- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,12:09) Quote (Stu @ June 13 2011,23:40) Belief does not equal faith. Not all beliefs require faith.
Not so Stu.The mere fact of believing something is putting your trust in that something. It may be the lowest form of faith, but it is faith all the same. Faith is trusting something and there are of course levels of trust. If I have a little bit of trust, then it could be called a belief.
E.g., if I believe that I will pass an exam, it is because I have a certain amount of trust that I will indeed pass the exam. If I didn't believe I could pass an exam, then I would also have NO faith in that idea.
You have faith that there is no God because you believe that there is no God. In fact it seems that you have a lot of faith in that idea.
Trust is not faith either. Trust is based in evidence.I mean real evidence, not oxymoronic unseen evidence.
According to your Book of Unseaworthy Boat Building, I have the evidence of the unseen that there is no god.
Sounds like you can forget the oxy bit. It's just moronic.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:01) My great great great… grandflower was.
How else do you explain 45% DNA in common.I am a daffodil that evolved legs and arms.
45% of my DNA is still the original daffodil, and Evolution took care of the rest.All credit to Evolution and a big thanks, because I would find it boring sitting a field all day.
Indeed. How is it you share 45% of your DNA with daffodils and yet are not descended from them?Do you know?
Do you know anything at all about your distant ancestry? If not, what excuse do you have to remain in ignorance of such an engaging subject given all your posting on the matter?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:03) Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,19:58) You understand neither zero nor infinity. What is 1/0 ?
Stuart
Stu, you are not allowed to work with a number that is not zero.You have to start with 0 and you can apply 0 to 0 in anyway you see fit.
Good luck.
If you answer the question I will then show you how you get a positive integer from using zero only.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,20:04) Trust is not faith either. Trust is based in evidence.
Exactly. True faith has evidence. It is communication with God who sees all.If you cannot hear God's voice then you neither belong to him or know him.
You can't explain that faith Stu because you have never experienced it. So instead of proving it, you just mock that which you do not understand.
Ignorant people have done that with many things over the course of human history.
Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,20:07) If you answer the question I will then show you how you get a positive integer from using zero only. Stuart
Stu, I have already said that within infinity you can produce a zero result and any other result because it encompasses a never ending amount of finite numbers that can be combined in any number of ways.But if you start with 0 alone, then you stay with 0. (0/0) (0=0) (0x0) (0-0)…
If nothing was the first thing, then there would be nothing now. But there is something perhaps an infinite amount of things.
That fits because God is eternal and nothing is nothing.
I choose the first and out of the two, you would prefer to choose nothing even though it makes no sense whatsoever.
This is why you make me laugh sometimes. You arguments sort of go like 0 + 0 = everything. And I even politely ignore the + symbol which is something.
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:07) Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,20:04) Trust is not faith either. Trust is based in evidence.
Exactly. True faith has evidence. It is communication with God who sees all.If you cannot hear God's voice then you neither belong to him or know him.
You can't explain that faith Stu because you have never experienced it. So instead of proving it, you just mock that which you do not understand.
Ignorant people have done that with many things over the course of human history.
Quote True faith has evidence.
Religious platitude.Quote It is communication with God who sees all.
Religious platitude.Quote If you cannot hear God's voice then you neither belong to him or know him.
Brave of you to admit you hear voices in your head.Quote You can't explain that faith Stu because you have never experienced it.
I have never experienced falling off a tall building either but I would not believe anyone who said that was anything more than succumbing to gravity.Your claims are just special pleading. Unless you are willing to share the experiences you attribute to your Imaginary Friend, and have them analysed properly then you have no credibility. I may as well just claim that I have had special experiences that tell me there is no such thing as antelopes, but you are just an ignorant swine for believing in antelopes because you have not seen what I have seen.
Quote So instead of proving it, you just mock that which you do not understand.
Exactly what do you claim I am mocking? You have never said.Like all christians you cannot accept that there is such a thing as the burden of proof. I don’t even set that impossible standard for you, I just require unambiguous evidence that presents a good case for your god claims.
But you don’t have unambiguous evidence, and you have never said what a god is. So you have said nothing.
Quote Ignorant people have done that with many things over the course of human history.
Meaning what?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2011,20:15) Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,20:07) If you answer the question I will then show you how you get a positive integer from using zero only. Stuart
Stu, I have already said that within infinity you can produce a zero result and any other result because it encompasses a never ending amount of finite numbers that can be combined in any number of ways.But if you start with 0 alone, then you stay with 0. (0/0) (0=0) (0x0) (0-0)…
If nothing was the first thing, then there would be nothing now. But there is something perhaps an infinite amount of things.
That fits because God is eternal and nothing is nothing.
I choose the first and out of the two, you would prefer to choose nothing even though it makes no sense whatsoever.
This is why you make me laugh sometimes. You arguments sort of go like 0 + 0 = everything. And I even politely ignore the + symbol which is something.
Answer my question, what is 1/0, and I will show you.Stuart
From what I understand, it is nonsensical.
Because if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0 then 1 should equal 2.Division is the opposite of multiplication, so you should be able to reverse engineer the equation to get the multiplicative equation from the division.
e.g., 9 /3 = 3 so 3 x 3 = 9
But if you say 1 / 0 = 0 then 0 x 0 should equal 1, but it doesn't.
And if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0, then 1 should equal 2, but it doesn't.
That is some of the reasons for being considered nonsensical.I am aware that in programming it can represent infinity (according to Wikipedia), but it generally produces an error and crashes the program because it is actually nonsensical.
It is generally regarded as nonsensical in the same way that dividing 10 bananas among no one doesn't make sense. Therefore dividing 1 banana among no monkeys isn't relevant. Perhaps an oxymoron.
I am sure that you could attempt to say something like it represents every number by saying 1/0 and 2/0 and 3/0 all equal zero and therefore zero represents everything. But remember this. If you start with infinity, you can produce all numbers and even get a zero result and you can do it logically. Whereas if you start with zero and act upon it with zero you have zero because the very point of acting upon zero with zero means you should not be applying anything to zero, otherwise the very act of applying something to nothing means that the something is the cause not nothing.
Quote (Stu @ June 14 2011,19:51) Aren't you special then. Shame your belief system calls you wretched.
What do the voices in your head tell you to do?
Would that stand up in court?
Stuart
Yes I am special. We all are because we are unique. But not all will inherit eternal life.Yes my flesh is wretched. Compared to heavenly glory and perfection I am wretched. But I have a hope and faith that I will make it to the next level/age.
Whereas your belief is that you will not. We agree here because you do not believe that life continues on after the body perishes and I believe that the godless or those who reject God do not inherit eternal life. So for different reasons, we agree on the same result.
And as for the voices. It tells me to love God with all my heart and people as myself. He tells me to help the poor. To help those in need. And to do the best that I can do in all aspects of my life. Of course I do not live up to that because I am indeed wretched, but the voice of God is gracious and a great guide for the soul.
As for standing up in court. Well human courts are not equipped for spiritual things.
The heavenly court and judgement is.Quote (t8 @ June 15 2011,09:34) From what I understand, it is nonsensical.
Because if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0 then 1 should equal 2.Division is the opposite of multiplication, so you should be able to reverse engineer the equation to get the multiplicative equation from the division.
e.g., 9 /3 = 3 so 3 x 3 = 9
But if you say 1 / 0 = 0 then 0 x 0 should equal 1, but it doesn't.
And if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0, then 1 should equal 2, but it doesn't.
That is some of the reasons for being considered nonsensical.I am aware that in programming it can represent infinity (according to Wikipedia), but it generally produces an error and crashes the program because it is actually nonsensical.
It is generally regarded as nonsensical in the same way that dividing 10 bananas among no one doesn't make sense. Therefore dividing 1 banana among no monkeys isn't relevant. Perhaps an oxymoron.
I am sure that you could attempt to say something like it represents every number by saying 1/0 and 2/0 and 3/0 all equal zero and therefore zero represents everything. But remember this. If you start with infinity, you can produce all numbers and even get a zero result and you can do it logically. Whereas if you start with zero and act upon it with zero you have zero because the very point of acting upon zero with zero means you should not be applying anything to zero, otherwise the very act of applying something to nothing means that the something is the cause not nothing.
Well done. You get any positive number by adding zeros together.Of course that is not how the universe came into being.
Stuart
Quote Yes I am special. We all are because we are unique. But not all will inherit eternal life.
Religious platitude.Quote Yes my flesh is wretched. Compared to heavenly glory and perfection I am wretched.
Nasty religious platitude.Quote But I have a hope and faith that I will make it to the next level/age.
Homespun religious platitude. Sounds Buddhist.Quote Whereas your belief is that you will not.
That’s because yours is almost certainly a nonsense fantasy story.Quote We agree here because you do not believe that life continues on after the body perishes and I believe that the godless or those who reject God do not inherit eternal life. So for different reasons, we agree on the same result.
No, you believe that I will be dug up some time after I die, put in front of some kangaroo court where I am judged by your Imaginary Friend, who has no moral authority over me as I have never killed anyone but it apparently has killed millions, and then I will be permanently destroyed by fire because I have denied that it is anything more than a figment of your imagination.And you say Big Bang cosmology and evolutionary biology are crazier than that.
Quote And as for the voices. It tells me to love God with all my heart and people as myself. He tells me to help the poor. To help those in need. And to do the best that I can do in all aspects of my life. Of course I do not live up to that because I am indeed wretched, but the voice of God is gracious and a great guide for the soul.
So what is a god then? If you can know what its voice says to you, what is it you are hearing?Quote As for standing up in court. Well human courts are not equipped for spiritual things.
Special pleading.Quote The heavenly court and judgement is.
Religious platitude.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 15 2011,18:12) Quote Yes I am special. We all are because we are unique. But not all will inherit eternal life.
Religious platitude.Quote Yes my flesh is wretched. Compared to heavenly glory and perfection I am wretched.
Nasty religious platitude.Quote But I have a hope and faith that I will make it to the next level/age.
Homespun religious platitude. Sounds Buddhist.Quote Whereas your belief is that you will not.
That’s because yours is almost certainly a nonsense fantasy story.Quote We agree here because you do not believe that life continues on after the body perishes and I believe that the godless or those who reject God do not inherit eternal life. So for different reasons, we agree on the same result.
No, you believe that I will be dug up some time after I die, put in front of some kangaroo court where I am judged by your Imaginary Friend, who has no moral authority over me as I have never killed anyone but it apparently has killed millions, and then I will be permanently destroyed by fire because I have denied that it is anything more than a figment of your imagination.And you say Big Bang cosmology and evolutionary biology are crazier than that.
Quote And as for the voices. It tells me to love God with all my heart and people as myself. He tells me to help the poor. To help those in need. And to do the best that I can do in all aspects of my life. Of course I do not live up to that because I am indeed wretched, but the voice of God is gracious and a great guide for the soul.
So what is a god then? If you can know what its voice says to you, what is it you are hearing?Quote As for standing up in court. Well human courts are not equipped for spiritual things.
Special pleading.Quote The heavenly court and judgement is.
Religious platitude.Stuart
Greetings Stu ….. I don't see any platitudes there I see suplication humility and contrition….. The kind of syrupy platitudes that catch my attention are sayings that go as follows “Come As you are” “All you have do is call on the name and you are saved “……Platitudes are used by skillfull charlatins to relieve the faithfull of their money…..I like Creflo Dollar and Joel Oser…these are true masters of the platitude…Quote (theodorej @ June 16 2011,05:46) Greetings Stu ….. I don't see any platitudes there I see suplication humility and contrition….. The kind of syrupy platitudes that catch my attention are sayings that go as follows “Come As you are” “All you have do is call on the name and you are saved “……Platitudes are used by skillfull charlatins to relieve the faithfull of their money…..I like Creflo Dollar and Joel Oser…these are true masters of the platitude…
Of course you are right that the televangelists are platitudinous. But the only difference is that rather than t8 asking for money rather it is that he is financially and time-generous working to maintain and moderate the forum, for which we are all appreciative I'm sure.That does not change the fact that whether Creflo says them or t8 writes them, they are statements that are intended to sound grand but mean absolutely nothing whatever.
I have tried inventing some myself in the past to make the point.
“I am a telephone but God is the exchange”
Does that mean anything to you? It means nothing to me, and I wrote it. The problem with it is that it is no metaphor for anything unless the “god” bit has a definition. All such statements read the same to me: they say nothing that can be falsified and therefore they are indistinguishable from anyone else's untestable idea.
Stuart
Stu, it is hard to describe what the colour green looks like to a blind man.
You have to be able to see it for yourself.No point in saying that green doesn't exist because you are blind, because such a comment is only true in your minute experience of which doesn't even represent 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1% of what exists.
A wise man doesn't burn bridges even when he thinks that he might not need them.
Quote (Stu @ June 15 2011,18:02) Quote (t8 @ June 15 2011,09:34) From what I understand, it is nonsensical.
Because if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0 then 1 should equal 2.Division is the opposite of multiplication, so you should be able to reverse engineer the equation to get the multiplicative equation from the division.
e.g., 9 /3 = 3 so 3 x 3 = 9
But if you say 1 / 0 = 0 then 0 x 0 should equal 1, but it doesn't.
And if 0 x 1 = 0 and 0 x 2 = 0, then 1 should equal 2, but it doesn't.
That is some of the reasons for being considered nonsensical.I am aware that in programming it can represent infinity (according to Wikipedia), but it generally produces an error and crashes the program because it is actually nonsensical.
It is generally regarded as nonsensical in the same way that dividing 10 bananas among no one doesn't make sense. Therefore dividing 1 banana among no monkeys isn't relevant. Perhaps an oxymoron.
I am sure that you could attempt to say something like it represents every number by saying 1/0 and 2/0 and 3/0 all equal zero and therefore zero represents everything. But remember this. If you start with infinity, you can produce all numbers and even get a zero result and you can do it logically. Whereas if you start with zero and act upon it with zero you have zero because the very point of acting upon zero with zero means you should not be applying anything to zero, otherwise the very act of applying something to nothing means that the something is the cause not nothing.
Well done. You get any positive number by adding zeros together.Of course that is not how the universe came into being.
Stuart
Please demonstrate.Quote (t8 @ June 17 2011,08:34) Stu, it is hard to describe what the colour green looks like to a blind man.
You have to be able to see it for yourself.No point in saying that green doesn't exist because you are blind, because such a comment is only true in your minute experience of which doesn't even represent 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1% of what exists.
A wise man doesn't burn bridges even when he thinks that he might not need them.
Just because you claim to be able to see “green” does not mean it exists.I wouldn't have taken you as a fan of Pascal's Wager. But you seem to be. How very gullible your god must be.
Stuart
Stu blindness comes in many forms.
Some people can't see because they are physically blind.
Some people cannot see repercussions of their own actions because they lack foresight, these people are typically called fools.
Some people cannot learn from the past because they ignore or have no hindsight, these people are also called fools sometimes.Even that which you physically see is merely an image generated by the brain.
Is it not foolish to stand in full confidence of what you have experienced in your physical brain and thinking that there is no such experience outside of what your brain has interpreted for you.
Perhaps now in hindsight you might understand what we really think about your testimony so far. Then again, maybe not.
Even if you doubt the experience that people have had with God or even people's real experiences with death. You still have yet to refute that a creator is the only option that works for explaining everything you see. Remember the other 2 options? Nothing and something with the IQ of zero.
So far Stu you have failed in your quest to demonstrate that there is no creator. Heck, you cannot even show us a half-good alternative.
Please send a more skillful Atheist to the forum. You have had your turn. Time to pass the baton onto a more able Atheist I think.
I also feel like a challenge. You don't offer that, but you have been a good laugh I admit.
Your avatar also says it all. An orangutan with his hand over his face. Perhaps that is prophetic concerning what you can really see?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
