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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 12 2007,15:18) kenrch You say…
Quote
Of course Paul speaks of the Sabbath in Col. 2:16 as “was a shadow of things to come” Because the Sabbath in verse 16 is speaking of “annual” Sabbaths and not the forth Commandment of God.Ken it dosnt just say “the sabbath was a shadow of things to come”
It says that Christ is the “reality” of it. He is the Fulfillment of the rest. He is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.Col 2:16 NLT
So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies **or Sabbaths, (sabbaton)**.
17 For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself.Col 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.It dosnt say “Anual sabbaths” either. Its simply speaking of “Holy days”.
Again, the Greek word for “Sabbath” in Col 2:16 is 'sabbaton', which means;
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
b) a single sabbath, sabbath day
2) seven days, a week
Its the only word used for the seventh day sabbath in the greek NT.
Paul uses this word Col 2:16 speaking of it as a shadow of the real thing which is Christ.
We are to cease from our own labours!
Matt 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.Kenrch, can you show us where Jesus or the Apostles of the NT ever taught the keepng of the “Sabbath”.
The first epistle of John is full of the term “This is my commandment”, “A new commandment” etc. yet never mention the word “Sabbath”
The Sabbath is now a spiritual law that is fullfilled in Jesus who is the Lord of the Sabbath!
The Sabbath is now kept by every born again believer who has by faith found their rest in him!
The Kingdom of God is within us!
The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.
It has nothing to do with our own works or our physical rest.
It is experienced by faith in the King of the Kingdom who lives in us!
WJ how many commandments are there? Are you saying you don't have to keep the commandments?Just what are you saying WJ?
Do you EVER sin?
What is sin WJ?
What are the wages of sin WJ?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
You don't want to keep His Commandments then don't. And BY all means teach others they don't have to keep His Commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
What commandments is the above scripture speaking about?
Tell us WJ What Coimmandments is the above scripture speaking about?
Speaking of the LAST DAY saints they will be keeping the commandments of God.
What ARE the Commandments of GOD WJ?
Ken The Royal Law the New Covenant and the Commandments that Jesus gave us. Love God with all of your Heart and your neighbor as thyself.
T H E S E A R E T H E G R E A T E S T C O M M A N D M E N T O F A LLAnd He magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount that is what the New Covenant is
Read the scripture that you like to quote it says
Rev. 14:12 ….. and the faith of Jesus.
You show me where in the New Testament that the Sabbath is being taught like you want us to keep it?
On the contrary Paul says not to judge about Sabbaths and Holy Days. Then He says one esteem one day another esteems everyday alike. He has also said that we should not stop meeting like some have( that shows that some were not keeping the Sabbath) but for the fellowship and to encourage each other we should meet.But again I have nothing against the Sabbath, if you want to keep the Sabbath that is up to you. Just remember if you think that you are sinning if you don't keep it, you are putting yourself under the Law and you have to keep the whole Law cause you have fallen from Grace.
Again I wish you would consider and do a study on the Covenants that God made with different people.
I believe you have been brainwashed by that last chance organization and you are scared out of your wits. That is why you are bringing that Tape up again and again.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 12 2007,14:30) Hi All: Quote 4:4
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh * * day from all his works.
4:5
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein *, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
4:7
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
4:8
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.The following quotes are taken from JFB commentary for your consideration:
Quote his rest–God's heavenly rest, of which Canaan is the type. “To-day” still continues, during which there is the danger of failing to reach the rest. “To-day,” rightly used, terminates in the rest which, when once obtained, is never lost (Revelation 3:12). A foretaste of the rest Is given in the inward rest which the believer's soul has in Christ. Quote Although God had finished His works of creation and entered on His rest from creation long before Moses' time, yet under that leader of Israel another rest was promised, which most fell short of through unbelief; and although the rest in Canaan was subsequently attained under Joshua, yet long after, in David's days, God, in the ninety-fifth Psalm, still speaks of the rest of God as not yet attained. THEREFORE, there must be meant a rest still future, namely, that which “remaineth for the people of God” in heaven, Hebrews 4:3-9, when they shall rest from their works, as God did from His, Hebrews 4:10. The argument is to show that by “My rest,” God means a future rest, not for Himself, but for us Quote remaineth–still to be realized hereafter by the “some (who) must enter therein” (Hebrews 4:6), that is, “the people of God,” the true Israel who shall enter into God's rest (“My rest,” Hebrews 4:3). God's rest was a Sabbatism; so also will ours be.
a rest–Greek, “Sabbatism.” In time there are many Sabbaths, but then there shall be the enjoyment and keeping of a Sabbath-rest: one perfect and eternal. The “rest” in Hebrews 4:8 is Greek, “catapausis;” Hebrew, “Noah”; rest from weariness, as the ark rested on Ararat after its tossings to and fro; and as Israel, under Joshua, enjoyed at last rest from war in Canaan. But the “rest” in this Hebrews 4:9 is the nobler and more exalted (Hebrew) “Sabbath” rest; literally, “cessation”: rest from work when finished (Hebrews 4:4), as God rested (Revelation 16:17). The two ideas of “rest” combined, give the perfect view of the heavenly Sabbath. Rest from weariness, sorrow, and sin; and rest in the completion of God's new creation (Revelation 21:5). The whole renovated creation shall share in it; nothing will there be to break the Sabbath of eternity; and the Triune God shall rejoice in the work of His hands (Zephaniah 3:17). Moses, the representative of the law, could not lead Israel into Canaan: the law leads us to Christ, and there its office ceases, as that of Moses on the borders of Canaan: it is Jesus, the antitype of Joshua, who leads us into the heavenly rest. This verse indirectly establishes the obligation of the Sabbath still; for the type continues until the antitype supersedes it: so legal sacrifices continued till the great antitypical Sacrifice superseded it, AS THEN THE ANTITYPICAL HEAVENLY SABBATH-REST WILL NOT BE TILL CHRIST, OUR GOSPEL JOSHUA, COMES, TO USHER US INTO IT, THE TYPICAL EARTHLY SABBATH MUST CONTINUE TILL THEN. THE JEWS CALL THE FUTURE REST “THE DAY WHICH IS ALL SABBATH.”I believe that Ken is correct by stating that we should obey God's commandments including the Forth Commandment, but whatever we do as born again believers in the body of Christ we do out of love for God and for humanity. And as I have already stated, I believe that it is the principle of resting on the seventh day after six consequtive days of work that is emphasized rather than the specific day. In the society that I live the work week begins on Monday and unless I start my own business so that I can start my work week on Sunday, I do not believe that I am going to find a job so that I can begin my work week on Sunday. I also mentioned that there were people in professions like Phyiscian, Policeman, Nurse, Fireman. These people usually work shift work and their labor is required every day of the week, but of course, they should rest from their labor. The body and the soul get tired. The day of rest should also be a day of sacred assembly, and as KJ mentioned Christian Assemblies that meet on Saturdays in our society are hard to find.
Jesus states:
Quote Matt. 22:37
* Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38
This is the first and great commandment.
22:39
And the second is like unto it *, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.We are not to be in bondage the day and Jesus is the judge of who violates the Sabbath Law:
Quote Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
2:28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.And about the sacred assembly the scripture states:
Quote Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; * (for he is faithful that promised;)
10:24
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.God Bless
Hebrews 4:9 the definition and historySabbath in Christianity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWhile a clear mandate is given for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the closest passage to a command for Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament is found in Hebrews 4:9, which describes the Sabbath not as a day, *but instead as a state
of being, the context and grammar of the passage indicate otherwise.* In that passage is found the word “sabbatismos.” The Authorized Version (King James Version of 1611) and New King James Version and several others render that word as “rest.” The American Standard Version of 1901, New American Standard Bible 1995 Updated Edition and several other translations somewhat more correctly render that word as “Sabbath rest.” A few, such as the Darby translation, transliterate the word as “Sabbatism.” However, its literal translation is “Sabbath observance,” and The Scriptures, translated by The Institute For Scripture Research, render it as such, while The Bible in Basic English gives the equally literal “Sabbath keeping.” In regard to taking Sabbatismos literally, Professor Andrew T. Lincoln, on page 213 in his symposium From Sabbath to Lord's Day, states “The use of sabbatismos elsewhere in extant Greek literature gives an indication of its more exact shade of meaning. It is used in Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia166A) of Sabbath observance. There are also four occurrences in post canonical literature that are independent of Hebrews 4:9. They are Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2. In each of these places the term denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath. This usage corresponds to the Septuagint usage of the cognate verb sabbatizo (cf. Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34; 2 Chron. 36:21**Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding.” The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is “Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God.” Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath. In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, “For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day.” On first glance in our English translations, that word “another” would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean “another”. “Heteros” means “another of a different kind”, while “allos” means “another of the same kind”. The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is “allos”, indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term “certain day”. The Greek word for “certain” is “tis”. It is clearly referencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest. The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is “left behind”, literally, for Christians to observe.**
Because the eternal Sabbath did not happen there remains therefore a Sabbath for the PEOPLE OF GOD.
God bless,
Ken
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 12 2007,16:34) Ken The Royal Law the New Covenant and the Commandments that Jesus gave us. Love God with all of your Heart and your neighbor as thyself.
T H E S E A R E T H E G R E A T E S T C O M M A N D M E N T O F A LLAnd He magnified the Law on the Sermon on the Mount that is what the New Covenant is
Read the scripture that you like to quote it says
Rev. 14:12 ….. and the faith of Jesus.
You show me where in the New Testament that the Sabbath is being taught like you want us to keep it?
On the contrary Paul says not to judge about Sabbaths and Holy Days. Then He says one esteem one day another esteems everyday alike. He has also said that we should not stop meeting like some have( that shows that some were not keeping the Sabbath) but for the fellowship and to encourage each other we should meet.But again I have nothing against the Sabbath, if you want to keep the Sabbath that is up to you. Just remember if you think that you are sinning if you don't keep it, you are putting yourself under the Law and you have to keep the whole Law cause you have fallen from Grace.
Again I wish you would consider and do a study on the Covenants that God made with different people.
I believe you have been brainwashed by that last chance organization and you are scared out of your wits. That is why you are bringing that Tape up again and again.Peace and Love Mrs.
Mrs I think I have been trying to get the Sabbath across L O N G before I even Knew about this organization. In fact it was Debra who discovered it.Quote But again I have nothing against the Sabbath, if you want to keep the Sabbath that is up to you. OK so what is your beef! You say what you don't mean and mean what you don't say.
I told you think what you will. I can't be concerned about what men think especially in these last days when they will have gathered teachers in accordance with own desires.
All these petty arguments WHY because you have NO scripture that says we can break the commandments of God.
There are NONE! Not a one!
Except may be this one:
Quote Rev. 14:12 ….. and the faith of Jesus. Which isn't even half of the scripture.
I do believe I quoted the “whole” scripture
What do the saints do Mrs?
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
What are you going to do with those saints that keep the commandments of God?
Mrs it is scripture… I'm NOT making anything UP!
Peace and Love,
Ken
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 12 2007,15:18) kenrch You say…
Quote
Of course Paul speaks of the Sabbath in Col. 2:16 as “was a shadow of things to come” Because the Sabbath in verse 16 is speaking of “annual” Sabbaths and not the forth Commandment of God.Ken it dosnt just say “the sabbath was a shadow of things to come”
It says that Christ is the “reality” of it. He is the Fulfillment of the rest. He is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.Col 2:16 NLT
So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies **or Sabbaths, (sabbaton)**.
17 For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself.Col 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.It dosnt say “Anual sabbaths” either. Its simply speaking of “Holy days”.
Again, the Greek word for “Sabbath” in Col 2:16 is 'sabbaton', which means;
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
b) a single sabbath, sabbath day
2) seven days, a week
Its the only word used for the seventh day sabbath in the greek NT.
Paul uses this word Col 2:16 speaking of it as a shadow of the real thing which is Christ.
We are to cease from our own labours!
Matt 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.Kenrch, can you show us where Jesus or the Apostles of the NT ever taught the keepng of the “Sabbath”.
The first epistle of John is full of the term “This is my commandment”, “A new commandment” etc. yet never mention the word “Sabbath”
The Sabbath is now a spiritual law that is fullfilled in Jesus who is the Lord of the Sabbath!
The Sabbath is now kept by every born again believer who has by faith found their rest in him!
The Kingdom of God is within us!
The Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.
It has nothing to do with our own works or our physical rest.
It is experienced by faith in the King of the Kingdom who lives in us!
WJ scripture says Jesus fulfilled the law concerning Himself.Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.The sacrifical law of Moses the feasts, the moons, the drink, the holy day and the sabbathS that went with those feasts.
The ORDNANCES:
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;Those feasts days were shadow of Jesus who was to come.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
God wrote TEN Commandments and that's all. Those laws which He wrote were placed Inside the ark while the Law Moses wrote was placed “on the side” of the ark.
Why were Ten commandments written in stone and the other laws written in a book. Did God get writers cramp?
God bless,
Ken
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 12 2007,14:30) I believe that Ken is correct by stating that we should obey God's commandments including the Forth Commandment, but whatever we do as born again believers in the body of Christ we do out of love for God and for humanity. And as I have already stated, I believe that it is the principle of resting on the seventh day after six consequtive days of work that is emphasized rather than the specific day. In the society that I live the work week begins on Monday and unless I start my own business so that I can start my work week on Sunday, I do not believe that I am going to find a job so that I can begin my work week on Sunday. I also mentioned that there were people in professions like Phyiscian, Policeman, Nurse, Fireman. These people usually work shift work and their labor is required every day of the week, but of course, they should rest from their labor. The body and the soul get tired. The day of rest should also be a day of sacred assembly, and as KJ mentioned Christian Assemblies that meet on Saturdays in our society are hard to find.
This sounds like freedom to me, brother!2 Corinthians 3:7-18 [quoted in part, but it's all gooood]:
Now the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone…….For what was glorious has no glory now…….Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold…..we are not like Moses…..In Christ it is taken away….Now the Lord is the spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom……
It's worth repeating……
The engraved letters (10 Commandments) brought death.
What was glorious has no glory now.
We are not like Moses.Christ has taken it away.
Christ has given us freedom.FREEDOM. Praise the Father, and holy is the name of our dear Lord in heaven!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2007,04:40) It's worth repeating…… The engraved letters (10 Commandments) brought death.
What was glorious has no glory now.
We are not like Moses.Christ has taken it away.
Christ has given us freedom.FREEDOM. Praise the Father, and holy is the name of our dear Lord in heaven!
not3Amen to that.
But they that will be under the law rather than walking in the Spirit must keep the whole law!
Rom 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.The Law of “The Spirit of life” has made us free from the law of sin and death.
Of course when we are walking in the Spirit we are fulfilling the Law.
The Sabbath rest is a spiritual law now. found in our ceasing from our own fleshly, carnal works. Living in the Spirit of life is freedom from the outward observances of the law. For it is now by the New Commandment which is of the heart, the New Covenat of his body and his blood!
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.We are no longer under the supervision of the Law.
Faith or Observance of the Law
Gal 3:
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing–if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?6 Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” [fn1] 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” [fn2] 9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” [fn3] 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” [fn4] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” [fn5] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” [fn6] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ [fn8] that we might be justified by faith. 25 *Now that faith has come*, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Paul calls men foolish who want to turn back to the law after recieving the Spirit by faith.
3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
The commandment that we have under the New Covenant of Grace is…
1 Jn 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.All the law and the prophets hang on this.
Under the New Covenant there is a higher law than the keeping of the Old.
Jesus said…
Matt 5:
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.Matt 5:27
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.Here is some interesting points…
The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!
1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection – Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18
2). To two disciples going to Emmaus – Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13
3). To Simon (Peter) – Luke 24:31-35.
4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday – Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23
5). To the Eleven disciples “Eight days later” – John 20:26-29
Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.
When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.
1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).
2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).
3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their “eyes were opened and they recognized Him” (Luke 24:31).
4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying “Peace be with you” (John 20:20; 26).
5). That same Sunday evening Jesus “…breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'” John 20:22.
6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).
https://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx
But of course Ken would say these scriptural truths are of the harlot!
WJ and Mandy That is what the New Covenant is all about. We are not under what Moses was commanded on Mount Sinai. We are under the Commandments that Jesus gave us, and I have given them over and over again, but it seems that not one of you has agreed with me. Even tho we are free in Jesus and are under His Blood, it does not mean that we are without any Law, on the contrary Jesus teaches us on the Sermon on the Mount how we should live. The road is steep He says and few will find it. I have pondered that statement so often lately. What do you think He means by that? Is it living in the spirit that is so hard to do, that is to a certain degree, but if one has a lot of time on hand , it is maybe 75% true. We still have to live in this rotten society and it is full of sin and that makes it so much harder. I do paint a bleak Picture, but is that not reality. I hope you can follow me what I am trying to say. Since I have very little responsibility now I am at Peace in the Spirit with Christ and the Father, but not all can do that, I am aware of that. I see our children struggle against the power of the air, Satan. The one thing I can still do is pray, pray, pray.
Another thought has just come to me, just because Sin is not imputed to us, we still have to repent of our Sins. I know that some are saying, once forgiven always forgiven, but is that automatic? I don't think so, we still have to repent of a sin. And if we sin against a Brother we have to go to Him and ask for forgiveness. Some to consider! Love you Brothers and Sisters!With Peace and Love Mrs.:D
I agree that we are under Christ's Law, although, like Paul, we are not free from God's Law. What this means to me is that while we are under grace, God has also written on our hearts his Law. In other words, we know not to kill or steal, these are things that are written on our hearts. The scriptures even tell us that no longer will we teach someone to know the LORD, for his law will already be on his heart. So, are the 10 Commandments done away with? I'm beginning to believe this is true. Scripture seems to point to these laws written in stone as being a thing of the past – the glory that was fading from Moses so that he wore a veil to conceal the passing of the former glory. Who is the new glory? Christ Jesus and our salvation through faith, not of ourselves.
To love God and our neighbor is “Christ's” law, and “God's” laws are written on our hearts (do not kill, steal, honor your parents and so on). We are no longer held to the letter of the law that is written in stone. Ken, this means that we are no longer held to the 10 Commandments!! Those that God felt were important enough to pass on, he wrote on our hearts (and we must obey them). The rest is summed up this way: Love God. Love people. It's that simple.
I was expecting bondage as I began my study on the Sabbath. I was expecting to have to figure out all the Feasts and what to cook and eat and how to act, and what I would have to give up and change……..none of that has happened. In fact, I have found more freedom in Christ than I ever thought possible. In fact, God's gift has been magnified in my life. Some would teach that you really can't begin to understand some things until you get the Feasts and what they mean; well, for me and what the Spirit has taught me, this is has not been the case (thankfully).
I have been given freedom in Christ Jesus. I will not go backwards and allow myself to be a slave again; if I did, Jesus would have died for nothing. I was bought with a price. I will honor God and his Son with my life and obedience……..but I do not have to be a slave to the things and teachings of the OT that were meant for those under Law. Those teachings brought death. They were a shadow of the glorious work accomplished in Christ, God's Son. The day we live in now is one of grace and freedom – we live in the favor of God. We no longer need to DO anything to bring about our salvation.
The Father is not more pleased with us because we participate in things that our forefather's did (sleeping in tents and so on), I suppose if one wanted to participate in these things as a memorial from where we've come, that is fine, but it certainly doesn't bring “favor” from on High, and it certainly is not a command or teaching of our Lord. God is pleased with us because we have accepted his Son and because we have believed on his name. There is nothing more to DO than that.
I think that Catholic's enjoy their religion a great deal because there seems to be a lot to DO. There are masses, the rosary, praying to all the Saints, praying for all the dead people, the holy water thing, the confessional booths and so on….there is a lot to DO. I think it makes them feel like they are OK because they are DOING so much to honor God (read: to be in right standing with God). Some even believe they are saved because they go to Mass twice on Sunday and all during the week – they repeat the Rosary and participate in all the prayers…….but do they know Jesus as their Lord? Do they love God and their neighbor? What if you were to tell a Catholic that that was ALL they had to DO in order to make the Father happy and be saved? I doubt they would believe you. The reason is, we feel more secure in our faith if we are checking off a list of things to DO in order to be saved. Is this true faith?
Obeying the Commandments would be all too easy. In fact, we obey the majority of them without even thinking. Changing worship from Sunday to Saturday wouldn't even be a huge deal to most of us. Is this all we would need to DO? Is that it? Even Ken has said, “What is the big deal?” and he would be correct. There is no big deal. We could obey all the 10 Commandments and still be no better off than we are if we didn't follow every rule. Christ died once and for all. He accomplished everything there is to DO now and in the future. No more commandments except what God has written on our hearts, and what Jesus has commanded us to do. This is what I have found up to today. Sorry for the long post, but I happen to have a bit of time here and wanted to get this all down.
To any takers,
Somewhere along the line I asked this, but is there anything wrong with observing the Sabbath during the traditional times (Friday sunset – Saturday sunset) but worshiping on Sunday? I cannot find any scripture that says that the Sabbath is to be set aside for worship, only as a day of rest. So I can theoretically go fishing and wash my car on Sunday after church becuase it is not the Sabbath, but I would refrain from doing such on the Sabbath.
Here is another one for you: if you observe the Sabbath, do you watch sports on that day?
Hi KJ:
You say:
Quote I cannot find any scripture that says that the Sabbath is to be set aside for worship, only as a day of rest. The following scripture states that the Sabbath is a Holy Convocation. Would this mean that the day is set aside for rest and worship?
Quote Leviticus 23:3
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.Since I observe by Sabbath on Sunday, I will let someone who observes the Sabbath on Saturday answer to the rest of your post.
God Bless
94,
Thanks. A convocation is an assembly of some sort, so perhaps. Some commentaries say it is to be a family assembly, so this would lean towards having a time of family study and worship? But I'm considering corporate worship with other believer outside of blood family.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2007,04:40) It's worth repeating…… The engraved letters (10 Commandments) brought death.
What was glorious has no glory now.
We are not like Moses.Christ has taken it away.
Christ has given us freedom.FREEDOM. Praise the Father, and holy is the name of our dear Lord in heaven!
ALRIGHT! WE CAN DO OUR THING! WE ARE FREE TO BREAK GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ALRIGHT!!!!!I think you guys need a lot of white out for the scriptures that say “KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS”
Sure under the Old Covenant their was death because their was NO forgiveness.
The same Paul who wrote what you deem freedom to sin kept the law of God.
That's why Peter said Paul's writings were hard to understand.2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
WHO ARE YOU FOOLING?
Was this the “EXCUSE” you have been searching for Mandy?
The scriptures can't be any plainer or clearer. NO! YOU choose to NOT see! You choose to disobey! You choose to live by the flesh and the Harlot! Right WJ?
Mandy is so desparate that she will listen to “ANYBODY” (even WJ!) with a twisted out of context “EXCUSE” as to why she can still do her thing encluding Christmas and Easter.
I hope you have plenty of white out! That's a lot of clear, straight forward, can't be easier to understand scripture to white out of the Word of God.
My advise is to stay away from the above scriptures as you walk down the wide path.
Psa 140:7 O GOD the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my head in the day of battle.
Psa 140:8 Grant not, O LORD, the desires of the wicked: further not his wicked device; lest they exalt themselves. Selah.
Psa 140:9 As for the head of those that compass me about, let the mischief of their own lips cover them.
Psa 140:10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
Psa 140:11 Let not an evil speaker be established in the earth: evil shall hunt the violent man to overthrow him.
Psa 140:12 I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and the right of the poor.
Psa 140:13 Surely the righteous shall give thanks unto thy name: the upright shall dwell in thy presence. AMEN! And please spare me all the crying,
Ken
Hey Ken,
This is not a loaded question, it is just seeking your advice. Is it OK to watch sports that are being played during the Sabbath? Would sports be considered work? After all, there are many college football games on Saturday and high school on Friday night. If we extend it on, there are definitely people working at the games: referees, concession stand workers, coaches, etc.
What is you heart's answer? Thanks!
Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 13 2007,12:47) And please spare me all the crying,
Ken,
I have reported you to our Moderator's. I can't speak for other's here, but I certainly have had enough of your condescending/abusive/personal attacking behavior (which you call sharing the truth). For crying out loud man, you are supposed to be a Christian!I have warned you three times now (which is more than scripture encourages), and now I will have nothing to do with you! You are a divisive man and I will continue to keep you in my prayers.
MandyKen
You have been rude to Kejonn, you have been rude to elaine who even left, I have not seen hear post in how long, you have been rude to Mandy and you have been rude to me, to say the least. Yes and the chosenone she left too, because of you, when are you going to wake up. You aplogized and went right back to what you did before. Why did you even give an apology? Like I said before I will too pray for you.Peace and Love Mrs.
Mrs,
Actually, I was rude to Chosenone in some sense, and that person left during an exchange with me, not Ken. So don't lay that one at Ken's feet
.Ken:
I am not a moderator, but the way that I see this is that there is not excuse for this kind of verbal abuse in your post to Mandy. I believe that you need take a good look at yourself and repent. It is a good thing that you are striving to obey the commandments of our God, but it appears that you have exalted yourself to the postion of judge. If you give your undestanding of the scriptures, and others do not understand the way that you do, you cannot force them to accept what you say as the truth, even if you think that you are backing up what you say by scripture. If you are right and you have given us the truth and we do not accept it, you have done what the Lord has required you to do. Is there any possibility that you can be wrong? Everybody else is wrong and you are right seems to be your attitude. I am putting this issue of your judging others in the hands of the Lord. I and others have shown you that this was wrong, and you continue to do it, and so, following the procedure in Matthew 18, the ultimate authority is the Lord, and I am submitting this issue to him. All of us have faults that we have to overcome, and if the Lord sees this as one of yours, as I do, perhaps he will show you so that you can repent.
God Bless
Ken and Keyonn I am sorry I thought that was Ken, so scratch that one, Ken. I am just so sad about all of this, and I wish with all of my heart that things will straighten out. 942767 you are right we all make mistakes, but we are to do away with the faults we have. I just can't understand how He can be so sorry when He did it before and then goes right back to it, and thinks He is only teaching us!
Hope and pray that this can be resolved.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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