Scriptures only

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 07 2012,06:01)

Georg,
Thank you for the scripture, hope you and Irene are doing well.

I believe the scripture could go either way, which is why I'm looking into it.

Isaiah 46:10 “In the beginning, I told you what would happen in the end. A long time ago, I told you things that have not happened yet. When I plan something, it happens. I do whatever I want to do.

I believe this verse tends to indicate that God laid out a general plan for the ages to come, confident in His ability to see it come to pass. Perhaps that is why when God is revealing into the far distant future its with symbols.

My opinion – Wm

Thank you, we are doing fine; except, at the moment we are both wrestling with our annually cold.

Paul too spoke of the foreknowledge of God.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God knew his saints before they were born.

Jer 1:4 ¶ Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Georg

January 8, 2012 at 3:27 am#271231

Participant

Georg,
I pray that God's grace may abound and that your colds may pass quickly.

The best response I can answer with is how I see these verses interpreted

Rom 8 (paraphrased) We know that in everything God works for the good of those who love him. These are the people God chose, because that was his plan. He originally determined in His plan for the ages, that despite knowing what man would be like, He also knew that there would be those who would love and fear Him. Therefore He determined He would make them like His Son so that Jesus would be the firstborn of many brothers and sisters, He put them in right standing, and shared with them the glory that He was giving to His Son.

Eph 1 (paraphrased) In Christ we were chosen to be God’s people. God had already planned for us (those who loved and feared him) to be his people, because that is what he wanted. And he is the one who makes everything agree with what he decides and wants.

Jer 1 (paraphrased) Before I made you in your mothers womb I already knew what I wanted for you and before you were born I chose you to be a prophet to the nations.

My opinion – Wm

January 8, 2012 at 11:56 am#271280

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 08 2012,13:27)

Georg,
I pray that God's grace may abound and that your colds may pass quickly.

The best response I can answer with is how I see these verses interpreted

Jer 1 (paraphrased) Before I made you in your mothers womb I already knew what I wanted for you and before you were born I chose you to be a prophet to the nations.

My opinion – Wm

Can't argue with that; thank you for the well wishes.

Georg

January 9, 2012 at 11:51 am#271442

ftk

Participant

Georg: May any health problems you are having, be laid in the hands of Jesus Christ for total healing of your body this day. I agree with the health and healing of your body through Jesus Christ! We don't have to see eye to eye in the scriptures to pray Gods healing power for one another. God bless you, TK

January 9, 2012 at 12:25 pm#271448

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Jan. 09 2012,21:51)

Thank you, agreed.

Georg

January 12, 2012 at 3:13 am#271893

Marlin1

Participant

SeekingTruth,

How about this one.

Quote

ROMANS 9:13 † As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God new how these would be, before they were born.

Quote

Psa 147:5 — Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

How did Daniel know what would happen thousands of years in the future?

Quote

DEUT 18:22 † When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

God knows everything. And it has been said that our thoughts speak louder then our words in heaven, I believe it.

God Bless
Marlin

January 14, 2012 at 6:01 am#272229

Participant

Marlin1,
Romans 9:10-15 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but [c]because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”

To me this verse says God had purposed (made a choice) that he would favor the younger son instead of the older one. At least to me this says nothing that God knew their character ahead of time (other than what He would know from infinite wisdom). Otherwise why would Paul defend God picking one over the other in verse 14 if God had only foresaw it and not initiated it

Quote

Psa 147:5 — Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

I certainly agree that God's understanding is infinite.

Quote

How did Daniel know what would happen thousands of years in the future?

I believe that God gives the prophecies to Daniel and the other prophets and then makes them come to pass in an arena where satan the “god of the age” has all the advantages. This shows all of heaven the power and wisdom of God, otherwise if He saw it coming… well like they say hindsight is 20/20 where is the glory in that. Far from making God less I believe if He does not (or least has chosen not to) know the future yet makes His prophecies come to pass than that exalts Him, demonstrating to heaven and earth how He is far more than satan could ever be.

Quote

God knows everything. And it has been said that our thoughts speak louder then our words in heaven, I believe it.

I agree that God knows our thoughts.

I know this is a difficult concept to embrace, it flies in the face of everything I was taught was fundamental about God and I'm still not sure myself, but so far the scriptures thrown at me do not seem to prove otherwise. So if anything I'm becoming more convinced, although I'm still open to re-evaluating my new position.

Thank you for the scriptures and the dialog – Wm

January 14, 2012 at 12:55 pm#272251

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2012,00:59)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2012,21:28)

Wakeup,
What are your thoughts on God knowing the future. My current understanding is that God does not know with absolute certainty the details of the future but can with certainty proclaim an outcome based on His power, and His wisdom to move the pieces on the board (so to speak) to arrive at His desired conclusion.

Sounds good but is it true? Do you know of any scripture(s) that should be considered that I may have missed?

Thanks,
Wm

Hi Seekingtruth

Here are some scriptures for you to read.

ISAIAH 46:10,11
ISAIAH 48:5

bless you Seekingtruth
Wakeup

Don't you know how to “copy” and “paste”?

God does not create evil, but he knows ahead of time who will turn evil.

Jesus knew from before the creation of the world, before man was created, that he would have to die for his creation.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb “”slain from the foundation of the world.””

God allows evil, because he wants his creation to love him; he does not force any one to love him.
By allowing angels, as well as humans to rebel against him, he accomplishes two things;
one; he will sift out the good from the bad;
two; he teaches the rest the reward for obedience.

God of course “IS” in control of his plan, and he does intervene on occasion; by prophesying the future he shows us that he is God, when we see these prophesies being fulfilled.

Many prophesies have been fulfilled, but they were written in symbols and metaphors, that man was not aware of it when they occurred.

Georg

January 20, 2012 at 7:46 am#273400

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 06 2012,23:34)

wakeup,
That verse states that He is the same (as in unchanging character) not that He knows the details of the future.

What I'm looking for is scripture like Genesis 22:12 “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son” which to me says God did not know ahead of time how Abraham would react.

I know that people who believe God knows all the details of the future say that God was actually showing Abraham what he would do, but that is not what it says.

Also if we “know” that God has all the details of the future, wouldn't satan have “known” that also. Then why would he want to test Job? I mean if God agreed to the test shouldn't satan of thought well never mind if God's agreeing and He knows the future then the test will fail.

As I've said, I believed that God knew all details of the future for decades, I have only recently re-evaluated this position and am still trying to make sure I haven't gone off the path and as you stated at the beginning of this thread we need to stick with scripture.

Thanks – Wm

Seekingtruth.

If God knows the outcome;is it then not obvious that he knows the future?

wakeup.

January 20, 2012 at 6:54 pm#273454

Participant

Wakeup,
If I determine to build a house, there are many obstacles. But if I'm confident in my ability to overcome those obstacles, despite not having the ability to see the future, I may state to others “there will be a house here by this time next year”.

I believe God is confident that He can make all He states come to pass.

My opinion – Wm

January 21, 2012 at 5:37 am#273608

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 21 2012,04:54)

I believe God is confident that He can make all He states come to pass.

My opinion – Wm

Hi seekingtruth.

With God there can not be any obstacles,for there is none greater, that can put any opstacles.
When God swears, he swears upon is own name.
The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the furture.

wakeup.

January 21, 2012 at 2:22 pm#273654

Participant

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

Obviously God does have obstacles, such that when His beloved Son asked Him to remove the cup from Him, He had to allow it to be so, as part of His great plan to redeem mankind (something I'm sure that satan believed to be impossible).

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

January 21, 2012 at 4:48 pm#273675

terraricca

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,07:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

seekgtrt

Quote

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

this is very true in deed,well said.

Pierre

January 22, 2012 at 12:58 am#273768

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,00:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

Hi seekingtruth.

Who or what is he that can throw any obstacles to the one that is in total control,even in control of the obstsacles itself?
If there are any obstacles,thats because God puts it there.

wakeup.

January 22, 2012 at 3:26 am#273792

Devolution

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,10:58)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,00:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

Hi seekingtruth.

Who or what is he that can throw any obstacles to the one that is in total control,even in control of the obstsacles itself?
If there are any obstacles,thats because God puts it there.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,
Agreed, everything, “obstacles” included, are by the doing of God Himself for to fulfill His plans.
Nothing that is anything can be done in all existence unless God has ordained it…
If God does not cause/control everything…even seeming “obstacles”…which are not obstacles, but are actually planned/catered events/circumstances in every single individuals life on this planet…
then nothing, nothing is assured, and faith is left dangling worthlessly.
Everything is framed by the word of God…everything that is anything…good and evil.
He is in total control of it all, and has created it all, good and evil, for His purposes, and has already declared the end at the beginning.

God bless.

January 22, 2012 at 3:42 am#273793

Participant

Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 22 2012,13:26)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,10:58)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,00:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

Hi seekingtruth.

Who or what is he that can throw any obstacles to the one that is in total control,even in control of the obstsacles itself?
If there are any obstacles,thats because God puts it there.

wakeup.

God bless.

Hi Devo.

thank you,you seem to have the picture.

regards.

wakeup.

February 22, 2012 at 3:26 pm#280031

Participant

Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 22 2012,10:26)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,10:58)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,00:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

Hi seekingtruth.

Who or what is he that can throw any obstacles to the one that is in total control,even in control of the obstsacles itself?
If there are any obstacles,thats because God puts it there.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,
Agreed, everything, “obstacles” included, are by the doing of God Himself for to fulfill His plans.

So are you saying that there is no real struggle in all of creation, its all a big show being put on for us?

Quote

Nothing that is anything can be done in all existence unless God has ordained it…
If God does not cause/control everything…even seeming “obstacles”…which are not obstacles, but are actually planned/catered events/circumstances in every single individuals life on this planet…

Sounds like we're part of the show (too much like a puppet show for my understanding from scriptures)

Quote

then nothing, nothing is assured, and faith is left dangling worthlessly.

I have faith that our God is able

Quote

Everything is framed by the word of God…everything that is anything…good and evil.
He is in total control of it all, and has created it all, good and evil, for His purposes, and has already declared the end at the beginning.

God bless.

I agree that He has declared the end from the beginning and He does have the where-with-all to see it accomplished, however I do not believe that God is the author of evil in any fashion (evil being the lack of God, just as darkness is a lack of light, and cold a lack of heat)

My opinion – Wm

February 25, 2012 at 8:28 am#280495

Participant

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2012,01:26)

Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 22 2012,10:26)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2012,10:58)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2012,00:22)

wakeup,
I can agree with your statement “The future is in his contol.Therefore he knows the future” but that is different from He foresaw the future.

He has obstacles, but He is greater then any obstacle that can be thrown at Him.

Hi seekingtruth.

Who or what is he that can throw any obstacles to the one that is in total control,even in control of the obstsacles itself?
If there are any obstacles,thats because God puts it there.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,
Agreed, everything, “obstacles” included, are by the doing of God Himself for to fulfill His plans.

So are you saying that there is no real struggle in all of creation, its all a big show being put on for us?

Quote

Sounds like we're part of the show (too much like a puppet show for my understanding from scriptures)

Quote

then nothing, nothing is assured, and faith is left dangling worthlessly.

I have faith that our God is able

Quote

God bless.

My opinion – Wm

Hi seekingtruth.

Iaiah14:27. For the Lord of host hath PURPOSED,and who shall DISANNUL it? and his hand is STRETCHED out, and who shall turn it back?

ITS NOT A BIG SHOW,BUT HIS PLAN.

wakeup.

April 14, 2014 at 2:47 am#377878

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WU,
You say
'God created Lucifer also for his purpose; he created him with full of wisdom; But God knew that this one cherub is going to be a rebeller; BUT THAT WAS GODS PLAN,THERE WAS NO EVIL IN HEAVEN, BUT GOD WANTS THE ANGELS TO KNOW EVIL ALSO.IF ONE DOES NOT KNOW EVIL THAN HOW CAN ONE KNOW GOOD? AND EVIL CAN NOT BE MADE MANIFEST IN HEAVEN,CAUSE THEY ARE ALL SPIRIT CREATURES,STRONG AND THEY CAN SEE LUCIFER,SO GOD CREATED FLESH FOR LUCIFER TO DOMINATE, AND TO BRING OUT THAT EVIL THAT IS IN HIS HEART ; AND EVIL WAS BORN IN THE GARDEN.Since then, satan has taken over mankind and led them to evil continuously. But God also has send man to bring them back to the right path.Then later his own Son.Evil must reach to the top,then it will be destroyed forever.'

One third of the angels will be thrown out of heaven

April 21, 2014 at 8:42 am#378749