Salvation of all.

Participant

A lengthly explanation, for anyone thats interested.

The Living God

THE SALVATION OF THE UNBELIEVER

AS GOD is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of those who believe (1 Tim.4:10), we may confidently rest on one grand and glorious foundation truth–that all salvation is of God, and neither believer nor unbeliever has any part in it. On the one hand this assures us of the possibility of saving all men, for God alone is able, and, on the other, it bars out all human schemes for their restoration, whether by works, or suffering, by giving them a second chance, or by any cause whatever which originates in man. Those who believe are saved by His grace (Rom.4:16); those who do not believe are saved through His judgments, but in both it is He alone Who is Saviour.
Faith is but the channel of grace; it does not produce salvation. Judgment is but a means He uses, a process which leads to the opening of the unbeliever’s eyes. It does not remove his guilt or cleanse a single sin. That is done wholly and solely by the blood of Christ. Every effort to bring about the ultimate salvation of all through the purgatorial or penitential sufferings of the sinner is a denial of this great truth. Judgments do not save, but the God Who judges is also the Saviour, and all His dealings with mankind are governed by the grand goal which He has set before Him–to become All in all His creatures.
In setting forth the process by means of which God brings the unbeliever back to Himself we must remember that few believers are able to analyze the method used in their own salvation. Now, if we are not able to explain our own experience, how shall we understand His method with others? Yet, strange as it may seem, God’s dealings with the unbeliever are much more easily apprehended than His way with us. The very simplicity of faith baffles us. Most theological systems seek to base belief on evidence, and speak of “Christian evidences” as the foundation of the believer’s salvation. This is, rather, the method He uses in the deliverance of the unbeliever.

FAITH AND EVIDENCES

The case of Thomas is an example of the overpowering force of evidence where faith is wanting (John 20:26-29). No man can long withstand the testimony of his senses, even when (unlike Thomas) his interests may be opposed.
The tangible proofs given to support the proclamation of the kingdom affords a rich field for the study of the effect of evidence on the human heart. The unbeliever will be saved by sight. He will yield to the force of facts. He will be convinced by logic. What evidence is most suited for this purpose? In our Lord’s ministry we can see both the helps and the hindrances offered by the senses. The consideration of a few cases will reveal what most moves men and what makes them obstinate.
The rich young man was hindered by his possessions. The Samaritans were helped by the Lord’s words. The resurrection of Lazarus led many Jews to rely on His acts. These illustrate God’s method in the judgment of the unbeliever. He removes hindrances–no earthly acquisitions interfere with the decisions of the heart, for both heaven and earth flee from the face of Him Who sits on the throne. He works the greatest possible miracle, by raising them from the dead. He reads the inmost secret of their hearts. He appears in their very presence in soul-dismaying splendor. They cannot doubt His power or His perfections, and no motive remains to lead them to deceive themselves.
The judgment of unbelievers takes place in the interval between the passing of this present earth and the creation of the new. Every tie which bound them to the earth has been burned up. They are the subjects of the most astounding miracle ever wrought, having been raised from the dead. They are in the presence of the Divine Majesty. Their secrets are bared to His awful gaze. The character of their judgment, being adjusted to their acts, not simply as to severity but so as to correct them, will reveal God’s purpose to save and reconcile them to Himself. This, followed by their death in the lake of fire and subsequent vivification at the consummation, is the basis of their reconciliation through the blood of the cross (Col.1:20).
The excuses offered by those who were bidden to the great supper (Luke 14:18) are all removed before the great white throne. No fields or oxen or wives will intrude between the spirit and the great Judge.
In the judgment day God will judge the hidden things of humanity (Rom.2:16). We are prone to consider this a mere exhibition of His omniscience, to facilitate the trial of the sinner and to insure his condemnation. But more than this, it cannot but have a most powerful effect on the unbeliever’s attitude toward Christ. What was it that impressed the woman of Samaria (John 4:19,29)? It was His knowledge of her hidden secrets. As a result we read that many of the Samaritans of that city believe in Him because of the woman’s word that He told her all that she had done (John 4:39).
The blessed results achieved by His exposure of the woman at Sychar’s spring will be multiplied by many millions at the great white throne. There is nothing hidden that shall not be manifested (Matt.10:26). As in Corinth, the hidden things of the unbeliever’s heart become apparent, and, falling on his face, he will worship God (1 Cor.14:25).
Perhaps no miracle wrought by our Lord and His apostles created a stronger conviction than that of raising the dead. When Lazarus was raised many of the rulers believed, and the chief priests were concerned lest all should believe on Him because of this sign (John 11:45,48). When Peter raised Dorcas it also was used to convince many who believed on the Lord. Can we imagine what conviction it must have brought to Lazarus and to Dorcas themselves, if they should have had the slightest tendency to doubt? Could there have been any stronger proof of divine power than that their very life had come back to them at the bidding of One Who is stronger than death? In the process of winning the unbeliever we judge their resurrection and final vivification to be ample to account for salvation and reconciliation entering their lives.

SAUL OF TARSUS

The apostle Paul’s case is of surpassing significance in its bearing on the salvation of unbelievers. He was the foremost of sinners, and it cannot be denied that, among men, there was no case quite as desperate as his. All question as to God’s ability to save vanishes in the light of his call on the Damascus road. The miraculous means employed in his case surely would suffice for every one of God’s enemies. And who will deny, on sober reflection, that the appalling power and glory of the august judgment session into which the unbeliever is ushered by his resurrection will be unutterably more impressive?
The apostle’s vision passed. He came back to a scene where all was as before. He alone had changed. But the unbeliever sees the power and presence of God not only in his own deliverance from death, but in all around him. The vision does not vanish. The divine presence abides.

GOD AS JUDGE

The change which eventuates in the ultimate salvation of the unbeliever is wrought, not only by his resurrection, but by the august judgment session, when he stands in the presence of Christ, with all his unbelief swept away by the awful realization of His power and the justice of His throne. We are asked, Is it possible for them to repent? Rather, we would like to know, Is it possible for them not to repent, or change their minds? We cannot conceive an unrepentant sinner before the great white throne.
God’s thoughts and man’s imaginations are nowhere more at variance than on the subject of judgment, or punishment. God is love; man is hate. David was wise when he was given the choice of fleeing before his enemies or falling into the hand of Yahweh. He uttered a great truth when he exclaimed “Le
t us fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh, for His compassions are abundant; but let me not fall into the hand of humanity.” And surely his choice was vindicated, for when the messenger was stretching out his hand in destruction toward Jerusalem, Yahweh showed Himself merciful, and said, “Enough, now hold back your hand” (2 Sam.24:10-16).

NINEVEH

Jonah went through the streets of Nineveh, crying: “Forty days more and Nineveh shall be overturned!” (Jonah 3:4). But God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and He regretted the evil He said He would do unto them. “And He did it not” (Jonah 3:10). And what did Jonah do? Was he not pleased at the success of his mission? Did he not glory in the character of His God? Alas! he was like the many today. Like Jonah, they imagine that God has a streak of hate in His character and that He wanted to destroy Nineveh to give it exercise. But He had an object in threatening its destruction. Now that they repented and the object was attained, why should He belie His character and destroy them from sheer vindictiveness? Jonah’s God was a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of much benignity, and regretting of the evil which He had threatened (Jonah 4:2).

DESTRUCTION

The thought that the resurrection and judgment of the unbeliever is only a prelude to his final “destruction” in the lake of fire must be judged by its moral effect, for it has no support whatever in the Scriptures. In the first place “destruction” (by which annihilation or extinction of being is intended), is never used of the lake of fire or of the second death. It is always used of the sinner before his resurrection at the great white throne. Those who are “destroyed” in Gehenna will be there. Those who “perished” in the wilderness and at the flood will be raised. “Destruction” is never annihilation. It never precludes resurrection and salvation. Indeed, it is a necessary precursor of salvation. The Lord came to seek and to save the “destroyed” (lost). So that, even if there were a single passage telling us that the unbeliever is “destroyed” in the second death (which there is not) we would still have every reason to believe God when He assured us that all who are dying in Adam shall be made alive in Christ (1 Cor.15:22).
Let no one suppose that we plead for the repeal of God’s word regarding the doom of the unbeliever. Far from it. But we do plead for the removal of those harsh, human perversions of His word, which seek to make Him a man like ourselves, hateful and hating one another, vindictive and vicious in our views of the so-called “penalties” of sin. We plead for a revision of our vocabulary on this important theme.
The terms destroy and destruction are so often used of irrecoverable ruin that a few examples will be given to show how far this is from the truth. The rendering “lost” is always the translation of the word for destroy. It would be the utmost folly for the Son of Mankind to seek, much less to save those who are annihilated. The lost sheep and the lost coin and the lost prodigal all had been destroyed, yet all were found and saved. Were the whole world lost or destroyed in the lake of fire, that would be no hindrance to salvation. Rather, it would be the very sphere in which alone salvation can operate. Christ cannot save anyone unless first he is destroyed, or lost.

GOD IS THE SAVIOUR

Such is the salvation of the unbeliever. It is not only in absolute accord with every passage in the word of God, but in utmost harmony with the God Who is revealed through that word. How can anyone who truly loves Him rest satisfied with less than this, the only true, the only scriptural solution?
Let those who are fond of reasoning about the destiny of the universe accept their own premises and follow them out logically and the inevitable conclusion will be a universal reconciliation. Try it and see. All will acknowledge these premises:

God is love, therefore
God is omnipotent, therefore

God is not love if He will not do all He can for His creatures, neither is He omnipotent if He is unable to save them. Both revelation and reason are arrayed against the false delusion of unending torment for the unbeliever. It degrades the sacrifice of Christ to a mere attempt to remedy an evil which it cannot cure. O, my brethren, why do you limit His love, why do you paralyze His power? Is the Christ Who saved you capable of completing His work by saving all like you? Or, if He can, why will He not?
Confess that this terrible doctrine cannot but lead you to doubt His perfections. It brings you up to a blank wall, to a pit of dense darkness. But the blessed truth opens up a glorious vista flooded with the love light of God.

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD

But, we are told, God’s justice demands judgment. There is truth in this. But if God’s justice must be displayed at the expense of His love, the extinction of the unbeliever in the lake of fire, far from forever removing an eyesore from the universe, places a blot upon His character which eternity itself can never erase. If we do not doubt His willingness to save them, then we must acknowledge His inability. If we cannot question His power, then we must limit His love, and then we endanger the very foundation on which all eternal bliss must be established.
But we do not need to rest on reason. At best, it is usually the refuge of unbelief. God has spoken, and real reason rests on His revelation. He is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of those who believe. God give us grace to glory in such a God!
In the opening chapters of Romans Paul lays the foundation on which God’s just judgment is based. He closes his indictment of mankind with these words: “. . . God’s just statute, that such as are committing them are deserving of death . . .” (Rom.1:32). As the first death cannot be the effect of any judicial procedure on God’s part, it is evident that the death penalty awaits all who come into the judgment. Whatever may be the variety and degree of the tribulation and anguish meted out to each, one common end awaits them all–the second death.

VIVIFIED IN CHRIST

But, some will ask, if they were condemned to death, how can they be raised again? What right have they to the grace and life that will be their portion? We answer, none. They will have no more claim on the ecstatic bliss of that unending day than I or you, or any believer! What right have we? None at all. But in Christ we have a perfect title to every favor. So it will be with the unbeliever. It is not written that “Even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also shall all be vivified,” but “thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified” (1 Cor.15:22). Adam’s death involves all, irrespective of their deserts. Christ’s life extends to all, apart from their personal merits.
And here is where the unbeliever learns to love God. The judgment has exposed his own unworthiness. The grace of vivification will illumine his heart with the love of God in Christ. Then shall be fulfilled God’s universal goal:

“. . . to Me will bow every knee,
And every tongue will be
acclaiming God.”

This is the method He will use to bend the stubborn knees. He will not use physical force but moral suasion. Neither will He wring out a confession of sin from every tongue. The Greek word as here used means acclaim, which involves a complete acknowledgment and acquiescence in the divine will.
The crowning and conclusive exhibition of God’s power and love toward the unbeliever awaits the consummation. The eons are past. All sin is banished. Evil is no more. The Son of God has nearly completed His mediatorial work. All the living are in perfect accord with God. Nothing remains but the conquest of death and the reconciliation of its denizens. It is the only enemy left in all God’
s universe. Then, and not till then will the vast concourse of mankind emerge from the domain of death never to enter it again. Then death will be despoiled, the last enemy laid low. Then shall all awake to live in the light and love of Him Who will have become the Saviour of all mankind.

A. E. Knoch

July 22, 2007 at 7:10 am#61061

NickHassan

Participant

Hi CO,
What was wrong with the eternal gospel?

February 21, 2012 at 2:29 am#279748

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,18:10)

Hi CO,
What was wrong with the eternal gospel?

There wasn't one.

February 21, 2012 at 5:37 am#279788

Participant

Hi ChosenOne,

What are you trying to say?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 21, 2012 at 6:05 am#279798

Participant

Hi Ed J,
Nick refers to an “Eternal Gospel”, I don't see any biblical reference of an “Eternal Gospel”.

Blessings.

February 21, 2012 at 6:50 am#279800

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 21 2012,16:05)

Hi Ed J,
Nick refers to an “Eternal Gospel”, I don't see any biblical reference of an “Eternal Gospel”.

Blessings.

Hi ChosenOne,

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them
that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; (Rev.14:6-7)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 21, 2012 at 8:11 pm#279868

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2012,16:50)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 21 2012,16:05)

Hi Ed J,
Nick refers to an “Eternal Gospel”, I don't see any biblical reference of an “Eternal Gospel”.

Blessings.

Hi ChosenOne,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed J,
Some versions have it mistranslated, the Greek word 'aion' in some versions have it misinterpeded as 'everlasting' or 'eternal'. The correct translation would be 'eon', meaning the longest period of time in scripture.
A correct translation of Rev.14:6-7 is…

6 And I perceived another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having an eonian evangel to bring to those situated on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and language and people,
7 saying with a loud voice, “Be ye afraid of God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judging came; and worship the Maker of heaven and the land and the sea and the springs of water.”
(Concordant version)

Blessings.

February 21, 2012 at 9:50 pm#279873

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 21 2012,12:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,18:10)

Hi CO,
What was wrong with the eternal gospel?

There wasn't one.

Chosen one.

This is what we must be careful of;preachers that preach; we are all fine, we all will be saved.Christ died for all.Just carry on with your lives,God understands;for he is love.Yes God is love and this is the very reason why he is getting rid of all the bad,so they will not live for ever amongst the good.
And start contaminating the good again.

Are you a preacher chosen one?

John3:16.For God so loved the world,that he gave his only begotten son,THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT—PERISH—BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

Rev20:15. And whosoever was NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE,—WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.(GONE)

Not all will be saved; satan will be no more,and his wicked children will be no more.
And this polluted earth will melt and changed into a new earth.

We all must be responsible for our actions.Satan must also be responsible,and all that loved him,must go,for the sake of the beloved ones.

Regarding the everlasting gospel: Rev.14:6.—-having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earh.—

wakeup.

February 21, 2012 at 10:19 pm#279884

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 22 2012,06:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2012,16:50)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 21 2012,16:05)

Hi Ed J,
Nick refers to an “Eternal Gospel”, I don't see any biblical reference of an “Eternal Gospel”.

Blessings.

Hi ChosenOne,

God bless
Ed J

Blessings.

Shalom Jerry,

You need to get yourself a real bible; the “AKJV Bible”. (Posts) Seventh, eighth, and ninth

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people.

1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate].

Everlasting Gospel

G#166: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)

Strong's: eternal, forever, everlasting.
NASB: eternal, eternity, forever.

B'shem, YHVH (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

February 22, 2012 at 5:24 am#279988

Participant

1Tim.4:9-11…
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Blessings.

February 22, 2012 at 6:24 am#279997

Participant

Hi Jerry,

Who is disagreeing with this verse; do you know anybody?
1 Tim 4:9-10 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in
the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 23, 2012 at 7:14 am#280149

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2012,16:24)

Hi Jerry,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed J.
Yes, most do not agree that all mankind will be saved.

Blessings.

February 24, 2012 at 1:28 am#280237

Participant

New International Version (©1984)
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
New Living Translation (©2007)
The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

I was just thinking about this verse.

2pet3:9 tells us that god does not desire/want/wish/will anyone to be destroyed, but god wants everyone to repent.

Yet, the bible makes plain that many will be destroyed. Does this mean that God doesn't necessarily get what he desires/wishes/wants?

February 24, 2012 at 2:47 am#280254

kerwin

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 24 2012,06:28)

I was just thinking about this verse.

2pet3:9 tells us that god does not desire/want/wish/will anyone to be destroyed, but god wants everyone to repent.

Yet, the bible makes plain that many will be destroyed. Does this mean that God doesn't necessarily get what he desires/wishes/wants?

David,

God cannot do evil.

He desires that all be saved but justice demands that some be destroyed.

February 24, 2012 at 4:32 am#280270

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 24 2012,12:47)

Quote (david @ Feb. 24 2012,06:28)

I was just thinking about this verse.

2pet3:9 tells us that god does not desire/want/wish/will anyone to be destroyed, but god wants everyone to repent.

Yet, the bible makes plain that many will be destroyed. Does this mean that God doesn't necessarily get what he desires/wishes/wants?

David,

God cannot do evil.

He desires that all be saved but justice demands that some be destroyed.

Hi Kerwin. My question wasn't one of 'can God do evil'? It was more of:

Doesn't God always get what he desires?

God desires all to attain to repentance. And he doesn't desire any to be destroyed. But the bible says many will be destroyed.

So does it not seem that God does not always get what he desires?

February 24, 2012 at 7:30 am#280296

Participant

Hi David.

Quote

My question wasn't one of 'can God do evil'? It was more of:

Doesn't God always get what he desires?

God desires all to attain to repentance. And he doesn't desire any to be destroyed. But the bible says many will be destroyed.

So does it not seem that God does not always get what he desires?

Some scripture from Isaiah that you may find interesting…

Isaiah 46:10…Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.

46:11…Indeed I speak! Indeed I will bring it about.
I formed. Indeed I will do it.

Another scripture that may interest you.

Isaiah 45:7 Former of light and creator of darkness,
Maker of good and creator of evil.
I,Ieue Alueim, made all of these things.

Blessings.

February 24, 2012 at 12:02 pm#280305

journey42

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 24 2012,14:32)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 24 2012,12:47)

Quote (david @ Feb. 24 2012,06:28)

I was just thinking about this verse.

2pet3:9 tells us that god does not desire/want/wish/will anyone to be destroyed, but god wants everyone to repent.

Yet, the bible makes plain that many will be destroyed. Does this mean that God doesn't necessarily get what he desires/wishes/wants?

David,

God cannot do evil.

He desires that all be saved but justice demands that some be destroyed.

Hi Kerwin. My question wasn't one of 'can God do evil'? It was more of:

Doesn't God always get what he desires?

God desires all to attain to repentance. And he doesn't desire any to be destroyed. But the bible says many will be destroyed.

So does it not seem that God does not always get what he desires?

Hi David

That is just God showing us that he has no respect of persons. The doorway is opened to anyone, so the invitation goes out to all.

God knows the end in the beginning. He would like everyone to repent….why wouldn't he? but he already knows it is not going to happen.

In the end he does get everything he desires. A kingdom filled with children who choose to partake
…..and evil destroyed forever.

February 25, 2012 at 5:59 am#280471

Participant

Quote

He would like everyone to repent….why wouldn't he? but he already knows it is not going to happen.

In the end he does get everything he desires.

Hi Journey. I have said the same thing over the years. But you said:

He would like (or desires) everyone to repent.
It's not going to happen.
He gets everything he desires (or likes).

Do you see why I am asking this question. I just found it interesting that he desires/wants/wills that everyone should be saved and repent. Yet, we know that this isn't going to happen. So, it seems God will not get what he desires/wants. Seems weird to say that, but it seems unquestionably true. Doesn't it? Or am I missing something.

February 26, 2012 at 8:49 pm#280882

Participant

Hi David.
See the following verses in 1 Cor:15:21-28… This is what it will be at the “Consummation”, the completion of His (Gods) creation.

21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead.
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

Blessings.

February 27, 2012 at 1:11 am#281015