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Hello fellas,
I'm currently doing an intense study of the Old Testament. From Genesis to Malachi. I'm currently studying the Hebrew language as well. I ran across a passage that I thought was pretty interesting.
Revelation 1:8, 11 are often used to prove that Jesus is the Almighty.
8″I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, “which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
11Saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
These words did come out of Jesus's mouth. But was he saying that he was the Almighty?
Lets look at Genesis 31:11
11And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying , Jacob: And I said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee. 13I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
The angel said, “I am the God of Bethel”.
Was he saying that he was God, or was he being a messenger for God.
The same can be applied to Christ in Revelation can't it?
After all Hebrews 1:1-2 says
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Was God simply speaking to John through his Son as this passage suggests?
Rev 1:1 tells us this that we are reading which John the scribe wrote as a record is the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him, and he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John.
So it would seem that God gave it to Jesus who sent it by his angel to John…Quote Rev 1:1 tells us this that we are reading which John the scribe wrote as a record is the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him, and he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John.
This is a good point Malcolm.
The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8)The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”Quote (Woutlaw @ April 10 2006,23:31) Hello fellas, I'm currently doing an intense study of the Old Testament. From Genesis to Malachi. I'm currently studying the Hebrew language as well. I ran across a passage that I thought was pretty interesting.
Revelation 1:8, 11 are often used to prove that Jesus is the Almighty.
8″I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, “which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
11Saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
These words did come out of Jesus's mouth. But was he saying that he was the Almighty?
Lets look at Genesis 31:11
11And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying , Jacob: And I said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee. 13I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
The angel said, “I am the God of Bethel”.
Was he saying that he was God, or was he being a messenger for God.
The same can be applied to Christ in Revelation can't it?
After all Hebrews 1:1-2 says
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Was God simply speaking to John through his Son as this passage suggests?
Hi woutlaw,
Gen 31.11
“Then the angel of God said to me in the dream
'Jacob….
for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you
'I am the God of Bethel..' “
Within the angel's words is another quotation mark when the direct words of God are transmitted by the angel.God speaks through angels, prophets,The Son of God ..
and even through donkeys.Jesus is Jehovah the Alpha and Omega the First and the Last
In Revelation 1:8. it reads,
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says,
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let's see who is speaking in verse twelve.
Look at verse sixteen,
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says,
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus.
Here is strong proof that Jesus is God because both Jehovah and Jesus are called the Alpha and the Omega.
Another pair of verses that are effective when used together are Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says,
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last.
Jesus is Jehovah the Alpha and the Omega the First and the Last
Hi Cb,
Actually he is the SON of God, despite how that mucks up your little traditional theory of trinity.Quote (Woutlaw @ April 10 2006,23:31) Hello fellas, I'm currently doing an intense study of the Old Testament. From Genesis to Malachi. I'm currently studying the Hebrew language as well. I ran across a passage that I thought was pretty interesting.
Revelation 1:8, 11 are often used to prove that Jesus is the Almighty.
8″I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, “which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
11Saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
These words did come out of Jesus's mouth. But was he saying that he was the Almighty?
Lets look at Genesis 31:11
11And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying , Jacob: And I said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee. 13I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
The angel said, “I am the God of Bethel”.
Was he saying that he was God, or was he being a messenger for God.
The same can be applied to Christ in Revelation can't it?
After all Hebrews 1:1-2 says
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Was God simply speaking to John through his Son as this passage suggests?
Hehe Great stuff WoutLaw. I like it!!Hugs
Nick Hassen
Quote Hi Cb,
Actually he is the SON of God, despite how that mucks up your little traditional theory of trinity.Nick.
Is that the best that you can do?
I take it that you have no answer from scripture for my above post.CB, states:
Quote In Revelation 1:8. it reads, Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says,
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let's see who is speaking in verse twelve.
Look at verse sixteen,
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says,
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus.
It isn't “clear” at all.
What is clear is that some things were missed.
REVELATION 22:12-13
““‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Aĺpha and the O·méga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation.
–in verses 8 we have John talking.
–In verse 9, we have the angel speaking to John.
–verse 16 obviously applies to “Jesus,”
–the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,”
–and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences.
As I said before:
“The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.””
Of course, the coming judgment will be expressed by Jehovah God through his Son, for the apostle also says: “This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind.” (Rom. 2:5-10,16)
REVELATION 4:8
“And as for the four living creatures, each one of them respectively has six wings; round about and underneath they are full of eyes. And they have no rest day and night as they say: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.””
REVELATION 1:4-5
“John to the seven congregations that are in the [district of] Asia: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, , and from Jesus Christ,“the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” and “The Ruler of the kings of the earth.””At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers.
Does this make it “clear” that Jesus and his apostles are the same? Well, they are the same in a certain respect and so they can share the same descriptive word. Jehovah is the first and last by means of his Godship. Jesus is first and last in a way that is described in the context of those verses, if we actually care to look at context.
Quote Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last.
Obvious, it is Jesus speaking as you say. Why, because as you say, “he died but is now alive.” Notice Jesus words and think about they actually mean, what he is actually saying:
“FEAR NOT; I am the first [OF WHAT] and the last [OF WHAT]: [HE'LL EXPLAIN:] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
cb, YOU yourself say:
Quote Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive
Yes, he was the first, the firstborn from the dead (Rev 1:5)
In the verse in question, if we look at the CONTEXT, we notice that Jesus being the “first and last” is connected to him being the living one who became dead, and him now having the keys of death and hades.REVELATION 1:5
“and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD,”. . . “
ACTS 26:23
“that the Christ was to suffer and, as the FIRST TO BE RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD, . . .”“
(Obviously, he wasn't the first to be resurrected from the dead, so this must be referring to him being the first to be resurrected in a specific way. Jesus was the first to be resurrected of those who would not have to die again. Also, he was the first to be raised as a spirit person. (1 Peter 3:18)
COLOSSIANS 1:18
“and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the BEGINNING, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that he might become the one who is FIRST in all things;”
So, we could guess that Jesus being the “first” means that he is God Almighty, but it doesn't say this. We do know 2 things:
1. He is described, even in the same chapter of revelation (1:5), as being the first in that we was the first to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Col 1:18)
2. The statement in question continues to say that he is the living one who “became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever.”
I believe that based on the context and these other scriptures, and with no direct evidence to the contrary, we have to believe that Jesus is the first in this respect.The Bible very very very very very clearly explains, often in the same sentences as the verses in question how Jesus is the first.
HE IS THE FIRST TO BE RAISED TO IMMORTAL LIFE IN THE HEAVENS.How is he the “last”?
That too is covered in the rest of the statement. It says that he had been given the keys of death and of hades. Jesus was the “last” to be resurrected by Jehovah personally.
JOHN 5:21
“For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to.”
JOHN 6:40
“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.””
REVELATION 2:8
““And to the angel of the congregation in Smyr?na write: These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’ WHO BECAME DEAD AND CAME TO LIFE [again],” (Again, notice that with reference to Jesus, ho
w these words are connected to Jesus death and resurrection.)
JOHN 11:25
“Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;”
It seems that Jehovah resurrected Jesus and that Jehovah has entrusted power of judging to Jesus, the power to resurrect. (Dan 7:13,14; 2 Tim 4:1,2) Jesus said: “I will resurrect him on the last day” and “I am the ressurection and the life…”
As Revelation 1:17,18 says, Jesus now has the keys of death and hades.
So I believe he was the “last” to be resurrected by Jehovah, the responsibility of resurrecting now being given to Jesus. For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25)
This explanation looks at the words and ideas surrounding the actual phrase “first and the last” and it also looks at other scriptures that speak of Jesus being the first. (Compare Rev. 2:8) It is not based on the idea that I want something to be true. This is what the Bible says. And as far as I can tell, it carries much stronger evidence.CB, please at least read the above post.
Please.
The scriptures do often speak of Jesus as being the first in a certain respect. I wonder if that could be connected to Jesus being the first and the last? The context indicates that the answer is yes. Or, it's just a great coincidence. Anyway, please at least read what I wrote above. I feel it is actually based on what the scriptures say.
A time that every eye shall see him, or even understand? Yet still to come?
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Do you think these verses are connected with Rev 1; 6-8
A day mourning connected to both David and the word piercing to death of Christ? Posible light on explantion of wailing; ( voided first resurrection}
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;So much always includes King David and so much prophecy leads to him as the end truth and shacking of the earth, which also started with him in his convent that he received
OT prophecy
Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.Again David and a door shutteth for a denying of a Name?
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.Conformation that we need to reach to Christs father Daivd for the key truth and rest somehow?
Hbr 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.Some how King David is going to end this with mourning?
Selah; unto God and his Father
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto” God and his Father;” to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Hour of temptation to proceed with our own knowledge or to fall away from what the world has past down from generation to generation?
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.Please help me anyone?
Day's pass and pass and pass please anyone?
connecting the scriptures from OT to NT even to REV
The fathers and prophets have the keys to understandingcharity
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2007,03:05) Hi charity,
David is a prophet, a mouthpiece for God.
That's all.
Flowers in the dustbin
Key to annulling your covenant with deathLord Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall.
God save us allDavid
Quote CB, please at least read the above post. David, I have read the above post as well as your others and I disagree with you.
Look at Revelation 1:17-18 which says,
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus, for He lived and was crucified and was ressurected and is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last: the title of God!
In verse18 Christ says that He has the keys of hell and of death.
Hell, translated from hades, is the grave. So Christ is claiming to have the power to resurrect the dead from their graves.
See Rev 1:18
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus here is saying that because He lived, died and was ressurected and is alive for evermore, He also has the power to resurrect the dead from their graves and give them eternal life.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
There is no doubt that the resurrected Christ is speaking here and He is claiming the title of God by saying “I am the first and the last.” Rev 1:17
Jesus used two of God's titles to describe Himself:
“I am” and “the First and the Last”
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
The Bible clearly identifies Jesus as Jehovah God.
Quote Jesus used two of God's titles to describe Himself: “I am” and “the First and the Last”
I'm starting a thread on the “I am” nonsense.
Hi GS and WJ,
I found an old thread on this passage and so I will respond here tomorrow.
Thanks guys,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 11 2006,10:38) Yes I believe so Woutlaw.
Rev 1.8
“…says the Lord God…” shows that it is a quote from God Himself.
Greetings Nick….We havn't spoken in some time….With reference to the Alpha/Omega and being the beginning and the end….I would think that the eternal IS…and it is possible that the scripture referenced by Woutlaw is referencing Jesus being the first born of the dead or the first God made man and will return…what do you think ?
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