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Hi,
The primary mission of Christ Jesus was to preach the kingdom of God to the Jews. Much of what he also said was explaining to them the meaning and relevance of the OT Law.It was Peter and Paul and the apostles who have explained to gentiles like us the detail of how these teachings apply in our lives.
Those who would reject Paul's teachings risk losing all as we are not Jews and need his help to grasp the deeper things.
Hi,
Paul was a preacher and a teacher.
He preached the gospel of the kingdom to the unsaved
and he taught those who were saved the way of Jesus, the Son of God.its interesting you bring this topic up Nick. I was just talking with my father who was trying to make the point that JW's are the only ones who are truly preaching the Gospel of Jesus…which is the kingdom
I said thats true…but the fact is they are preaching the “wrong” message…its not that we are not suppose to preach “God's kingdom is at hand”…its that according to Paul we have another message which is of first importance..notice this scripture…
1 Corinthians 15:2-8 (niv)…2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
The reason they do this is because they thru their doctrines have elevated their organization into equal importance with Christ…they believe and I quote, “Only Jehovah's Witnesses and those associated with them, have an scriptual hope of surviving Armageddon.”
So you see they believe and I qoute that they are “noah's ark”..
But you see Christ said he was “the way”
But because Christ has, in my eyes, been given a diminshed role in the organization…they preach the wrong message..which is basically….
“Isn't the world messed up? Well thats because the bible says that it would be this way, because Armageddon is near. Come be a JW so that you can be saved and live on a paradise on earth”
As I told him thats almost blasphemous to me
Hi DK,
Yes they preach themselves and the Watchtower and not just Christ crucified and raised.
Another daughter of the whore preaching a false gospel?
Paul preached the eternal gospel.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,06:45) Hi DK,
Yes they preach themselves and the Watchtower and not just Christ crucified and raised.
Another daughter of the whore preaching a false gospel?
Paul preached the eternal gospel.
but trueHi..and what are you then…spouting selected nonsense and fantsy. Were you there?….did you hear?…if you heard did you listen?…The answer is that you are playing mind games, fiddling frenziedly with a new testament rubix cube.
You seem to feel that you have in front of “the book of the dead” pertinent to our time. The astounding thing is that you all know so much about prattle but very little about the reality of life. Jesus never referred, according to the supposed history you call the 'new testament' to any “whore of Babylon”….if you had any knowledge of what we call “Jews”, in Babylon you'd know that they held great power and were legion.
This, deliberately distasteful perhaps expression came from another source altogether. If there are any or were any “whores of Babylon”it is “ergo” less likely it is the Pope in Rome…irrespective of the Christian Church's political aspirations manipulations and and mass murder over centuries. I might add that in real life there are far more dangerous and evill people than whores…only a male dominated sect would use such a word.
Not withstanding that, that same group of “whores” produced the testament you are using to condemn it and on which you base your arguments. You and those like you, preening themselves on educating the world through biblical interpretations and remembering your lines, are the empty vessels of which Jesus spoke, the sounding brass…it fits well.
Like the Jewish rabbis and high priests you use what you purport to be knowledge to elevate yourselves. Like amateur rabbis you put on a great show of self illumination through “fierce debate”….as though you hold some key to knowledge over and above others.
I quote no one, I merely observe. I also try to protect what is the truth as seen daily around us from the corrupting influence of zealots
When directing religious traffic towards Paul as the mastermind you might read and learn of Paul's highly disputed role in the church's founding.That the church bases itself on Paul is no guarantee of correctness, the church, wherever it was had people easily as intelligent in logic as we are today but as here…some were obsessed with one doctrine or another….eventuating in the Nicean creed and its own diaspora. Of all rational thinking the Bogomils, the Cathars some say they became, thought most rationally.
You might also learn that the Magdalen, the companion of Jesus, was the most knowledgeable of all. She was therefor relegated to being the “saved” harlot, not as worthy as the dopes who followed Jesus around…
After a few years of supposedly being with him…whatever that actually means in “preaching time” is anyone's guess….they were still asking questions according to the NT about matters which the drover's dog would have cottened onto. This was to highlight an “enlightenment”when …”overshadowed by the paraclete” and “taking courage” they preached in “tongues” (sic).
The fact is that the new Testament tells a loose story, the dates are wrong…Jesus for example was not 12 but 19 when he back chatted his mother after disappearing for a few days…or he'd have richly deserved a smack across the mouth..instead that piece of ignorance on his part (so said) is turned into some source of wonderment.
Paul and his purported conversion on the road to Damascus might well be true, but might equally be just a good story. If the NT was, again “the word of god” it would be clear and consistent. It is neither and involves apocrophy and dissention.
The brilliance of the figure called Jesus is so evident however I suggest he would be mightily jacked-off about the sounding brass interpreting the interpretations of what he said which was then put to political use.
Another example is the confusion of the Marys, the role of the Magdalen, the signs that more was a foot than was evident have been gleaned over years of discovery however certain facts do seem on the verge of changing a whole view without changing “salvation”…
The fraud alleged to have happened in dating the shroud, for example, was to pretend it was from the middle ages and not from the time of Jesus. This took place because the shroud indicates that the corpse was still bleeding…and thus still alive.
What narrow-minded bible bashers quoting chapter and verse and hurling accusations about whores and such like, seem not have the wit to comprehend is that whether Jesus died or not, was married or not is utterly irrelevant to salvation, if such need as salvation exists.
Better you get on with your own life and spend more time in personal reflection and looking at the real world…as I am trying to encourage us all do here, rather than to be posing as spokesmen and women for 'god' and Jesus through a 'catholic' , by origin, bible …..Experts utterly confused and confusing others by arguing the toss about something you generated from it without even the tradition and access to documentation which Catholicism has.
I don't argue that Catholicism is right or wrong, merely how arrogant it is of hundreds of 'Johnny come lately's to beat this group with its own stick and referring to it as “the whore of babylon”…the well known JW phrase.
The world is a mess because of the hypocrisy and brutality of men claiming to be inspired by 'god' manipulating murdering raping and pillaging and then proseltysing as though this is “the way”. This disguised fuedal system is called “democracy” and it's bleating about goodness and justice is directly the opposite of what is done in practice. .
Jesus' message can be summed in a paragraph, it doesn't require self styled experts in religious tracts anaysing it to death because it is no more than edited reports and additions. Get on with life and teach by humble, unintended, good example, not by missionary zealotry as though somehow you represent “The Ancient Order of the Truths of Jesus”.
If you can't help yourself, are beyond self control when it gets to religion, you just are driven to keep spouting chapter and verse and are too obsessed to simply display goodness in your own life, please try to teach the simple truths not try to use the testaments, the epistles and letters, as a battering ram.
The best thing, in my view, is to put down this NT book and all your other “empowerment tools” and leave them where they lie…Instead, look around and see how you can help people with what they need…not what you need….and in doing so, living the life of the Christ. As I struggle for example under the weight of accumulation I realise more how simplicity is not a mental death sentence and that I should be sharing more, what I have worked so hard to get…for in not worshipping money, I should not substitute something money has bought and use it as a security blanket.
Going back to Jesus…Remember what he is reported to have said of the Jewish man at prayer “thank the lord I am not like the others” and recall the tail of the widow's mite. Much of importance in living life well..is in those short tales.
If I can make a suggestion in closing my objection……get on with your own business and salvation and leave others alone so as not to be as confused and arrogant as bible bashers are but instead as the catholic service ends these days “let us go…..to love and serve the Lord” .
The Lord in Christianity, by the way, is not “god”
ShalomQuote (pythagorus @ June 29 2008,12:04) Hi..and what are you then…spouting selected nonsense and fantsy. Were you there?….did you hear?…if you heard did you listen?…The answer is that you are playing mind games, fiddling frenziedly with a new testament rubix cube. You seem to feel that you have in front of “the book of the dead” pertinent to our time. The astounding thing is that you all know so much about prattle but very little about the reality of life. Jesus never referred, according to the supposed history you call the 'new testament' to any “whore of Babylon”….if you had any knowledge of what we call “Jews”, in Babylon you'd know that they held great power and were legion.
This, deliberately distasteful perhaps expression came from another source altogether. If there are any or were any “whores of Babylon”it is “ergo” less likely it is the Pope in Rome…irrespective of the Christian Church's political aspirations manipulations and and mass murder over centuries. I might add that in real life there are far more dangerous and evill people than whores…only a male dominated sect would use such a word.
Not withstanding that, that same group of “whores” produced the testament you are using to condemn it and on which you base your arguments. You and those like you, preening themselves on educating the world through biblical interpretations and remembering your lines, are the empty vessels of which Jesus spoke, the sounding brass…it fits well.
Like the Jewish rabbis and high priests you use what you purport to be knowledge to elevate yourselves. Like amateur rabbis you put on a great show of self illumination through “fierce debate”….as though you hold some key to knowledge over and above others.
I quote no one, I merely observe. I also try to protect what is the truth as seen daily around us from the corrupting influence of zealots
When directing religious traffic towards Paul as the mastermind you might read and learn of Paul's highly disputed role in the church's founding.That the church bases itself on Paul is no guarantee of correctness, the church, wherever it was had people easily as intelligent in logic as we are today but as here…some were obsessed with one doctrine or another….eventuating in the Nicean creed and its own diaspora. Of all rational thinking the Bogomils, the Cathars some say they became, thought most rationally.
You might also learn that the Magdalen, the companion of Jesus, was the most knowledgeable of all. She was therefor relegated to being the “saved” harlot, not as worthy as the dopes who followed Jesus around…
After a few years of supposedly being with him…whatever that actually means in “preaching time” is anyone's guess….they were still asking questions according to the NT about matters which the drover's dog would have cottened onto. This was to highlight an “enlightenment”when …”overshadowed by the paraclete” and “taking courage” they preached in “tongues” (sic).
The fact is that the new Testament tells a loose story, the dates are wrong…Jesus for example was not 12 but 19 when he back chatted his mother after disappearing for a few days…or he'd have richly deserved a smack across the mouth..instead that piece of ignorance on his part (so said) is turned into some source of wonderment.
Paul and his purported conversion on the road to Damascus might well be true, but might equally be just a good story. If the NT was, again “the word of god” it would be clear and consistent. It is neither and involves apocrophy and dissention.
The brilliance of the figure called Jesus is so evident however I suggest he would be mightily jacked-off about the sounding brass interpreting the interpretations of what he said which was then put to political use.
Another example is the confusion of the Marys, the role of the Magdalen, the signs that more was a foot than was evident have been gleaned over years of discovery however certain facts do seem on the verge of changing a whole view without changing “salvation”…
The fraud alleged to have happened in dating the shroud, for example, was to pretend it was from the middle ages and not from the time of Jesus. This took place because the shroud indicates that the corpse was still bleeding…and thus still alive.
What narrow-minded bible bashers quoting chapter and verse and hurling accusations about whores and such like, seem not have the wit to comprehend is that whether Jesus died or not, was married or not is utterly irrelevant to salvation, if such need as salvation exists.
Better you get on with your own life and spend more time in personal reflection and looking at the real world…as I am trying to encourage us all do here, rather than to be posing as spokesmen and women for 'god' and Jesus through a 'catholic' , by origin, bible …..Experts utterly confused and confusing others by arguing the toss about something you generated from it without even the tradition and access to documentation which Catholicism has.
I don't argue that Catholicism is right or wrong, merely how arrogant it is of hundreds of 'Johnny come lately's to beat this group with its own stick and referring to it as “the whore of babylon”…the well known JW phrase.
The world is a mess because of the hypocrisy and brutality of men claiming to be inspired by 'god' manipulating murdering raping and pillaging and then proseltysing as though this is “the way”. This disguised fuedal system is called “democracy” and it's bleating about goodness and justice is directly the opposite of what is done in practice. .
Jesus' message can be summed in a paragraph, it doesn't require self styled experts in religious tracts anaysing it to death because it is no more than edited reports and additions. Get on with life and teach by humble, unintended, good example, not by missionary zealotry as though somehow you represent “The Ancient Order of the Truths of Jesus”.
If you can't help yourself, are beyond self control when it gets to religion, you just are driven to keep spouting chapter and verse and are too obsessed to simply display goodness in your own life, please try to teach the simple truths not try to use the testaments, the epistles and letters, as a battering ram.
The best thing, in my view, is to put down this NT book and all your other “empowerment tools” and leave them where they lie…Instead, look around and see how you can help people with what they need…not what you need….and in doing so, living the life of the Christ. As I struggle for example under the weight of accumulation I realise more how simplicity is not a mental death sentence and that I should be sharing more, what I have worked so hard to get…for in not worshipping money, I should not substitute something money has bought and use it as a security blanket.
Going back to Jesus…Remember what he is reported to have said of the Jewish man at prayer “thank the lord I am not like the others” and recall the tail of the widow's mite. Much of importance in living life well..is in those short tales.
If I can make a suggestion in closing my objection……get on with your own business and salvation and leave others alone so as not to be as confused and arrogant as bible bashers are but instead as the catholic service ends these days “let us go…..to love and serve the Lord” .
The Lord in Christianity, by the way, is not “god”
Shalom
Hi p,
Welcome.
Are you proposing that Catholism is the way?
Are all ways that men choose equally valid in the eyes of God?Hi,
Paul would have walked the world stage and left almost unnoticed by most who lived in his time.
Certainly the christan community would have known of him but it sounds as though others were more respected. We get the wrong impression from reading of his actions, his preaching and teaching roles, from our study of scripture that he was an awesome leader and a sought after preacher.Just a humble servant.
A hardworking, knowledgeable and sincere one with his eye on his deserved eternal reward.
Hi,
2 Corinthians 10:10
For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his personal presence is unimpressive and his speech contemptible.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2008,14:32) Hi,
The primary mission of Christ Jesus was to preach the kingdom of God to the Jews. Much of what he also said was explaining to them the meaning and relevance of the OT Law.It was Peter and Paul and the apostles who have explained to gentiles like us the detail of how these teachings apply in our lives.
Those who would reject Paul's teachings risk losing all as we are not Jews and need his help to grasp the deeper things.
Nick.
You begin the sentence with…”The primary mission of Christ Jesus”…
Not the …”primary mission…” it was the “only' Commision. (Matt.15:24) we must trust scripture, and not adjust it to accomadate our beliefs.Blessings
Hi ,
Paul preached the one eternal gospel of Jesus Christ2Cor4
1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Nick.
Paul was commisioned to preach “Christ Jesus” to the nations, “to complete the word of God. It was not the same as that Jesus taught to Israel.Blessings.
Hi CO,
Here are the discilpes of Jesus preaching the good news.
ACTS 14
15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Acts 20:24
“But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
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