it have angels ordering other angels around.
Hi B.
First, you need a shorter name.
Secondly, if you like, there are about 5 or 6 threads on this already. Some of them are quite long. You will find many more scriptures in those threads.Quote Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say. –shimmer
Jesus is not a “trinity.” He is the Son of God. If he were a trinity, it would say.I really wish that reasoning worked with trinitarians.
B, Actually, there is more like 8 or 9 threads on this already. Anyway, if you want the scriptural reasons why some believe Michael is another name for Jesus, then here you are:
WHO IS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL?
The spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name–“Who is Like God?”
He is referred to as “the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people,” and as “the archangel.” (Dan. 10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS)
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon (Gen 49:1,2; Mat 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. There is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus. There are 5 or so points that all strongly imply it however.JESUS CALLS OUT WITH AN ARCHANGELS VOICE.
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16
“because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.”
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. (The word arch angel [chief angel or chief of the angels] is never mentioned in plural in scripture.)
It is reasonable to conclude that only an archangel would call “with an archangel’s voice.” Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority?
For example, a king is above a noble. If you have a king, someone in great power and he calls out something of importance, you wouldn’t say: ‘He called out with a nobles voice,’ unless the King was a also a noble. If the king wasn’t a noble, you would say: He called out with the voice of a king. To say he called out with a nobles voice would be to diminish him, UNLESS HE WAS BOTH A NOBLE AND A KING.
It is only logical, therefore, that the voice expressing this commanding call be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from the great authority that Christ Jesus now has as King of kings and Lord of lords. (Mt 28:18; Re 17:14)
If the designation “archangel” applied, not to Jesus Christ, but to other angels, then the reference to “an archangel’s voice” would not be appropriate. In that case it would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God.
Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.“ARCHANGEL” IS NEVER FOUND IN PLURAL IN SCRIPTURE.
Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is only found in the singular, never in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.
(Adding to this, I would like to say that some like to use the phrase: “Archangels” or speak of them in plural. The Bible never does this. Perhaps they are taking this belief from the The book of Enoch, a non-biblical book, which while it may be useful for historical purposes, also seems to contain falsehood and is not part of the inspired Word of God.)WHO TAKES ACTION AGAINST SATAN, “RULER OF THIS WORLD”?
Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16)
Is it not reasonable that Jesus would also be the one to take action against the one he described as “ruler of this world,” Satan the Devil? (John 12:31)
Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the ‘standing up of Michael’ to act with authority with “a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.” That would certainly fit the experience of the nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them.
So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.WHO ELSE IS SPOKEN OF AS HAVING ANGELS UNDER SUBJECTION?
Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: “He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”—1 Peter 3:22.
ARMY LEADER:
The Bible states that “Michael and HIS angels battled with the dragon….and its angels.” (Rev 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Rev 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels” (2 Thess 1:7; Mat 16:27; 24:31; 1 Pet 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Mat 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven–one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus–it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.JESUS IS COMMISSIONED TO DESTROY ALL THE NATIONS AT ARMAGEDDON
There are also other correspondencies establishing that Michael is actually the Son of God. Daniel, after making the first reference to Michael (Da 10:13), recorded a prophecy reaching down to “the time of the end” (Da 11:40) and then stated: “And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel’s] people.” (Da 12:1) Michael’s ‘standing up’ was to be associated with “a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.” (Da 12:1) In Daniel’s prophecy, ‘standing up’ frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king. (Da 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21) This supports the conclusion that Michael is Jesus Christ, since Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon.—Re 11:15; 16:14-16.Yes, there are other angelic creatures of high rank, such as seraphs and cherubs. (Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2) Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel.
****************
Another point:
Also, notice the second half of 1 Thess 4:16: “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.”
Now let’s look at Jesus’ words:
““Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs voice and come out, t
hose who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:25-29)A comparison of these two scriptures seems to indicate that Jesus and Michael are the same person.
It is Jehovah’s will for Jesus to resurrect the dead. (John 6:38-40) Jesus issues “a commanding call” to the dead to come forth, just as he did on occasion while on earth. (John 11:43) But now he calls, not with a man’s voice as he did then, but with all the power of “an archangel’s voice” (en pho·né arkh·ag·gélou). However, only an archangel can call with an archangel’s voice! And no one but Jesus has been given the authority to resurrect the dead. Again, at John 5 and 1 Thessalonians we see the same event–one names Michael, and one names Jesus.
It is on hearing JESUS' voice that these are resurrect, much like when Jesus “cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come on out!” and he was resurrected to life. Similarly, John 5:25-29 says they will “hear his [Jesus’] voice and come out.”
Commenting on one aspect of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul wrote:
“because the Lord [JESUS] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God's trumpet, AND THOSE WHO ARE DEAD IN UNION WITH CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) (NWT)The dead are raised. They hear a voice. Who's voice? John 5:25-29 answers saying they “will HEAR HIS [JESUS'] VOICE AND COME OUT….” It says “THE DEAD WILL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD and . . . LIVE.
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?
Continuing……
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?There are other such similarities: Who takes action against the ruler of the world: Jesus, or the archangel? (Rev 12:7; 19: 11-14)
Or, who has the angels under subjection: the archangel or Jesus? (Rev 12:7; 19:19, etc, etc.) Or are they the same one?The question comes down to this:
If I make these statements:
1. Jimmy is the one who stole my suitcase.
2. The architect stole my suitcase.Am I allowed to conclude that Jimmy is an architect? Nowhere does it explicitely say that Jimmy is an architect?.
3. Jimmy is in charge of the builders.
4. An architect is in charge of the builders.5. Jimmy is the one who is going to see the building constructed.
6. The architect is in charge of the building.Nowhere are we told that Jimmy is the architect. But if we believe they are not the same one, then this means there are two that have the exact same role. And which is more likely? That is the question.
david
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,16:15) Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say.
Hi Shimmer,Here is PROOF that Jesus is “NOT” Michael the Archangel…
“For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou(יהוה) art mindful of him?
or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou(יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) hast put all things in subjection under (יהשוע YÄ-shü-ă)his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.” (Heb.2:5-8)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,16:15) Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say.
Hi Shimmer,The HolySpirit is “The Word” of God! (Click Here / Click Here)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Dec. 20 2010,17:18) Continuing……
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?There are other such similarities: Who takes action against the ruler of the world: Jesus, or the archangel? (Rev 12:7; 19: 11-14)
Or, who has the angels under subjection: the archangel or Jesus? (Rev 12:7; 19:19, etc, etc.) Or are they the same one?The question comes down to this:
If I make these statements:
1. Jimmy is the one who stole my suitcase.
2. The architect stole my suitcase.Am I allowed to conclude that Jimmy is an architect? Nowhere does it explicitely say that Jimmy is an architect?.
3. Jimmy is in charge of the builders.
4. An architect is in charge of the builders.5. Jimmy is the one who is going to see the building constructed.
6. The architect is in charge of the building.Nowhere are we told that Jimmy is the architect. But if we believe they are not the same one, then this means there are two that have the exact same role. And which is more likely? That is the question.
david
Hi David,How is it you 'fail' to use the same type of logic here…
Lev.11:45 For I JEHOVAH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall there
fore be holy, for I Holy.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine
own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgdfdf
Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2010,00:16) B, Actually, there is more like 8 or 9 threads on this already. Anyway, if you want the scriptural reasons why some believe Michael is another name for Jesus, then here you are: WHO IS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL?
The spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name–“Who is Like God?”
He is referred to as “the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel’s] people,” and as “the archangel.” (Dan. 10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS)
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon (Gen 49:1,2; Mat 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. There is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus. There are 5 or so points that all strongly imply it however.JESUS CALLS OUT WITH AN ARCHANGELS VOICE.
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16
“because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.”
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. (The word arch angel [chief angel or chief of the angels] is never mentioned in plural in scripture.)
It is reasonable to conclude that only an archangel would call “with an archangel’s voice.” Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority?
For example, a king is above a noble. If you have a king, someone in great power and he calls out something of importance, you wouldn’t say: ‘He called out with a nobles voice,’ unless the King was a also a noble. If the king wasn’t a noble, you would say: He called out with the voice of a king. To say he called out with a nobles voice would be to diminish him, UNLESS HE WAS BOTH A NOBLE AND A KING.
It is only logical, therefore, that the voice expressing this commanding call be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from the great authority that Christ Jesus now has as King of kings and Lord of lords. (Mt 28:18; Re 17:14)
If the designation “archangel” applied, not to Jesus Christ, but to other angels, then the reference to “an archangel’s voice” would not be appropriate. In that case it would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God.
Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.“ARCHANGEL” IS NEVER FOUND IN PLURAL IN SCRIPTURE.
Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is only found in the singular, never in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.
(Adding to this, I would like to say that some like to use the phrase: “Archangels” or speak of them in plural. The Bible never does this. Perhaps they are taking this belief from the The book of Enoch, a non-biblical book, which while it may be useful for historical purposes, also seems to contain falsehood and is not part of the inspired Word of God.)WHO TAKES ACTION AGAINST SATAN, “RULER OF THIS WORLD”?
Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16)
Is it not reasonable that Jesus would also be the one to take action against the one he described as “ruler of this world,” Satan the Devil? (John 12:31)
Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the ‘standing up of Michael’ to act with authority with “a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.” That would certainly fit the experience of the nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them.
So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.WHO ELSE IS SPOKEN OF AS HAVING ANGELS UNDER SUBJECTION?
Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: “He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”—1 Peter 3:22.
ARMY LEADER:
The Bible states that “Michael and HIS angels battled with the dragon….and its angels.” (Rev 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Rev 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels” (2 Thess 1:7; Mat 16:27; 24:31; 1 Pet 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Mat 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven–one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus–it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.JESUS IS COMMISSIONED TO DESTROY ALL THE NATIONS AT ARMAGEDDON
There are also other correspondencies establishing that Michael is actually the Son of God. Daniel, after making the first reference to Michael (Da 10:13), recorded a prophecy reaching down to “the time of the end” (Da 11:40) and then stated: “And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel’s] people.” (Da 12:1) Michael’s ‘standing up’ was to be associated with “a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.” (Da 12:1) In Daniel’s prophecy, ‘standing up’ frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king. (Da 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21) This supports the conclusion that Michael is Jesus Christ, since Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon.—Re 11:15; 16:14-16.Yes, there are other angelic creatures of high rank, such as seraphs and cherubs. (Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2) Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel.
****************
Another point:
Also, notice the second half of 1 Thess 4:16: “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.”
Now let’s look at Jesus’ words:
““Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son
to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:25-29)A comparison of these two scriptures seems to indicate that Jesus and Michael are the same person.
It is Jehovah’s will for Jesus to resurrect the dead. (John 6:38-40) Jesus issues “a commanding call” to the dead to come forth, just as he did on occasion while on earth. (John 11:43) But now he calls, not with a man’s voice as he did then, but with all the power of “an archangel’s voice” (en pho·né arkh·ag·gélou). However, only an archangel can call with an archangel’s voice! And no one but Jesus has been given the authority to resurrect the dead. Again, at John 5 and 1 Thessalonians we see the same event–one names Michael, and one names Jesus.
It is on hearing JESUS' voice that these are resurrect, much like when Jesus “cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come on out!” and he was resurrected to life. Similarly, John 5:25-29 says they will “hear his [Jesus’] voice and come out.”
Commenting on one aspect of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul wrote:
“because the Lord [JESUS] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God's trumpet, AND THOSE WHO ARE DEAD IN UNION WITH CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) (NWT)The dead are raised. They hear a voice. Who's voice? John 5:25-29 answers saying they “will HEAR HIS [JESUS'] VOICE AND COME OUT….” It says “THE DEAD WILL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD and . . . LIVE.
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?
davidi would believe you ,because that would make Michael the only archangel,and being prince make sence.
but ;Da 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me
IT SAYS ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES.;;
and we know that there is no greather name in the heaven than Christ,and that he is the only begotten son of God,
for those reasons I would disagree with you.
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,15:24) Hi between Christendom and JWs, What about Rev.12:7-8?
Following your logic satan isn't an angel in that passage either, as for one of the chief princes thing, Satan is alluded to be te prince of persia in Daniel, one angel couldn't defeat the “prince of persia” and angels are poweful enough to defeat humans so this couldn't be a normal adversary.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,17:56) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,16:15) Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say.
Hi Shimmer,Here is PROOF that Jesus is “NOT” Michael the Archangel…
“For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou(יהוה) art mindful of him?
or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou(יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) hast put all things in subjection under (יהשוע YÄ-shü-ă)his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.” (Heb.2:5-8)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Bump for BetweenQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,17:56) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,16:15) Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say.
Hi Shimmer,Here is PROOF that Jesus is “NOT” Michael the Archangel…
“For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou(יהוה) art mindful of him?
or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou(יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) hast put all things in subjection under (יהשוע YÄ-shü-ă)his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.” (Heb.2:5-8)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Ed,He being over the angels does not mean he can not be an angel any more than Obama being over americans does not mean Obama is not an American.
This proof is fallacious.
I can give you a hundred more examples if you like. Or, I could possibly find you the actual name of the fallacy.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,21:38) Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2010,17:18) Continuing……
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?There are other such similarities: Who takes action against the ruler of the world: Jesus, or the archangel? (Rev 12:7; 19: 11-14)
Or, who has the angels under subjection: the archangel or Jesus? (Rev 12:7; 19:19, etc, etc.) Or are they the same one?The question comes down to this:
If I make these statements:
1. Jimmy is the one who stole my suitcase.
2. The architect stole my suitcase.Am I allowed to conclude that Jimmy is an architect? Nowhere does it explicitely say that Jimmy is an architect?.
3. Jimmy is in charge of the builders.
4. An architect is in charge of the builders.5. Jimmy is the one who is going to see the building constructed.
6. The architect is in charge of the building.Nowhere are we told that Jimmy is the architect. But if we believe they are not the same one, then this means there are two that have the exact same role. And which is more likely? That is the question.
david
Hi David,How is it you 'fail' to use the same type of logic here…
Lev.11:45 For I JEHOVAH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall there
fore be holy, for I Holy.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine
own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
The difference Ed, is that I can find hundreds or thousands of scriptures that point away from the trinity belief.The anti trinitarian scriptures vastly outnumber the pro in my view.
As for Michael/Jesus, that is not the case.
That is the difference.
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,17:56) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,16:15) Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. He is the Word of God. If he was Michael it would say.
Hi Shimmer,Here is PROOF that Jesus is “NOT” Michael the Archangel…
“For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou(יהוה) art mindful of him?
or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels;
thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou(יהוה YÄ-hä-vā) hast put all things in subjection under (יהשוע YÄ-shü-ă)his feet.
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.” (Heb.2:5-8)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Ed,He being over the angels does not mean he can not be an angel any more than Obama being over americans does not mean Obama is not an American.
This proof is fallacious.
I can give you a hundred more examples if you like. Or, I could possibly find you the actual name of the fallacy.
Hi David,“Two” examples using Scripture will suffice; do you have any? (Matt.18:16)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote david i would believe you ,because that would make Michael the only archangel,and being prince make sence.
but ;Da 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me
IT SAYS ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES.;;
and we know that there is no greather name in the heaven than Christ,and that he is the only begotten son of God,
for those reasons I would disagree with you.
Pierre
I know pierre. That is certainly evidence that suggests pointing away from the Michael/Jesus belief. In my view, there are a couple reasons against, but stronger reasons for. This is not one of my primary beliefs and it is not something that we discuss a lot. It is something others always bring up.
Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:12) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,21:38) Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2010,17:18) Continuing……
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?There are other such similarities: Who takes action against the ruler of the world: Jesus, or the archangel? (Rev 12:7; 19: 11-14)
Or, who has the angels under subjection: the archangel or Jesus? (Rev 12:7; 19:19, etc, etc.) Or are they the same one?The question comes down to this:
If I make these statements:
1. Jimmy is the one who stole my suitcase.
2. The architect stole my suitcase.Am I allowed to conclude that Jimmy is an architect? Nowhere does it explicitely say that Jimmy is an architect?.
3. Jimmy is in charge of the builders.
4. An architect is in charge of the builders.5. Jimmy is the one who is going to see the building constructed.
6. The architect is in charge of the building.Nowhere are we told that Jimmy is the architect. But if we believe they are not the same one, then this means there are two that have the exact same role. And which is more likely? That is the question.
david
Hi David,How is it you 'fail' to use the same type of logic here…
Lev.11:45 For I JEHOVAH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall there
fore be holy, for I Holy.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine
own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
The difference Ed, is that I can find hundreds or thousands of scriptures that point away from the trinity belief.The anti trinitarian scriptures vastly outnumber the pro in my view.
As for Michael/Jesus, that is not the case.
That is the difference.
Hi David,Why are you changing the question? Who said anything about 'a trinity'?
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Hi David, “Two” examples using Scripture will suffice; do you have any? (Matt.18:16)
There is no scipture that says obama is an american, but logically and legally, he must be.
Some things I believe just because they are logical.Quote He being over the angels does not mean he can not be an angel any more than Obama being over americans does not mean Obama is not an American. You do get this, right?
Or do you really not?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 23 2010,16:17) Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,16:12) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2010,21:38) Quote (david @ Dec. 20 2010,17:18) Continuing……
So who's voice is it that raises the dead? Is it Jesus' voice or an archangel's voice? Or are they the same?There are other such similarities: Who takes action against the ruler of the world: Jesus, or the archangel? (Rev 12:7; 19: 11-14)
Or, who has the angels under subjection: the archangel or Jesus? (Rev 12:7; 19:19, etc, etc.) Or are they the same one?The question comes down to this:
If I make these statements:
1. Jimmy is the one who stole my suitcase.
2. The architect stole my suitcase.Am I allowed to conclude that Jimmy is an architect? Nowhere does it explicitely say that Jimmy is an architect?.
3. Jimmy is in charge of the builders.
4. An architect is in charge of the builders.5. Jimmy is the one who is going to see the building constructed.
6. The architect is in charge of the building.Nowhere are we told that Jimmy is the architect. But if we believe they are not the same one, then this means there are two that have the exact same role. And which is more likely? That is the question.
david
Hi David,How is it you 'fail' to use the same type of logic here…
Lev.11:45 For I JEHOVAH that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall there
fore be holy, for I Holy.
John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled
thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine
own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
The difference Ed, is that I can find hundreds or thousands of scriptures that point away from the trinity belief.The anti trinitarian scriptures vastly outnumber the pro in my view.
As for Michael/Jesus, that is not the case.
That is the difference.
Hi David,Why are you changing the question? Who said anything about 'a trinity'?
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, 3/4 of the time I don't have a clue what you are talking about.You often quote scriptures but dont explain.
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