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David,
you know what, I don't think my salvation will be affected by partaking in sabbath, nor my tithing. No matter how you catorgize a person in a denomination, I just want to be his chosen, his child, sister to Christ.
are we not to be set apart from the world instead of blending right in?
much love to you and yours david.
Hi David:
Quote Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law Quote Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Quote Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.As for the Sabbath, if you had a business would it be an act of love, to give your employees a day off so that they could rest, and so that they might spend time with their family, and have some time to go to church and congregate with fellow believers and worship God?
Also, where then does the JW teaching of “no blood transfussions” enter into all of this. Is that an act of love?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote As for the Sabbath, 94, I think I already asked you this and you didn't answer me. If you are still under the law, and the law states that someone who doesn't uphold the sabbath is to be stoned, how many people have you stoned?
Secondly, while not under law, the principle of the sabbath still holds. All the reasons behind the sabbath still stand. Taking time to rest and worship is a great thing. But the law itself was “abolished.”
Quote (david @ Feb. 17 2009,17:18) Quote As for the Sabbath, 94, I think I already asked you this and you didn't answer me. If you are still under the law, and the law states that someone who doesn't uphold the sabbath is to be stoned, how many people have you stoned?
Secondly, while not under law, the principle of the sabbath still holds. All the reasons behind the sabbath still stand. Taking time to rest and worship is a great thing. But the law itself was “abolished.”
Hi David:I agree that we are not under the Law and that the Sabbath is a principle, but not the Law has not been abolished. God's Law is eternal.
I have stoned as many as Jesus did when the Pharisees brought the woman who they supposedly caught in the act of Adultery, and he answered them saying,
Quote He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her Does that mean that the commandment that states that we should not commit adultery has been abolished?
He said to her, woman has no man condemned you? Neither do I condemn you “go and sin no more”.
Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to all that believe in Jesus, but does not abolish the law, we establish the law through love.
Quote Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Does that mean that the commandment that states that we should not commit adultery has been abolished? Yes, the Bible states that the Mosaic Law, the law covenant, has been “abolished.”
Jesus taught in principles. Principles require more thought and a more spiritual heart. It is easier to follow laws. Would godly principles allow you to practice adultery?
Let's see: “love of neighbor.”
“do to others as you'd have them to do you.”
etc.Nope, godly principles do not allow for adultery.
Quote Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to all that believe in Jesus, but does not abolish the law, we establish the law through love. eph 2:15:
“by abolishing the law of commandments.” (ESV)
“by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments” (NAS)What was the purpose of the law?–To lead them to Christ, showing “the son's of Israel” (exodus) that they were imperfect.
Who was the law given to?–Very specifically, the sons of Israel.
What was the law covenant?– A covenant is an agreement between two parties.
Did the Israelites keep the agreement?–They “broke” it.
How long was it to last?–While many Bibles translate it “forever” that word can and is translated a number of way. IT basically means an indefinite period of time.
Quote Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.There is of course, another sabbath that we keep. But it's not one of the many law covenant sabbaths.
Hi David:
You ask:
Quote What was the purpose of the law?–To lead them to Christ, showing “the son's of Israel” (exodus) that they were imperfect. The purpose of the law was that Israel would know when they had sinned so that they could repent.
Quote Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. Quote Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. And by God's law, the ten commandents, is still knowledge of sin, but we are not under the law but under grace, and the scripture states:
Quote Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Yes, Israel as well as all of us have broken God's law, and by the law is knowledge of sin, but we are not under the curse of the law because of what God has done for us through His Son and our Lord Jesus. Nevertheless, God's law is eternal. By the law is still knowledge of sin.
Quote 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Is that an act of love? –94
“For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments;”
94,
Quote ou ask: Quote
“What was the purpose of the law?–To lead them to Christ, showing “the son's of Israel” (exodus) that they were imperfect.”–david“The purpose of the law was that Israel would know when they had sinned so that they could repent.”–94
GALATIANS 3:19
“Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed [Christ] should arrive…”(When I used the word “imperfect” I meant “sinners.” To sin is to miss the mark of perfection.)
GALATIANS 3:24-25
“Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ,…”The purpose of the law was to lead them to Christ (exactly as I said) and to make sins apparent until Christ would arrive (make it apparent that they were sinners [imperfect], just as I said.)
It showed they were sinful and were in need of something. The two verses specifically say just what I said. (But I should have used the word “sinners” instead of “imperfect” although in my mind, they mean the same.
Quote Nevertheless, God's law is eternal. –94
HEBREWS 8:7-13
“For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; for he does find fault with the people when he says: “‘Look! There are days coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers in [the] day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant, so that I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah.” “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.They “broke” the agreement. Fault was found with it. The word your Bible translates “forever” or “eternal” doesn't actually mean those things. It can mean those things, but in itself, does not mean them.
Quote (david @ Feb. 20 2009,15:43) 94, Quote ou ask: Quote
“What was the purpose of the law?–To lead them to Christ, showing “the son's of Israel” (exodus) that they were imperfect.”–david“The purpose of the law was that Israel would know when they had sinned so that they could repent.”–94
GALATIANS 3:19
“Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed [Christ] should arrive…”(When I used the word “imperfect” I meant “sinners.” To sin is to miss the mark of perfection.)
GALATIANS 3:24-25
“Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ,…”The purpose of the law was to lead them to Christ (exactly as I said) and to make sins apparent until Christ would arrive (make it apparent that they were sinners [imperfect], just as I said.)
It showed they were sinful and were in need of something. The two verses specifically say just what I said. (But I should have used the word “sinners” instead of “imperfect” although in my mind, they mean the same.
Hi David:Quote 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
It appears to me based on these scriptures that sin is still the transgression of the law.
Quote Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of libertyOf course the following was abolished through the sacrifice of Christ:
Quote Hbr 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hbr 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hbr 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
Hbr 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Love in Christ,
Martydo you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death or of obedience to rightousness? but thanks to YAH that you were servants of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that from of teaching to which you were entrusted.
romans 6.16/17
Hi David:
Quote For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people. Does this say that the law was abolished or does it now mean that God dwells within us teaching us his law by His Spirit?
Now if you are saying that the Old Coventant has been abolished. Of Course, that is what the Word of God states.
Quote Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 21 2009,15:03) Hi 94,
US of course only relating to those in Christ.
Yes, of course.Quote
So tell me if you could just for reference, what parts of scripture don't apply to you.–WOB
All scripture is beneficial for us. All scripture tells us what God is thinking, what he likes and dislikes. But certain things were plainly for the Israelites:
4TH commandment, along with introduction to 10 commandments:
“I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. . . . Remembering the sabbath day to hold it sacred, you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work.” (Ex. 20:2, 8-10)Note the way that the 4th Commandment reads at Deuteronomy 5:12-15: “Keeping the sabbath day to hold it sacred, . . . you must remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and Jehovah your God proceeded to bring you out from there with a strong hand and an outstretched arm. THAT IS WHY Jehovah your God commanded you to carry on the sabbath day.”
In the actual law itself, we are here told “why” it was given to them. So that they could remember that they were slaves, and that Jehovah freed them. It was a sign and reminder that Jehovah was sanctifying them.In fact, this sabbath law was to be a sign between Jehovah and whom? Only Israel.
EXODUS 31:13
“Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘Especially my sabbaths you are to keep, for it is a sign between me and you during your generations that you may know that I Jehovah am sanctifying you.’” (Compare Ezekiel 20:10-12.)EXODUS 31:16,17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.”
Why? The sabbath didn't exist before the law covenant. It was clearly part of the law.
If the law was given to Israel, for Israel, an agreement between Israel and God, that was broken and found fault with, so abolished, and done away with, and nailed to the stake, whereby a new covenant was created, then the sabbath being a part of the the law, is affected just as the law is.
“I am Jehovah your God, who have brought YOU OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, out of the house of slaves. . . . REMEMBERING THE SABBATH DAY to hold it sacred, you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. YOU MUST NOT do any work.” (Ex. 20:2, 8-10)
Note the way that the 4th Commandment reads at Deuteronomy 5:12-15:
“Keeping the sabbath day to hold it sacred, . . . YOU MUST REMEMBER that YOU became a slave in the land of Egypt and Jehovah your God proceeded to bring you out from there with a strong hand and an outstretched arm. T H A T I S W H Y Jehovah your God COMMANDED Y O U to carry on the sabbath day.”
In the actual law itself, we are here told “why” it was given to them. So that they could remember that they were slaves, and that Jehovah freed them. It was a sign and reminder that Jehovah was sanctifying them.
In fact, this sabbath law was to be a sign between Jehovah and whom? Only Israel.
EXODUS 31:13
“Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘Especially my sabbaths you are to keep, for it is a sign between me and you during your generations that you may know that I Jehovah am sanctifying you.’” (Compare Ezekiel 20:10-12.)EXODUS 31:16,17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.”
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