Satan

Participant

nick

that s right and true

February 12, 2010 at 2:22 pm#177404

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 12 2010,04:32)

Quote (Gene @ Feb. 11 2010,16:35)

Nick………First you need to prove that a real SATAN (BEING) Apart from MAN HIMSELF, DOES EXIST. Jesus seem to think Peter was a SATAN, and JUDAS was a DEVIL, and the Pharisees were Childern of the DEVIL. All of these can be seen , But what about this elusive (BEING) No one can see jumping in and out of People. Please present scripture so we may more closely identify Him, what does this (BEING) look LIKE. Or is it Just a ADVERSARIAL SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that is IN all Carnal MEN that is the true ADVERSARY of GOD, NOT some elusive hidden BEING or Spook, going around Jumping in and out of People.

Gene

You believe in God, do you not?
You believe in Jesus Christ, do you not?
When have you ever seen either one?
Jesus called Peter, and the Pharisees Satan, because they tried to hinder him from doing God's work.
How can you expect any one to show you what a spirit being looks like; Jesus tried to explain that to Nicodemus; he said a spirit is like the wind, like the air, so there you are, now you know what a spirit being looks like.
Would Jesus speak of devils/demons if they did not exist?

Luk 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in [any] house, but in the tombs.

Luk 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

You see, these devils recognized Jesus, ever wonder how come? because they were not always devils, they shouted for joy when Jesus created the world, Job 38:4,7.

Luk 8:29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

Luk 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

Luk 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.

Luk 8:32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.

Luk 8:33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

Also, only Jesus could see these devils.

Georg

Gene

Your silence is telling.

Georg

February 12, 2010 at 2:23 pm#177405

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 12 2010,04:05)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2006,12:14)

Hi scott:

My understanding is that the devil is the spirit that entered into the world by Adam and Eve when they disobeyed God.

Genesis 3:1 states: “Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made”.

This scripture says that the serpent was a beast that God had made, and we know that he tempted Eve and caused her to disobey God, and she gave of fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and he also ate in disobedience to God's command.

God's Judgment for the serpent was: “And the Lord God said unto the serpent, because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise shalt bruise his heel.
(Gen. 3:14-15)

Adam became the servant of the serpent and therefore through the spirit of disobedience his seed.

We know that we do not see any serpents going around tempting any one today. Proverbs 1:10 states: “My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. 1 John 2:15-16 states: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world”.

This spirit described in 1 John 2:15-16 entered into the world by Adam and Eve. “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6)

Some try to use Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 for scriptural basis for beliveing that the devil was a fallen angel but I don't understand these scriptures to mean that at all.

In Ezekiel 28, God is dealing with the King of Tyrus and He says to Ezekiel, “Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, 'Thus saith the Lord God; because thou has said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is not secret that they can hide from thee: with thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou has gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures;by thy great wisdom and by thy traffic hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: therefore,thus saith the Lord God; because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; (I have quoted v1-6) Continuing with verse 11 God says, “Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'thus saith the Lord God; thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in thy wasy from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee'”. (This is verse 11-15) In these last verses some say that God is showing us that the devil was a fallen angel, but my understanding is that he is talking about man. In the Garden Eden, it was Adam and Eve who were prefect but sinned. God is also talking about the king of Tyrus (Verses 16-19 continue if you would like to read).

Isaiah 14:12-14 states: “How art fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High”. If you will read the rest of this you will see that God is talking about the King of Babylon.

Revelation 12:3 states: “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”. (the last verse sounds like King Herod to me.)

Rev. 12:7-11 states: “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death”.

I believe that the above happened when Jesus rose from the dead. John 12:31-32 states: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me”. The Pharisees who considered themselves to part of the kingdom of God were cast out because of unbelief.

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God”. (2 Thes. 2:3-4)

Rev. 13:8 states: “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world”.

Rev. 20:1-3 states: “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season”. I believe that this will happen after God has brought judgment by the seven last plagues against those who have received the mark of the beast and who are alive when Jesus comes for the church. There won't be any one alive on the earth at this time.

Rev. 20:7-9 states: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and f
ire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. I believe that this will happen after the unsaved are raised from the dead.

Rev. 20:10 states: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I may have given you more that you were asking sscott, but I thought while we were talking about the devil, I would carry the topic through the end.

God Bless

Marty

I know you like to make sense out of all of this, but how can you possibly think that these comparisons to human kings, are human kings?
Ezekiel 28:1-10 do speak of the king of Tyre, but verses 12-15 do not. Which one of their kings would you say was “full” of wisdom, and “perfect” in beauty? Which one of their kings was in the garden of “Eden”? Which one of their kings was “created” rather then born? Was any of their kings the “anointed cherub”? Which of their kings was upon the holy mountain/throne of God? And finally, which one of their kings was “perfect in the day he was CREATED”?

Lucifer is compared to the king of Tyre, and the king of Babylon because they were so much like him, proud, arrogant, strong, and self reliant; they thought they were indestructible.
Look at Isaiah, was there any king in Babylon that was named “Lucifer”? Was there any king that fell from heaven after he decided, that was were he was going to set up his throne, and be like God?
You know, rejecting God's truth is equal to calling him a liar; you can not expect God to give you his Holy Spirit when you do that, and you know without his Holy Spirit you will not understand his word.

Rev. 12:3, beast simply means kingdom or government, the seven heads represent the seven empires of the Bible. The fact that Satan is pictured as the beast with seven heads shows, he is the power behind all worldly kingdoms, they are his; and yes, he has used every kingdom available to destroy God's plan, as he did use Herod when he had all the boys two years and under killed.

Rev. 12:7-11, was the cleansing of God's sanctuary in heaven, Daniel prophesied in

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

That event took place in 1843, not that you will find records of it in any history book, it was a war fought by spirit beings.

Then you quote scriptures from 2 Thes., that is a reference to the Antichrist/the pope, who reigned from 565 till 1825, and history does tell us that during his reign he killed all who would not worship him, about 50 million people.
And, is he not worshiped all around the world? even today.

Rev. 20:1-3 has not happened yet, Satan will be locked up for a thousand years, the thousand years of Christs reign, when he will teach all men God's way, and resurrect all that are in their graves to be taught as well.
And yes, after the thousand years Satan will be loosed to give mankind one final test of obedience, those that follow him are destroyed forever, those that are true to God will live forever. Satan will get to see all of his attempts to destroy God's plan, go up in smoke, and then be cast into the lake of fire himself.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Death can only be destroyed if you destroy him that causes death.

Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The seven last plagues have already been poured out.
Marty, Christs church are the saints, those that gave their life for him. Don't be deceived and hope for a rapture, it wont happen.

Georg

Marty

No response from you either?

Georg

February 12, 2010 at 8:56 pm#177452

Participant

Why did God create Satan?

February 13, 2010 at 5:53 am#177556

Participant

CO
God did not created satan.

February 13, 2010 at 6:51 am#177568

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

February 13, 2010 at 8:30 am#177575

Participant

just like you and me we all have been created but if we be good pots or not that is up to us.

good can only make good ,if we leave him we will come bad.thats what happen to satan.

February 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm#177605

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

February 13, 2010 at 1:35 pm#177609

Participant

and this is men;Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Ge 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Ge 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
Ge 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

you see nothing was made wrong or bod,it was very good,

February 13, 2010 at 9:03 pm#177694

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 14 2010,00:15)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

Hi Georg.
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I have copied an article that explains this passage in Isaiah:

Isaiah's description of the King of Babylon in the yet future day of Israel's restoration, is also taken as referring to Satan's fall in the past (Isa.14:3-20):

How art thou fallen from heaven,
O, Lucifer, son of the morning!

As this is still future, it can hardly refer to Satan's primeval “fall.” At that time Satan will have been literally cast out from heaven (Rev.12:9, compare Luke 10:18). But these facts give us no license to identify the two. There will be a king of Babylon who will arrogate divine honors to himself and who will lord it over the kings of the nations, and who will shake kingdoms. Yet he is a man (Isa.14:16), and Satan is not a man.

Moreover, an examination of the Hebrew text, will convince any one that the evidence for the title “Lucifer” is exceedingly slight. It is precisely the same word as the translators rendered “howl” in Zech.11:2. In the feminine it occurs again in this very chapter, at the beginning of verse 31. In slightly different forms it is found in Isaiah ten times, and it is always rendered howl (13:6; 15:2,3; 16:7,7; 23:1,6,14; 52:5; 65:14). There is no valid reason why Isaiah 14:12 should not be rendered, “Howl!” instead of “Lucifer.” This name is a human invention, and should have no place in the Scriptures.

I believe God created Satan so as to have someone to oppose Him. How else could God show His power, unless there was someone, or something that was opposed to His ways? As God created “evil” (Isaiah 45:7), so that mankind would recognise “good”, He needed opposition to Himself to show that “His” power was stronger than satans evil power.

You could read the whole article I copied this from, it is lengthly, at: http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil004.html

If you do read it, let me know your opinion, thanks.

Blessings, Jerry.

February 13, 2010 at 9:19 pm#177695

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2010,00:35)

you see nothing was made wrong or bod,it was very good,

terraricca.
How about Isaiah 45:7

Former of light and creator of darkness,
Maker of good, and Creator of evil.
I, Ieue Aluueim, made all of these things.

Also in Proverbs 16:4

God has made everything for its own pertinent end,
Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.

Also in Ro.9:20-21

20 O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, “Why do you make me thus?”
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?

“All is of God”.

Blessings.

February 14, 2010 at 8:00 am#177774

Participant

terraricca.
How about Isaiah 45:7

Former of light and creator of darkness,
Maker of good, and Creator of evil.
I, Ieue Aluueim, made all of these things.

Also in Proverbs 16:4

God has made everything for its own pertinent end,
Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.

Also in Ro.9:20-21

“All is of God”.

Blessings.

this are the scriptures;Isa 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

God does not say that the darkness is Satan,what he says because he made light he also create darkness,(just like you light up a room now you have create shadow reflection.)

read by understand all of those verses you may come to a different conclusion.
Pr 16:2 All a man’s ways seem innocent to him,
but motives are weighed by the LORD.

Pr 16:3 Commit to the LORD whatever you do,
and your plans will succeed.

Pr 16:4 The LORD works out everything for his own ends—
even the wicked for a day of disaster.

Pr 16:5 The LORD detests all the proud of heart.
Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
do you think that by taking one verse out you will understand it rightfully or you could give it a interpretation as you wish.? read is (Paul)comment in is total argument

Ro 9:13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Ro 9:14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
Ro 9:15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Ro 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Ro 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
Ro 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Ro 9:19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”
Ro 9:20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”
Ro 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
Ro 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
Ro 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
Ro 9:24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
Ro 9:25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one

February 14, 2010 at 9:37 am#177784

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 14 2010,00:15)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

Georg, You ask questions you already know the answer to…

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 02 2010,01:45)

terraricca

Did God create the adversary; by that I mean, was Satan a Satan from the beginning?

Georg

What is your purpose for such an act? Merely to “Judge” someones answer?

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 05 2010,12:03)

Learn from terraricca.

Georg

Terraricca is not afraid to give his opinion on anything! I do offer mine as well.
I do agree with your view here Georg, but your tactics are a bit troubling.

Ed J

February 14, 2010 at 11:14 am#177802

Participant

edj

it is not a matter of being afraid,think of Goliath and David do you think David was afraith ?

February 14, 2010 at 4:41 pm#177828

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 14 2010,08:03)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 14 2010,00:15)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

Hi Georg.
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I have copied an article that explains this passage in Isaiah:

Isaiah's description of the King of Babylon in the yet future day of Israel's restoration, is also taken as referring to Satan's fall in the past (Isa.14:3-20):

How art thou fallen from heaven,
O, Lucifer, son of the morning!

You could read the whole article I copied this from, it is lengthly, at: http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil004.html

If you do read it, let me know your opinion, thanks.

Blessings, Jerry.

chosenone

Why is the Bible called the word of God?
When you doubt God's words, and look for truth elsewhere, what do you get then? is it not mere mans opinions? And what are opinions? opinions are rendered for lack of facts.
Why would you give more credibility to the opinion of a man than to the word of God?
God has given us “HIS WORD”, the truth, so that we can learn the truth, if we can't believe him, than who can you believe? If in fact you had reason to doubt God's words, would that not give us the excuse to say, “well, we did according to your word”?
To say that the words in the Bible don't mean what they say is nothing more than a “refusal” to believe the truth.
What did Jesus say to Thomas? blessed is he that does not see, but believes”.
Changing the meaning of the words is nothing more then calling God a liar.

Georg

February 14, 2010 at 4:46 pm#177829

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2010,20:37)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 14 2010,00:15)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

Georg, You ask questions you already know the answer to…

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 02 2010,01:45)

terraricca

Did God create the adversary; by that I mean, was Satan a Satan from the beginning?

Georg

What is your purpose for such an act? Merely to “Judge” someones answer?

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 05 2010,12:03)

Learn from terraricca.

Georg

Terraricca is not afraid to give his opinion on anything! I do offer mine as well.
I do agree with your view here Georg, but your tactics are a bit troubling.

Ed J

Don't talk to me about tactics; I correct wherever I see it necessary.

Georg

February 15, 2010 at 6:15 am#177976

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 15 2010,03:41)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 14 2010,08:03)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 14 2010,00:15)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 13 2010,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:53)

CO
God did not created satan.

terraricca.
If God did not create Satan, then who did? Is there another creator? Please show us who created him (Satan).

Blessings.

chosenone

You may not agree with this, but this was Satan before he became Satan.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

This was Satan, before he became Satan.

Georg

How art thou fallen from heaven,
O, Lucifer, son of the morning!

You could read the whole article I copied this from, it is lengthly, at: http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil004.html

If you do read it, let me know your opinion, thanks.

Blessings, Jerry.

chosenone

Georg

Georg.

Hi Georg, you say…
“Why is the Bible called the word of God?
When you doubt God's words, and look for truth elsewhere, what do you get then? is it not mere mans opinions? And what are opinions? opinions are rendered for lack of facts.
Why would you give more credibility to the opinion of a man than to the word of God”?

My answer…
The “bible” consists of many different versions, (perhaps as many as hundreds) why so many? All have different interpetations, and offer different meanings. Which interpetations are “Gods Word”? You judge me as being in error by your bible, your understanding of it. My understanding of scripture is from the Bible I use, and the opinion I have and gave to you, is biblical, and I used as an explanation, anothers opinion that is the same as mine.
So you see, my explanation is what I believe is the word of God, not as you say, “mans word and not Gods Word”.

I use the “Concordant Literal New Testament” bible. I do so because I have researched how the translation was done, and believe it to be the most accurate. You may disagree, and use a different translation, but be assured, there will be differences in meaning as to what you and I read and understand as to what it means.
So we all have opinions, you included, as to what certain passages of scripture mean. To accuse me of not trusting the word of God, is an opinion of yours, not fact. I believe earnestly in Gods word, I just may have a different opinion to you of what it says, because of the differences of our bibles.
Now if you can tell me which of the many versions of 'the bible' are “Gods Word”, then we'd probably agree more often.

So when you said…
“Changing the meaning of the words is nothing more then calling God a liar”.

My answer…
“Please show me which quote that you say I said, that says “Changing the meaning of the words is nothing more then calling God a liar”.

I'll look forward to seeing that quote.

Blessings.

February 15, 2010 at 10:24 am#177995