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Hi 92,
Repentant
Obedient
FaithActs 2
” 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.”
Dear Kenrch and 942767,
You brothers are right on track. It is by the grace we are saved and that comes by faith.
As for faith without works, that is a true statement, but you must first have faith. And when it says faith without works is dead, you must ask yourself, if you do not have the love of Christ in your heart, is not faith dead? Is not works dead?
Charity, my dear brothers is love. If all things are done out of the love of Christ, where there is faith, it will not fail, where there is works, they will last forever.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,20:02) Hi SS,
Do you believe all men appear before the white throne judgement?
Do you agree there are two resurrections?So what do you make of Jn 5?
“24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
And
1Jn 3.14
“14We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death”
Hi Nick,I am only looking at Justification of the first resurrection
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Correct they are saved, but once saved doesn’t mean always saved.
Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 BUT HE THAT RECEIVED THE SEED INTO STONY PLACES, THE SAME IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD, AND ANON WITH JOY RECEIVETH IT;He hears and receives with joy he has fruits including joy and faith….
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD; and the care of this world, and the DECEITFULNESS OF RICHES, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
He Loves himself more than others and even though he hears and has faith he become unfruitful with love because he is deceitful in riches.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, AND BRINGETH FORTH, SOME AN HUNDREDFOLD, SOME SIXTY, SOME THIRTY.
John 5 teaches we can’t escape the judgment seat of the Lord.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 MARVEL NOT AT THIS: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, unto the RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.Justification is not by faith only, because not every one who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Here is another scripture to add to the dozens of others that show it’s not by faith alone.
1Ti 2:15 Yet she shall be saved through child bearing; if she continue in faith AND LOVE and sanctification with sobriety.
Yet she needs to continue in faith and LOVE to be saved.
Faith is not Love. LOVE IS GREATER THAN FAITH and Love comes from the grace of hope.
Blessings in name of Jesus
Hi SS,
I disagree in part
Looking at Jn 5 in context
” 20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.”
So the Son quickens some and not all
” 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. “
This is the first resurrection.
Those that hear shall live.
Those who have the Spirit will be raised by that Spirit.
They hear.
They face the tribunal of Christ and are rewarded if they have produced investment on the grace given them.26″For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,”
This is 1000 years later and the second resurrection.
It involves all who remain this the grave having not been raised with Christ.” 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
This is the white throne or sheep and goat judgement and is according to certain works-those done to the brothers of Christ, the sons of God-even those who have given them a cup of water because they belong to him will not lose their reward.
That is how I see it.
[cf Rev 20, Matt 25, 2Cor 5.10]Quote Faith is not Love. LOVE IS GREATER THAN FAITH and Love comes from the grace of hope. Dear Scripture Seeker,
If a man does not first have faith, how will he be saved. When he is saved, it is at that moment the love of Christ, the love of God comes into his heart. It is this love that then is the center of our faith. If we lose this love, what good then is faith or what good then is works.
It is God's love that calls us to him and it is by faith we are saved. Once we have tasted this wonderful love, this love that supercedes any rational comprehension as to earthly love, for it is not of this world, how can a man then turn his back on so great a love. Yet, many do.
Hi SS,
You say
“Justification is not by faith only, because not every one who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven.Here is another scripture to add to the dozens of others that show it’s not by faith alone.
1Ti 2:15 Yet she shall be saved through child bearing; if she continue in faith AND LOVE and sanctification with sobriety.
Yet she needs to continue in faith and LOVE to be saved.
Faith is not Love. LOVE IS GREATER THAN FAITH and Love comes from the grace of hope.”
I agree salvation is not by faith alone.
Paul's letter was to the saved Titus, and the ways of working out of their salvation for women includes through chidlbearing.Salvation is through hearing the gospel and obeying it.
That way is in the Son of God.Jn 3
“14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
1Jn 5
” 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. “
We MUST Be born again.
Vain philosophical religion is useless.
SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,07:31) SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Hi KenrchWorks of grace are NEVER rejected…….. but Faith alone is.
I understand that you are not talking about faith that comes from the flesh, but do you understand that I am not talking Love that comes from the flesh.
Please take the time to see the difference.1: The Law
Rejects the Law
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Enforces the law
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.And confirms the law he teaches is Love
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)2: Works
Rejects works
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Enforces works
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.And confirms leading up to these scriptures we should not despise the fruits of the spirit that come from grace. There is NO LAW against the fruits.
You CANT say works of Love don’t count but *WORKS* of faith do….Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; FOR THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
It’s the same thing to judge against the works of Love as judging against the works of Faith. BOTH ARE FRUITS, BOTH fruits come from the grace of ***HOPE***.
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
The above are fruits of the spirit WE SHOULD not despise the graces given by Jesus.
These fruits are the works he enforces. Study Romans 2 above and below.Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.
Please understand that Paul only ever rejects works outside of grace.
I believe you can give me many scriptures that so we are Justified by Faith.
But the word is truth and let every man be a liar because there are ALSO many examples that show we are justified by OTHER fruits.Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY [LOVE], I AM NOTHING.Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.
All faith includes all forms of faith
G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.did these following people have faith? YES!
are they saved? NO!Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.You can’t even say Jesus is Lord without faith but yet they call Jesus lord and in his name do many wonderful works of faith but ***MANY*** will not be saved because faith only or faith alone without the greatest faith of the spirit saves no one. Even the demons believe.
Love and Blessings in the name of Jesus
Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 05 2006,10:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,07:31) SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Hi KenrchWorks of grace are NEVER rejected…….. but Faith alone is.
I understand that you are not talking about faith that comes from the flesh, but do you understand that I am not talking Love that comes from the flesh.
Please take the time to see the difference.1: The Law
Rejects the Law
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Enforces the law
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.And confirms the law he teaches is Love
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)2: Works
Rejects works
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Enforces works
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.And confirms leading up to these scriptures we should not despise the fruits of the spirit that come from grace. There is NO LAW against the fruits.
You CANT say works of Love don’t count but *WORKS* of faith do….Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; FOR THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
It’s the same thing to judge against the works of Love as judging against the works of Faith. BOTH ARE FRUITS, BOTH fruits come from the grace of ***HOPE***.
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
The above are fruits of the spirit WE SHOULD not despise the graces given by Jesus.
These fruits are the works he enforces. Study Romans 2 above and below.Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.
Please understand that Paul only ever rejects works outside of grace.
I believe you can give me many scriptures that so we are Justified by Faith.
But the word is truth and let every man be a liar because there are ALSO many examples that show we are justified by OTHER fruits.Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY [LOVE], I AM NOTHING.Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.
All faith includes all forms of faith
G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.did these following people have faith? YES!
are they saved? NO!Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.You can’t even say Jesus is Lord without faith but yet they call Jesus lord and in his name do many wonderful works of faith but ***MANY*** will not be saved because faith only or faith alone without the greatest faith of the spirit saves no one. Even the demons believe.
Love and Blessings in the name of Jesus
SS,
You know what I'm not even going to try to make you see. If you believe that God only loves you if you love him first then believe it.If you believe that if you have faith but are not able to show the love that follows that your god will burn you go ahead.
Know this if you wish to believe this way. Only those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the children of God. So if you are not led by the Spirit of God then you will burn. Wheather you have faith or love makes no difference the way you are thinking. Because scripture also says if you are not led by the spirit then you are not a child of God. If not a child of God then you will burn.
*Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.*
I'm not in competition with anyone on this forum. It is not up to me for you to believe but up to you.
But know this that if the Father does not draw you to Jesus then you have no faith.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. (Rom. 8:28-30)So even before faith the Father HAS to draw you. I believe that's it in a nut shell their are those who have a zeal for God but because they were not drawn by God they don't know God. They have only what they can have a fleshly knowledge of the word. (Rom. 10:1-3)
You do whatever it is you are ca
lled to do one way or another you will.Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,20:53) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 05 2006,10:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,07:31) SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Hi KenrchWorks of grace are NEVER rejected…….. but Faith alone is.
I understand that you are not talking about faith that comes from the flesh, but do you understand that I am not talking Love that comes from the flesh.
Please take the time to see the difference.1: The Law
Rejects the Law
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Enforces the law
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.And confirms the law he teaches is Love
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)2: Works
Rejects works
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Enforces works
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.And confirms leading up to these scriptures we should not despise the fruits of the spirit that come from grace. There is NO LAW against the fruits.
You CANT say works of Love don’t count but *WORKS* of faith do….Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; FOR THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
It’s the same thing to judge against the works of Love as judging against the works of Faith. BOTH ARE FRUITS, BOTH fruits come from the grace of ***HOPE***.
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
The above are fruits of the spirit WE SHOULD not despise the graces given by Jesus.
These fruits are the works he enforces. Study Romans 2 above and below.Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.
Please understand that Paul only ever rejects works outside of grace.
I believe you can give me many scriptures that so we are Justified by Faith.
But the word is truth and let every man be a liar because there are ALSO many examples that show we are justified by OTHER fruits.Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY [LOVE], I AM NOTHING.Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.
All faith includes all forms of faith
G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.did these following people have faith? YES!
are they saved? NO!Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.You can’t even say Jesus is Lord without faith but yet they call Jesus lord and in his name do many wonderful works of faith but ***MANY*** will not be saved because faith only or faith alone without the greatest faith of the spirit saves no one. Even the demons believe.
Love and Blessings in the name of Jesus
SS,
You know what I'm not even going to try to make you see. If you believe that God only loves you if you love him first then believe it.If you believe that if you have faith but are not able to show the love that follows that your god will burn you go ahead.
Know this if you wish to believe this way. Only those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the children of God. So if you are not led by the Spirit of God then you will burn. Wheather you have faith or love makes no difference the way you are thinking. Because scripture also says if you are not led by the spirit then you are not a child of God. If not a child of God then you will burn.
*Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.*
I'm not in competition with anyone on this forum. It is not up to me for you to believe but up to you.
But know this that if the Father does not draw you to Jesus then you have no faith.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. (Rom. 8:28-30)So even before faith the Father HAS to draw you. I believe that's it in a nut shell their are those who have a
zeal for God but because they were not drawn by God they don't know God. They have only what they can have a fleshly knowledge of the word. (Rom. 10:1-3)You do whatever it is you are called to do one way or another you will.
We differ in doctrine, but I agree with SS in this.Without love, one has not the Spirit of God for God is love. It's the cardinal sign by which we may be recognized as genuine children of God and disciples of Christ. The watermark, so to speak.
Moreover, there is no faith without works.
Abraham BELIEVED and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. That means he DID something. He was moved to do something and he RESPONDED accordingly. If faith did not require any form of action, then every one is automatically saved! Hello. And there should have been no need for the patriachs from Egypt, saving Joshua and Caleb, to perish in the wilderness.
Scripture Seeker is right, brothers and sisters.
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,20:53) So even before faith the Father HAS to draw you. …
No dispute.The bible also teaches us that God so loved the WORLD that he gave to WHOSOEVER….
And that he gave to everyone, a measure of faith… thus, the call has gone out to the entire world evidenced by the things God has made so that no one has an excuse. In other words, the Father has reached out to everyone to draw them and would not reject whoever comes to him through Christ in earnest.
But we must Act/respond and that is faith. And without that response, there is no faith, which is why faith without (works) response is dead.
The days of Noah are a prime example of the situation regarding grace and faith. Knowing our God, we must believe that he sent out a warning (grace) for repentence to all beforehand, as evidenced by the following verse.
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
What happened was that with the exception of Noah and his family, everyone else ignored this grace. They actually did NOTHING about their situation for which the grace of God came.
THIS WAS BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE LAW.
And it is going to be that way again, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH….It would have required a response to act or change in a certain manner expected by God (faith), but they couldn't be bothered, so they remained as they were. Not so with Noah, he even went on to follow God's instructions to build the Ark and to save himself with his household. Thus, faith involves an acceptable works/response and it is not a matter of just taking in of information.
Quote (Cubes @ Oct. 05 2006,18:44) The days of Noah are a prime example of the situation regarding grace and faith. Knowing our God, we must believe that he sent out a warning (grace) for repentence to all beforehand, as evidenced by the following verse.2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; What happened was that with the exception of Noah and his family, everyone else ignored this grace. They actually did NOTHING about their situation for which the grace of God came.
THIS WAS BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE LAW.
And it is going to be that way again, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH….It would have required a response to act or change in a certain manner expected by God (faith), but they couldn't be bothered, so they remained as they were. Not so with Noah, he even went on to follow God's instructions to build the Ark and to save himself with his household. Thus, faith involves an acceptable works/response and it is not a matter of just taking in of information.
Cubes,
So you have to have works in order to be saved?
And faith itself is works?
Yet the word says we are not saved by works.
Now lets see who am I going to believe?What do we do to receive grace?
Cubes were you around in the days of Noah? LOL! It seems that your answers always if possible will mention Noah.
Hi Cubes,
I agree.
Nathaniel is given us as the classic responder, a man in whom there was no guile.
From a situation of total cynicism he recognised God in Christ by one small miracle.Jn 1
” 45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man”
He immediately knew Jesus was the messiah without any other proofs.
That is simple faith, the faith of children.Quote (Cubes @ Oct. 05 2006,18:18) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,20:53) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 05 2006,10:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,07:31) SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Hi KenrchWorks of grace are NEVER rejected…….. but Faith alone is.
I understand that you are not talking about faith that comes from the flesh, but do you understand that I am not talking Love that comes from the flesh.
Please take the time to see the difference.1: The Law
Rejects the Law
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Enforces the law
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.And confirms the law he teaches is Love
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)2: Works
Rejects works
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Enforces works
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.And confirms leading up to these scriptures we should not despise the fruits of the spirit that come from grace. There is NO LAW against the fruits.
You CANT say works of Love don’t count but *WORKS* of faith do….Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; FOR THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
It’s the same thing to judge against the works of Love as judging against the works of Faith. BOTH ARE FRUITS, BOTH fruits come from the grace of ***HOPE***.
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
The above are fruits of the spirit WE SHOULD not despise the graces given by Jesus.
These fruits are the works he enforces. Study Romans 2 above and below.Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.
Please understand that Paul only ever rejects works outside of grace.
I believe you can give me many scriptures that so we are Justified by Faith.
But the word is truth and let every man be a liar because there are ALSO many examples that show we are justified by OTHER fruits.Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY [LOVE], I AM NOTHING.Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.
All faith includes all forms of faith
G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.did these following people have faith? YES!
are they saved? NO!Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.You can’t even say Jesus is Lord without faith but yet they call Jesus lord and in his name do many wonderful works of faith but ***MANY*** will not be saved because faith only or faith alone without the greatest faith of the spirit saves no one. Even the demons believe.
Love and Blessings in the name of Jesus
SS,
You know what I'm not even going to try to make you see. If you believe that God only loves you if you love him first then believe it.If you believe that if you have faith but are not able to show the love that follows that your god will burn you go ahead.
Know this if you wish to believe this way. Only those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the children of God. So if you are not led by the Spirit of God then you will burn. Wheather you have faith or love makes no difference the way you are thinking. Because scripture also says if you are not led by the spirit then you are not a child of God. If not a child of God then you will burn.
*Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.*
I'm not in competition with anyone on this forum. It is not up to me for you to believe but up to you.
But know this that if the Father does not draw you to Jesus then you have no faith.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, exce
pt the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. (Rom. 8:28-30)So even before faith the Father HAS to draw you. I believe that's it in a nut shell their are those who have a zeal for God but because they were not drawn by God they don't know God. They have only what they can have a fleshly knowledge of the word. (Rom. 10:1-3)
You do whatever it is you are called to do one way or another you will.
We differ in doctrine, but I agree with SS in this.Without love, one has not the Spirit of God for God is love. It's the cardinal sign by which we may be recognized as genuine children of God and disciples of Christ. The watermark, so to speak.
Moreover, there is no faith without works.
Abraham BELIEVED and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. That means he DID something. He was moved to do something and he RESPONDED accordingly. If faith did not require any form of action, then every one is automatically saved! Hello. And there should have been no need for the patriachs from Egypt, saving Joshua and Caleb, to perish in the wilderness.
Scripture Seeker is right, brothers and sisters.
Cubes what do we do to receive Christ. How can you love Christ if you don't know Christ?How do we receive grace?
Once you accept Christ then you will love. You have no love unless you have Christ. It's that simple!
What good is water baptism before you accept Christ?
And the same here what good is love unless you accept Christ?
What does it take to accept Christ?
We will see.
Hi ,
Accepting Christ as a means to salvation does not appear in scripture but accepting the seed of the gospel about Christ is.Mk 4
“3Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:4And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.
8And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.
9And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
13And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14The sower soweth the word.
15And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
21And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?
22For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
23If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
26And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;
27And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.
28For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
29But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
30And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
31It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
32But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
33And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.”
Quote (Cubes @ Oct. 05 2006,18:18) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,20:53) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 05 2006,10:00) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 05 2006,07:31) SS, Nick would have you believe that if you have faith in Jesus and die before you could show love your God would burn you forever.
Same as water baptism. It is not the work of going under the water that saves you.It is not by works you are saved!
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.If I give more to charity than you and have not the faith to believe in Jesus will I be saved. But if I have the faith to believe Jesus then love will follow.
If I would die before the fruit of faith has a chance to manifest itself will God burn me?
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvationJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Whosoever believe on Him and have love? NO!
If you love me I will love you back. Is that how God is?God does not have conditional love. All He ask is that you believe in Him and that takes faith. You cannot love God if you don't know God.
There are bunches of scriptures I could give but do I really have too?
Hi KenrchWorks of grace are NEVER rejected…….. but Faith alone is.
I understand that you are not talking about faith that comes from the flesh, but do you understand that I am not talking Love that comes from the flesh.
Please take the time to see the difference.1: The Law
Rejects the Law
Gal 5:4 CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.Enforces the law
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.And confirms the law he teaches is Love
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)2: Works
Rejects works
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.Enforces works
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.And confirms leading up to these scriptures we should not despise the fruits of the spirit that come from grace. There is NO LAW against the fruits.
You CANT say works of Love don’t count but *WORKS* of faith do….Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; FOR THOU THAT JUDGEST DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
It’s the same thing to judge against the works of Love as judging against the works of Faith. BOTH ARE FRUITS, BOTH fruits come from the grace of ***HOPE***.
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
The above are fruits of the spirit WE SHOULD not despise the graces given by Jesus.
These fruits are the works he enforces. Study Romans 2 above and below.Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.
Please understand that Paul only ever rejects works outside of grace.
I believe you can give me many scriptures that so we are Justified by Faith.
But the word is truth and let every man be a liar because there are ALSO many examples that show we are justified by OTHER fruits.Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.Paul even says that if we have ALL FAITH, [think about that word]
“ALL FAITH” mean’s not lacking any amount of faith. If you have All FAITH you have TRUE FAITH.1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY [LOVE], I AM NOTHING.Joh 17:17 ….. THY WORD IS TRUTH.
All faith includes all forms of faith
G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.did these following people have faith? YES!
are they saved? NO!Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.You can’t even say Jesus is Lord without faith but yet they call Jesus lord and in his name do many wonderful works of faith but ***MANY*** will not be saved because faith only or faith alone without the greatest faith of the spirit saves no one. Even the demons believe.
Love and Blessings in the name of Jesus
SS,
You know what I'm not even going to try to make you see. If you believe that God only loves you if you love him first then believe it.If you believe that if you have faith but are not able to show the love that follows that your god will burn you go ahead.
Know this if you wish to believe this way. Only those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the children of God. So if you are not led by the Spirit of God then you will burn. Wheather you have faith or love makes no difference the way you are thinking. Because scripture also says if you are not led by the spirit then you are not a child of God. If not a child of God then you will burn.
*Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.*
I'm not in competition with anyone on this forum. It is not up to me for you to believe but up to you.
But know this that if the Father does not draw you to Jesus then you have no faith.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, exce
pt the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. (Rom. 8:28-30)So even before faith the Father HAS to draw you. I believe that's it in a nut shell their are those who have a zeal for God but because they were not drawn by God they don't know God. They have only what they can have a fleshly knowledge of the word. (Rom. 10:1-3)
You do whatever it is you are called to do one way or another you will.
We differ in doctrine, but I agree with SS in this.Without love, one has not the Spirit of God for God is love. It's the cardinal sign by which we may be recognized as genuine children of God and disciples of Christ. The watermark, so to speak.
Moreover, there is no faith without works.
Abraham BELIEVED and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. That means he DID something. He was moved to do something and he RESPONDED accordingly. If faith did not require any form of action, then every one is automatically saved! Hello. And there should have been no need for the patriachs from Egypt, saving Joshua and Caleb, to perish in the wilderness.
Scripture Seeker is right, brothers and sisters.
Thank you Cubes and amen.
Love and blessings in the name of Jesus
Hi SS,
You said
“When we were in the world practicing sin, there came a time when we believed God's testimony that He gave His only begotten Son so that we could be reconciled to Him. Romans 10:17 states: “So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God”. When we believed, we came to God with a repentant heart through our Lord Jesus, and his blood washed away all of our sins”Catholicism teaches infant baptism.
So if a catholic realises his sin and his personal need for salvation does he have to be baptised in water given that the rite performed over him as an infant did not involve his faith or his repentance?
Or is intellectual assent sufficient do you think?
Quote (Cubes @ Oct. 05 2006,18:44) The days of Noah are a prime example of the situation regarding grace and faith. Knowing our God, we must believe that he sent out a warning (grace) for repentence to all beforehand, as evidenced by the following verse. 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
What happened was that with the exception of Noah and his family, everyone else ignored this grace. They actually did NOTHING about their situation for which the grace of God came.
THIS WAS BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE LAW.
And it is going to be that way again, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH….It would have required a response to act or change in a certain manner expected by God (faith), but they couldn't be bothered, so they remained as they were. Not so with Noah, he even went on to follow God's instructions to build the Ark and to save himself with his household. Thus, faith involves an acceptable works/response and it is not a matter of just taking in of information.
Cubes,
So you have to have works in order to be saved?YES. You said it yourself. ACCEPT, BELIEVE on Jesus.
And faith itself is works?
You don't think ACCEPT & BELIEVE are passive, dead styrofoam sort of things, do you?
If you hear the warning of a fire alarm. I pray you would act on faith and so get up and do what is required, and not just ignore it knowingly. The response to the alarm is faith. To not respond and so much as investigate would be lack of faith.Yet the word says we are not saved by works.
Eph 2:8 For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I do not deny that we are saved by grace. I said there was no dispute there as God is before all. Had he not, we would not. But we are not the only people who have observed the presence of God for it is indeed evident to all creation that GOD IS. That has not been enough to save anyone whenever he called someone. Pharoah and Nebuchadnezzar both knew that God is.Following this awareness of God should follow a godly, active response unto the faithfulness of God. That in my understanding, is faith.
No response to God, no salvation.We are saved by grace because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. It isn't because we were blameless or perfect. But what good is his death to one who would not respond? This is why it is grace through faith.
Now lets see who am I going to believe?
We shall both believe God. But perhaps there is need for us all to help one another understand. As usual I view it as working together, for those who want to.
What do we do to receive grace?We ACKNOWLEDGE and RESPOND accordingly because we count he who promised as faithful. What we ought not to do is to let it fall on deaf ears and dead hearts. That would be lack of faith. Think about the various people that Jesus commended for having faith and compare their actions to those he said didn't have faith, such as those among whom he could do no miracles due to their disbelief.
Cubes were you around in the days of Noah? LOL! It seems that your answers always if possible will mention Noah.
LOL.
And here I thought you mentioned Noah the most! Hey, he was saved, wasn't he? We're in good company if we should be as he.Hi Cubes,
Yes faith is by grace.
Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”and by faith we have access to grace
Romans 5:2
“By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”Doubt limits faith.
Jas 1
“6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,”
Faith, which is given us, is as the trunk of the tree and is damaged by doubt, such that the sap of grace cannot flow into it and through it to produce fruit.
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