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Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,16:48) Hi abe,
Christ was the root as what? The source of Jesse?
Hi LU,Revelation 22:16 NIV
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”Peace sister..
Yes abe, Jesus is the root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.
What do you think that it means for Jesus to be the root of David?
Christ is the root because why?
Thanks.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,18:33) Yes abe, Jesus is the root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star. What do you think that it means for Jesus to be the root of David?
Christ is the root because why?
Thanks.
Hi LU,Gal.3:16 Now to Abraham and his SEED were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of ONE, And to thy SEED, which is Christ.
1Pet.1:23 for you have been born again not of SEED which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring WORD of God.
Lk.8:11 “Now the parable is this: the SEED is the WORD of God.
The seed of Abraham is the WORD of God. Jn.1:1
The word was God. That does not say IS God.
Peace sister……
The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David.
I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,19:22) The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David. I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.
Hi LU,How did Christianity BEGIN?
Peace sister.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,09:22) The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David. I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.
LU,Try this reason.
Isaiah 37:31
King James Version (KJV)31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,19:22) The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David. I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.
Hi LU and Kerwin,Jn.12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Peace.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,23:00) abe,
Please answer my question with a plain and direct answer before asking another question. Thx
bump for abe.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,11:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,23:00) abe,
Please answer my question with a plain and direct answer before asking another question. Thx
bump for abe.
Hi LU,I just looked over some past posts.
Christ lived before Jesus, Christ is the ROOT. You have to believe that Christ pre-existed Jesus? Yes.
Peace sister.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 05 2013,23:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,09:22) The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David. I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.
LU,Try this reason.
Isaiah 37:31
King James Version (KJV)31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Hi Kerwin,
That verse seems to speak of the remnant once again diligently seeking their LORD creator and bearing fruit because of spiritual growth. Do you agree Kerwin?But what is the root of Jesse from Isaiah 11:
1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord—
3and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
5Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
6The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearlinga together;
and a little child will lead them.
7The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest.
9They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
10[/B]In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. [/B]11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt,b from Cush,c from Elam, from Babylonia,d from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
Jesus says in Rev 22 that He is the root and offspring of David and in Rev 5, He is called the root of David. Isaiah 11 speaks of the Root of Jesse and says that from the roots a branch will bear fruit. The branch is Jesus in the flesh as a descendant of Jesse/David. What are the roots symbolic for? The roots are something that sends the Branch yet the Branch and the Root are both Jesus. Why are 'roots' plural (verse 1) then singular (verse 10)?
Rev 22 16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star. ”
Rev 5 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,14:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,11:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,23:00) abe,
Please answer my question with a plain and direct answer before asking another question. Thx
bump for abe.
Hi LU,I just looked over some past posts.
Christ lived before Jesus, Christ is the ROOT. You have to believe that Christ pre-existed Jesus? Yes.
Peace sister.
Hi abe,
I do believe that Jesus existed before He came in the flesh. He was God, the Word, with God, in the beginning. As God, the Word, with God in the beginning, He was called the Word of the LORD. As the Word, all things were made through Him, so in that way I would say He was the 'root' of Jesse. I think of Him as Christ after He came in the flesh and therefore He is Christ as the 'shoot' and not the 'root.' I could be wrong on this or maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, He was the root of Jesse before coming in the flesh because all things were made through Him. Imo.Would you agree?
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:01) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,14:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,11:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 05 2013,23:00) abe,
Please answer my question with a plain and direct answer before asking another question. Thx
bump for abe.
Hi LU,I just looked over some past posts.
Christ lived before Jesus, Christ is the ROOT. You have to believe that Christ pre-existed Jesus? Yes.
Peace sister.
Hi abe,
I do believe that Jesus existed before He came in the flesh. He was God, the Word, with God, in the beginning. As God, the Word, with God in the beginning, He was called the Word of the LORD. As the Word, all things were made through Him, so in that way I would say He was the 'root' of Jesse. I think of Him as Christ after He came in the flesh and therefore He is Christ as the 'shoot' and not the 'root.' I could be wrong on this or maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, He was the root of Jesse before coming in the flesh because all things were made through Him. Imo.Would you agree?
Hi LU,You say God created all things THROUGH himself??
Peace sister…
abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,01:45) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 05 2013,23:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,09:22) The seed that Gal 3:16 was referring to is a descendant of Abraham through David and through Mary-Jesus Christ as man. That parallels the 'shoot' or 'offspring' of Jesse/David. That doesn't parallel the 'root' of Jesse/David. I am asking about the 'root' of Jesse.
Why is the Son of God the 'root' of Jesse in your opinion.
I am not asking why the Son of God is the 'shoot' of Jesse.
LU,Try this reason.
Isaiah 37:31
King James Version (KJV)31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Hi Kerwin,
That verse seems to speak of the remnant once again diligently seeking their LORD creator and bearing fruit because of spiritual growth. Do you agree Kerwin?But what is the root of Jesse from Isaiah 11:
1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord—
3and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
5Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
6The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearlinga together;
and a little child will lead them.
7The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest.
9They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
10[/B]In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. [/B]11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt,b from Cush,c from Elam, from Babylonia,d from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
Jesus says in Rev 22 that He is the root and offspring of David and in Rev 5, He is called the root of David. Isaiah 11 speaks of the Root of Jesse and says that from the roots a branch will bear fruit. The branch is Jesus in the flesh as a descendant of Jesse/David. What are the roots symbolic for? The roots are something that sends the Branch yet the Branch and the Root are both Jesus. Why are 'roots' plural (verse 1) then singular (verse 10)?
Rev 22 16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star. ”
Rev 5 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
LU,Quote That verse seems to speak of the remnant once again diligently seeking their LORD creator and bearing fruit because of spiritual growth. Do you agree Kerwin? That is what I believe it was originally dealing with but it can also be used as a type by replacing Jesus as the remnant, Jesse as Judah, and Jesus bearing of fruit.
The fruit can be either Spiritual fruit or the believers.
Isaiah 11:1 and 2 are confusing verses because of pronoun use.
1) The Shoot comes up from the Stump
2) From the roots of the Shoot the Branch bears Fruit.Isaiah 11:2 sounds like Jesus Christ is the Shoot and not the roots; though he is rooted in the stump, which is the family of Jesse. Believers would then be the Branch that bears Spiritual fruit.
Hi Kerwin,
You have me digging in scriptures over this.
I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…'Anyway, about Isa 11:1 I will put in what I understand the pronouns to be and show you why I believe that the Messiah is the Branch and not the church/believers.
Young's Literal Translation
And a rod (the promised King of the throne of David, i.e. the Messiah) hath come out from the stock of Jesse (Jesse and his descendants), And a branch (the Messiah) from his (Jesse's) roots is fruitful.I think that the roots refer to the Creator (Father through the Son) of all.
I think that the branch/shoot is the Son as the Messiah/Son of David/Son of God, according to the flesh.
Therefore Jesus is both a root (as Creator with the Father as the Word through whom all things are made) and a shoot (the Messiah in the flesh).Reasons for the Messiah being the Branch/shoot:
Jeremiah 33:15 In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Can you see this, Kerwin?
Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Hi abe,
I believe that the 'was' is there instead of 'is' because the emphasis is to say that even in the beginning the Word was God and didn't become God at a later time.I don't believe that the Word 'was' God and then stopped being God.
Jesus said 'I am' the Root AND the Shoot.
Jesus said 'I am' not 'was' the Root.
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,17:44) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Hi abe,
I believe that the 'was' is there instead of 'is' because the emphasis is to say that even in the beginning the Word was God and didn't become God at a later time.I don't believe that the Word 'was' God and then stopped being God.
Jesus said 'I am' the Root AND the Shoot.
Jesus said 'I am' not 'was' the Root.
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Hi LU,Why did God say he was in the beginning?
Peace sister.
LU,
no I do not see.
Quote But what is the root of Jesse from Isaiah 11: 1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord—
Who or whose are “his” and “him” respectively?
I believe the strongest case was the one I gave you earlier.
“his” could instead be Jesse and Jesus the Branch. In that case the “him” in verse 2 is the Branch.
What pronoun or label do you believe is Yawheh?
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