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Quote (Stu @ Sep. 22 2009,20:33) OK, so that is not me then. Good. Stuart
Stu I know I said that I would never ingage with a debate with you, but this I want t say to you. We are all sinners and if we think not, then the truth is not in us, SCRIPTURES TELL IS IN JOHN.
IreneYou can admit to whatever you want regarding yourself, but if you are going to make accusations about me without saying specifically what action and what evidence you have to back it up, then why should you not expect a libel summons?
I do not respect the religious invention called sin. It is anti-human.
Stuart
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 10 2009,10:19) Quote (eveh @ Sep. 09 2009,12:16) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,08:24) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 06 2009,23:11) satan is working overtime today God save us all ! 
Satan was cast into the lake of fire millenniums ago. It is the evil hearts of men that wreak all the havoc in the world.thinker
Jesus didn't seem to think so when he was tempted. Or how about when Jesus told us we need to be careful, because Satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour? Or why did Jesus say, “Get thee behind me Satan” to Peter? He sure thought Satan was roaming the Earth. What evil are we to be delivered from? according to the Lord's Prayer.You think it is just the sin in man's' heart? That is not what the Bible teaches. The Devil is mentioned 57 times in the King James Bible. And that is just one of the names he goes by. Satan, serpent and others all refer to him. He seems to be pretty busy to day.
Satan was cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returned in AD70.thinker
Now thats the best news I have heard yet…..So I don't have to be worried about being poked by a pitch fork from a cute little IMP with pointy ears and a pointy tail….Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 24 2009,02:48) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 10 2009,10:19) Quote (eveh @ Sep. 09 2009,12:16) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,08:24) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 06 2009,23:11) satan is working overtime today God save us all !
Satan was cast into the lake of fire millenniums ago. It is the evil hearts of men that wreak all the havoc in the world.thinker
Jesus didn't seem to think so when he was tempted. Or how about when Jesus told us we need to be careful, because Satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour? Or why did Jesus say, “Get thee behind me Satan” to Peter? He sure thought Satan was roaming the Earth. What evil are we to be delivered from? according to the Lord's Prayer.You think it is just the sin in man's' heart? That is not what the Bible teaches. The Devil is mentioned 57 times in the King James Bible. And that is just one of the names he goes by. Satan, serpent and others all refer to him. He seems to be pretty busy to day.
Satan was cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returned in AD70.thinker
Now thats the best news I have heard yet…..So I don't have to be worried about being poked by a pitch fork from a cute little IMP with pointy ears and a pointy tail….
I only have to
So there is no more sin? Oh, come on
A thousands NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
IreneThere's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious.
We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Yes, we know what you believe, but we do, and please respect our feelings about that subject. Afterall this is a Christian Forum and if you don't believe it, you can always leave.
Irenestu, Hello, I know I said I had no need to talk to you, because I felt you were putting down Gods word,(im very sorry) But i also have lived without God in my life, and I know the difference. I would just like to know, do you ever do something or know of someone else that does something to hurt others that you think is wrong, or you dont like it? dont you feel in your heart that what ever the situation is that it was wrong? If you do than that is reconizing sin. Its wrong.You are feeling something in your heart! And there has been sin since Adam and Eve, and thats why Jesus paid the price for our sins (IF) you will let Him into your life. I believe you are wondering or feeling something or you wouldnt be on this sight. I promise you for a “fact” if you would find a good church and get into really studying Gods word that you would totally feel a change in your heart. because the Holy spirit is going to start showing you truths. It is honestly something you have to experience for yourself. There is nothing like it! Even if you prayed to God and tell Him you dont understand or believe; but if He is there to reveal Himself to you, and you start studying His word,.. you are going to start feeling His prescence, and seeing things in a whole different way.I truly mean that. Do you think that there would be so many christians in the world if they were not feeling His prescence at all. He promises you a helper the Holy Spirit, if you would just let him in.Every thing from the beginning to the end is in Gods word and you can read it and see every thing falling into place. you have tried not believeing so now you should try believing and see for your self. I promise you wont be disappointed! If you ever do, I would love to know. God bless you!!
Quote (georg @ Sep. 25 2009,02:31) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Yes, we know what you believe, but we do, and please respect our feelings about that subject. Afterall this is a Christian Forum and if you don't believe it, you can always leave.
Irene
Were you attempting an answer to my question?I didn't get the sense that you were.
You were about to dust off your shoes…again.
Stuart
katjo
Quote Hello, I know I said I had no need to talk to you, because I felt you were putting down Gods word,(im very sorry) But i also have lived without God in my life, and I know the difference.
Did you just ‘not know god’, or did you convert from a position where you had really thought about the fact that christianity, of all belief systems, requires you to literally believe the silliest dogmas?Quote I would just like to know, do you ever do something or know of someone else that does something to hurt others that you think is wrong, or you dont like it? dont you feel in your heart that what ever the situation is that it was wrong? If you do than that is reconizing sin. Its wrong.You are feeling something in your heart!
We are both products of a long evolutionary history that has selected the characteristics that give us the best survival and reproductive chances, and that includes the degree to which the conscience is genetically hard-wired to cause us to think and act in a way that does give this survival and reproductive advantage. Don’t think that ‘Do not kill’ was first thought of by ancient Jews. Religionists have tried to steal and codify this set of inbuilt values as their doctrine, of course adding the other silly bits too, and pass it all off as an original proclamation of their Imaginary Friend. It has little to do with how humans came by their ethics. After all, Judeo-christianity has only been around for about the last 5% of all human history.Quote And there has been sin since Adam and Eve, and thats why Jesus paid the price for our sins (IF) you will let Him into your life.
Point 1: The myth of Adam and Eve, as portrayed in Genesis as the only two humans in existence, is biologically impossible.Point 2: I have a low opinion of people who prostyletise to me, and especially those who suggest that what I really need is a human sacrifice because there is inherently something wrong with me. Where do you get off?
Quote I believe you are wondering or feeling something or you wouldnt be on this sight.
I think it is spelled ‘site’.Quote I promise you for a “fact” if you would find a good church and get into really studying Gods word that you would totally …
…snipped more mindless prostyletising. You have NO IDEA how much ‘studying of god’s word’ I have done. You have NOT THE FAINTEST CLUE about whether your religious mythology would be of any help to me. You do not know me well enough to be able to pronounce that I am in need of any such ‘help’.How unbelievably rude of you.
Stuart
Stu-why do you think I am being rude, what was rude about that? Why do you not believe that Adam and Eve were the only two persons on earth? Thats where the sin started and than on from their children and on, and on, and on. do you think people just popped up out of the blue, without a creator? And I went to church in my younger years until about 14 and drifted away from it-I know the difference, Ive been a born again christian for 7 years now, and go to church 3 times a week, and I would not change that for nothing. I know there is a God, I feel his prescence, you can see all his word being fulfilled, and I have so much more peace in me, when I lean on Gods promises. I dont worry about things like I use to because I know God will see me threw my problems. And he does. I just wish you would experience it for your self. I use to think is there really a God? and than think How can I deny it when I fill His prescence, when I see His word being fulfilled? when I get angry about something or at someone, and before you open your mouth to speak, the holy spirit is convicting you on how you should answer spiritually, not what the flesh wants to say. Its all got to start in your heart first, you have got to feel it there. Ill give you a example about Gods word being fulfilled. Do you know the united states is just about to stop backing Isreal? WE have always backed Isreal, that is Gods country and thats what we are suppose to do,our country is not going to keep being blessed if we back out on them. Its in Gods word. In Micah 4;2 it tell us that the law shall go fourth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem, and 7 tells us the Lord shall reign over them in Mount zion for ever and ever. About two weeks ago A christian station (Daystar) announced that they had showed a christian station in Isreal for around 6 months to see what response they would get from the orthdox jews, and they got alot of good response (they had never been allowed that, it was prohibited. They agreed to let the Daystar program have a channel their and said it would go into every home 24/7. And a pastor John Hagee from texas is going to be bringing them the word. (The bible says the word must go into every nation before the end comes.) Anyway they had a signed document from Isreal and they also said they had put up a t.v. station for them and it was on Mount Zion! Than I thought about Micah 4 that says the law shall go fourth of Zion, and I thought scripture is really being fulfilled. I just know if you open up your heart to God and question HIm, he is going to give you answers, I promise!god Bless1
katjo
why do you think I am being rude, what was rude about that?
Quote You think three is something wrong with me that can be fixed by accepting a human sacrifice. You won’t say what it is, or how such a piece of brutality is going to benefit me, and I suspect soon you will be making more demands that I believe even more desperately silly things. Quote Why do you not believe that Adam and Eve were the only two persons on earth?
Because it is not true. Humans have always been a medium to large group, ever-changing. If you went back in history you would not be able to identify the ‘first human’, because ‘human’ is just a name for an evolutionary stage of a whole population.Quote Thats where the sin started and than on from their children and on, and on, and on.
Sin is an invention of Judeo-christianity. It is not a thing as such, just an idea to beat you over the head with. Come on, didn’t you learn anything when you were an atheist?Quote do you think people just popped up out of the blue, without a creator?
Humans were not created with intent. They arose by descent with modification, by natural selection. That is so obviously true I am wondering what you are thinking.Quote And I went to church in my younger years until about 14 and drifted away from it-I know the difference,
But you did not actually learn anything about the real world while you were out of the grips of delusion.Quote Ive been a born again christian for 7 years now, and go to church 3 times a week, and I would not change that for nothing.
You would not change that for anything, not ‘nothing’.Quote I know there is a God, I feel his prescence, you can see all his word being fulfilled, and I have so much more peace in me, when I lean on Gods promises.
I ‘know’ there is not a god, just as well as you know there is one.I dont worry about things like I use to because I know God will see me threw my problems. And he does. I just wish you would experience it for your self. I use to think is there really a God? and than think How can I deny it when I fill His prescence, when I see His word being fulfilled? when I get angry about something or at someone, and before you open your mouth to speak, the holy spirit is convicting you on how you should answer spiritually, not what the flesh wants to say. Its all got to start in your heart first, you have got to feel it there. Ill give you a example about Gods word being fulfilled. WE have always backed Isreal, that is Gods country and thats what we are suppose to do,our country is not going to keep being blessed if we back out on them. Its in Gods word. In Micah 4;2 it tell us that the law shall go fourth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem, and 7 tells us the Lord shall reign over them in Mount zion for ever and ever. About two weeks ago A christian station (Daystar) announced that they had showed a christian station in Isreal for around 6 months to see what response they would get from the orthdox jews, and they got alot of good response (they had never been allowed that, it was prohibited. They agreed to let the Daystar program have a channel their and said it would go into every home 24/7.
And a pastor John Hagee from texas is going to be bringing them the word. (The bible says the word must go into every nation before the end comes.) Anyway they had a signed document from Isreal and they also said they had put up a t.v. station for them and it was on Mount Zion! Than I thought about Micah 4 that says the law shall go fourth of Zion, and I thought scripture is really being fulfilled. I just know if you open up your heart to God and question HIm, he is going to give you answers, I promise!god Bless1
You are ruder than I imagined. You also appear to be quite gullible. Have you just come from your megachurch where the pastor told you all this? He lives in a fantasy world, his ego inflated by all the hysteria he whips up. I think you live in a fantasy world too. Now if you could drop all the evangelical platitudes, maybe a civil conversation would be possible.Would you like to know more about exactly why the Adam and Eve myth is NOT how we came to be here? Real history is much more fascinating that Genesis…
Stuart
Stu- one thing Im not going to do is show you YOUR mess ups in spelling.(thats fine if thats what you want to do) If you know Gods word than I shouldnt have to tell you why you need to except Him. right? You say I havent told you how it is going to benefit you, but you should know that by reading the bible too. Humans have always been a medium or large group- How do you know that? Is it because someone tells you or you can prove it? Where did they come from? do you ever sin, or do you never do any thing wrong? And NO!! I was never a atheist,I just stopped going to church and didnot study the word like I should have. I can tell even tho I dont hear your voice, there is so much bitterness in you. And you say I was ruder than you imagined. Where was I rude? so can you tell me whats going to happen when the world comes to an end, or is it going to?
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 26 2009,03:20) dust off shoes mabye
maybe you should too. So He, (Stu) would not have anybody to debate with. So many foolish Humans on this site. I was one too, don't get me wrong, we all have to learn to cut it off.
Irenekatjo
Quote one thing Im not going to do is show you YOUR mess ups in spelling.(thats fine if thats what you want to do)
Why, did you see some?Quote If you know Gods word than I shouldnt have to tell you why you need to except Him. right?
Part of the reason I think christianity is a ridiculous load of nonsense is because I have come to know better what your scripture says. I used to think christians were meek, quaint but harmless. Since then I have learned how much I underestimated the situation.You say I havent told you how it is going to benefit you, but you should know that by reading the bible too.
Yes I already know, from reading the bible, that Judeo-christianity has nothing that would benefit me. Even Matthew 7:12, with which I agree to some extent, is not the best way of putting that idea. The bible can’t even do the good stuff well.Quote Humans have always been a medium or large group- How do you know that? Is it because someone tells you or you can prove it?
I use the word prove differently to you. However, using your version of ‘prove’, yes it has been proved but no I do not have the fossils in my home or a copy of the molecular evidence that I could show you directly. Hominid fossils tent to stay locked up in museums and scientific institutions. There would be little point showing you the results of DNA sequencing. They would mean little to you.Quote Where did they come from?
Where do what come from?Quote do you ever sin, or do you never do any thing wrong?
Which question would you like me to answer?Quote And NO!! I was never a atheist,I just stopped going to church
You were born an atheist.Quote and didnot study the word like I should have.
Who told you ‘should’?Quote I can tell even tho I dont hear your voice, there is so much bitterness in you.
You are wrong. There is barely any bitterness in me. It is just that christianity brings out the worst in me. I think it does the same to you too.Quote And you say I was ruder than you imagined. Where was I rude?
Haven’t I already told you that? You ASSUME that your christian fantasy idea of ‘sin’ applies to me, telling me that there is something inherently wrong with me, then you tell me that the answer to my issues is to accept a human sacrifice. How presumptuous of you. You were doubly rude in trying to tell me what was good for me at least twice in your last two posts. You have asked questions in your last post that are much more civil and genuine. Once the prostyletising is dropped people can get along much better.Quote so can you tell me whats going to happen when the world comes to an end, or is it going to?
We will both be long gone by the time the sun starts its growth into a red giant in 3-4 billion years. Even before then, life will be impossible on earth because of the increased radiation of heat from the sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sun_Life.png
The earth will eventually disappear into the sun about 5 billion years from now. By then, humans will not be called humans any more.Good question!
Stuart
Quote (georg @ Sep. 26 2009,20:40) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 26 2009,03:20) dust off shoes mabye
maybe you should too. So He, (Stu) would not have anybody to debate with. So many foolish Humans on this site. I was one too, don't get me wrong, we all have to learn to cut it off.
Irene
Hallo Irene! Wie geht es Ihnen heute?Stuart
No, I was not born a atheist. you cant be an atheist until you can say, I dont believe in God. And all children that die, go to heaven. I know there is a God. I see so many of His miracles, answered prayers, peace in my heart, and feel His prescence. I would feel empty without him. Even tho you dont know what its like to feel his prescence i want to say this: For those who dont believe, I would rather live my life following Gods word and die and find out that there wasnt one, than to live my life without him and die and find out there was!!!
katjo
Quote No, I was not born a atheist. you cant be an atheist until you can say, I dont believe in God.
Explain to me then why it is that usually (but not always) children end up in the religion of their parents, or the dominant one of the country in which they grow up. Do you think the choice of religion is genetic? Surely they must all start out with no religion. Young people do not even have the capacity for abstract ideas like ‘salvation’ or ‘sin’ or ‘karma’ until they are about13, so I can’t see how any child could be anything other than atheist in effect, no matter what their parents might claim.Quote And all children that die, go to heaven.
You can’t ‘prove’ that. I don’t think anyone really believes that, do they? It is just a white lie told to help people deal with tragic loss of a young one.Quote I know there is a God. I see so many of His miracles, answered prayers, peace in my heart, and feel His prescence.
Perhaps you can explain why I don’t see any of this. Maybe you can tell me why people who were once devout christians have ended up denying that their christian experience was anything more than a delusion. Were they not real christians?Quote I would feel empty without him.
How do you know that? You claim never to have been atheist!Quote Even tho you dont know what its like to feel his prescence i want to say this: For those who dont believe, I would rather live my life following Gods word and die and find out that there wasnt one, than to live my life without him and die and find out there was!!!
Why? Is your god a spiteful, violent god that could not stand that one of his ‘creation’ had been created so badly that it did not even have the ability to worship its creator? Maybe such a creator should look himself in the mirror (do gods have reflections, or are they like vampires?) and ask the questions there rather than bully and smite humans. If it turns out you are right, and I am to face the Judeo-christian judgement, then I will be using whatever strength I have to demand answers form a god that boasts about killing up to 32,000,000 humans. Do you not feel a sense of injustice here?Of course the real good news is that all the nasty dogmas of christianity, hell, eternal existence (how meaningless that would be!), sin and salvation, are all make-believe, invented by humans and used by those for whom it is convenient. That is still certainly true in the US.
Seriously, there are no gods katjo. They are inventions of the human brain, which is really good at seeing tings that are not really there. That is how we all get through the day without swamping the brain with information: it can’t actually cope with all the data coming in through our senses, so it makes up some of it just to present you with what you think is a complete picture.
Have you seen this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kDQY_oHN1sStuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 26 2009,07:26) Because it is not true. Humans have always been a medium to large group, ever-changing. If you went back in history you would not be able to identify the ‘first human’, because ‘human’ is just a name for an evolutionary stage of a whole population.
It doesn't alter your basic argument any, but I believe there's some evidence for the possibility that the human race has been to the relative brink of extinction at least once in the past – so the total population size hasn't always been that large.A species originating from only 1 breeding pair however would rapidly become inbred without a very good genetic strain. It would be somewhat incestuous too!
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