SCRIPTURAL COMMON SENSE Vs CONFUSION

[Cubes]

Jhn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

How many does that make again?

Jhn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

What does it matter who honors whom when one speaks of himself — that is if the Father and Son are the same ….well, God?

[Cubes]

WHO HAS INSTRUCTED OR DIRECTED YHWH

ISAIAH 40:12 Who has measured the *waters in the hollow of His hand,
Measured heaven with a span
And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure?
Weighed the mountains in scales
And the hills in a balance?
13 Who has directed the Spirit of YHWH,
Or as His counselor has taught Him?
14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him,
And taught Him in the path of justice?
Who taught Him knowledge,
And showed Him the way of understanding?

Compared to: WHO HAS INSTRUCTED OR DIRECTED YESHUA

Luke 4:17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 “The Spirit of YHWH is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me *to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”*
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jhn 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son, and SHOWS Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will

[Woutlaw]

Cubes,

Are you a Oneness believer?

[Cubes]

Hi Woutlaw,

If the Oneness faith holds that God was the Father of the OT, The Son of the NT, and the Holy Spirit of this present time then I definitely do not believe that.

I believe that YHWH is exclusively the Most High God. Alone. His being is not tied into any other personality however all other beings originate from him.

I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son.

I believe that both our Father YHWH and our brother YESHUA are present concurrently and shall be seen together in glory but that it is the Father who is God of all.

[Sultan]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,11:52)

Hi Woutlaw, If the Oneness faith holds that God was the Father of the OT, The Son of the NT, and the Holy Spirit of this present time then I definitely do not believe that. I believe that YHWH is exclusively the Most High God. Alone. His being is not tied into any other personality however all other beings originate from him. I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son. I believe that both our Father YHWH and our brother YESHUA are present concurrently and shall be seen together in glory but that it is the Father who is God of all.

Amen.

[Cubes]

Quote (Sultan @ Mar. 04 2006,17:33)

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,11:52) Hi Woutlaw, If the Oneness faith holds that God was the Father of the OT, The Son of the NT, and the Holy Spirit of this present time then I definitely do not believe that. I believe that YHWH is exclusively the Most High God.  Alone.  His being is not tied into any other personality however all other beings originate from him. I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son.   I believe that both our Father YHWH and our brother YESHUA are present concurrently and shall be seen together in glory but that it is the Father who is God of all. Amen.

Hi Sultan,

I have to say that I thank God for this website as I believe that God is using it to help us all challenge, clarify, hone what we believe based on his truth rather than what tradition has passed down. I sense the church of God emerging from our different backgrounds and nations and it is exciting indeed. I hope we continue to bear patiently w/ one another in love and that those on the fringes would not be afraid to join in as the truth is revealed through each of us to one another in Christ. Also that we would not be afraid to let go of what things are shown to not line up with the mind of Christ.

May the blessings of the Father be upon us all that seek after him through our Lord, Christ Jesus.

[Woutlaw]

Hi Cubes,

I was just asking because one of your post sounded much like the Oneness teaching. I'm not attacking you my friend, If that is what you believe I respect that. I studied with the United Pentecostal Church for several months. It is clearly an erroneous teaching. I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in the United Pentecostal Church. I couldn't find anyone else who would do it so I did it there. Water baptism is one of the few things I agree with Oneness believers on.

[Cubes]

WHOSE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Since Romans 8:11 clearly states that the Spirit of HIM is the one who raised up JESUS and shall quicken US…. what happens to the spirit of the others in the conglomerate of three in one?
And for the Oneness group, how does this verse justify your doctrine if seemingly three manifestations are being expressed here at the same time when there is supposed to be only one being?  

[Cubes]

Quote (Woutlaw @ Mar. 04 2006,19:02)

Hi Cubes, I was just asking because one of your post sounded much like the Oneness teaching. I'm not attacking you my friend, If that is what you believe I respect that. I studied with the United Pentecostal Church for several months. It is clearly an erroneous teaching. I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in the United Pentecostal Church. I couldn't find anyone else who would do it so I did it there. Water baptism is one of the few things I agree with Oneness believers on.

Hi Woutlaw:

Thanks for pointing that out. I am not aware of it, so if you don't mind letting me know which post it is the next time you come across it (please PM me then in case I miss your post), I shall look into it and defend, clarify or retract it as may be needed.

Having said that, I believe that there's some truth to be found in many of the organizations (but a lot of falsehood too). We accept what is truth and reject what isn't as we realize it.

[Is 1:18]

Quote

I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son.

Hi Cubes,
Just for clarification, do you believe that Yahshua was “begotten” at the time of His earthly conception?

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 04 2006,21:01)

Quote I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son. Hi Cubes, Just for clarification, do you believe that Yahshua was “begotten” at the time of His earthly conception?

Hi Is

The question is too technical for me.  I am not sure I understand it.  I know that God overshadowed Mary with his own spirit leading to her conception.  The child that was born was introduced to us as the Father's (only begotten) Son.  I accept those words and the relationship because God says so.  Not sure of the technicalities or the physiological intricacies involved therein.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,19:18)

WHOSE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT? Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Since Romans 8:11 clearly states that the Spirit of HIM is the one who raised up JESUS and shall quicken US…. what happens to the spirit of the others in the conglomerate of three in one? And for the Oneness group, how does this verse justify your doctrine if seemingly three manifestations are being expressed here at the same time when there is supposed to be only one being?

He he, it's not quite that simple Cubes. Here is Romans 8:11 in context:

ROMANS 8:9-11
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

This passage raises a few questions for me:
1. Are the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ synonyms? If so, why??
2. Or, are two different Spirits in view here? The spirit of Him who was crucified and that of Him who raised Him?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,21:17)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 04 2006,21:01) Quote I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son. Hi Cubes, Just for clarification, do you believe that Yahshua was “begotten” at the time of His earthly conception? Hi Is The question is too technical for me.  I am not sure I understand it.  I know that God overshadowed Mary with his own spirit leading to her conception.  The child that was born was introduced to us as the Father's (only begotten) Son.  I accept those words and the relationship because God says so.  Not sure of the technicalities or the physiological intricacies involved therein.

Thanks for the reply Cubes. I'll rephrase it.
IYHO, did the “begettal” of Yahshua happan happan at His conception (i.e. incarnation) or some time before this (i.e an eternal generation)?

[Is 1:18]

Gotta go. I'll be interested to read your reply(s) later.
Be well.

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 04 2006,21:22)

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,21:17) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 04 2006,21:01) Quote I believe that by his own spirit he created and/or begat Yeshua, his only begotten son. Hi Cubes, Just for clarification, do you believe that Yahshua was “begotten” at the time of His earthly conception? Hi Is The question is too technical for me.  I am not sure I understand it.  I know that God overshadowed Mary with his own spirit leading to her conception.  The child that was born was introduced to us as the Father's (only begotten) Son.  I accept those words and the relationship because God says so.  Not sure of the technicalities or the physiological intricacies involved therein. Thanks for the reply Cubes. I'll rephrase it. IYHO, did the “begettal” of Yahshua happan happan at His conception (i.e. incarnation) or some time before this (i.e an eternal generation)?

Is 1:18: I hold to the believe that the Father, YHWH, is before all existence.

Having said that, I frankly do not know WHEN Jesus became a son, and don't consider it to matter to our belief that he IS the son of God.

I believe the scriptures that say he came from heaven and was before Abraham, that all things were created through him.
And I see and believe the scriptures that show him also as the seed of David. I hold both to be true.

More importantly, God has qualified him to be both Lord of all and the firstborn of all regardless of when he actually became a son.

Sorry if I am not helpful, Is. Hope to talk w/ you again soon.

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 04 2006,21:18)

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 04 2006,19:18) WHOSE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT? Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Since Romans 8:11 clearly states that the Spirit of HIM is the one who raised up JESUS and shall quicken US…. what happens to the spirit of the others in the conglomerate of three in one? And for the Oneness group, how does this verse justify your doctrine if seemingly three manifestations are being expressed here at the same time when there is supposed to be only one being?   He he, it's not quite that simple Cubes. Here is Romans 8:11 in context: ROMANS 8:9-11 9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. This passage raises a few questions for me: 1. Are the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ synonyms? If so, why?? 2. Or, are two different Spirits in view here? The spirit of Him who was crucified and that of Him who raised Him?

Hi Is.

Perhaps I am using “spirit” when I should be using soul/mind/life and may stand to be corrected on my answer#2.

When we are born again, it is the Father's Spirit that he begets us by in as much as he begat Jesus by his own spirit.
In that we too become the children of God calling him Abba, Father; we become brethren w/ Jesus and co-heirs w/ him; as we abide in Christ we become one with him and w/ the Father.

1. As the risen Lord and one in whom the fullness of God dwells and the only begotten of the Father, I believe he has his Father's Spirit GIVEN to him without measure.

2. I also believe that he has his own unique spirit/mind/life/soul apart from the Father's, just as we have our own.

[Is 1:18]

Quote

Having said that, I frankly do not know WHEN Jesus became a son, and don't consider it to matter to our belief that he IS the son of God.

Hi Cubes,
Well I would say it is important in the sense that it would give me insight into what the title “Son of God” actually means to you. From what you've written I take it that you believe the title originates from an event that happaned before His incarnation. Is this correct?

[Proclaimer]

Jesus was the Word of God and in The Book of Revelation he is still called the Word of God. When he died he returned to the glory that he had with the Father.

Is 1:18,

Why dont you tell us what the son of God means. We might even agree with you. Perhaps you can reply to this in the “Who is Jesus” forum.

[Cubes]

Hi Is 1:18

See you inthe Who is Jesus thread.

[david]

Scriptural common sense, vs confusion.

Is 1:18, or anyone esle,
If you are wondering what the expression “Son of God” means, there are about 1728 times where we find the expression “son of” in the Bible. I strongly suggest you look at each of these. I believe you will find a common thread: They all mean what they say.
So when all those People (John, Peter, Paul, Jesus, Jehovah, Nathaniel, an angel, the demons, the Jews, etc) said that Jesus was God's Son, or the Son of God, there is no confusion to be had.
If anyone came from somewhere where the expression “son of” wasn't understood, they need only check the other 1700 or so scriptures where that expression occurs to understand that it means exactly what is says. He is the “Son of” Almighty God.

It's just scriptural common sense when you look at what the words actually mean.
It's confusion when you try to insert a belief and change words to mean something they do not.

[Author]

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