Revelation 16:13-14

[journey42]

limjunus,Sep. wrote:

[/quote]
LJ

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We could not read in the Bible that God have said this: “NO NEED TO THE MAN TO LISTEN TO ANY PREACHER. JUST READ THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AND COME FORWARD DIRECTLY  TO JESUS, CONFESSING THAT HE IS YOUR LORD AND PERSONAL SAVIOR IS ENOUGH AND YOU CAN ENTER TO MY KINGDOM ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY”.

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What we can read is this: “Romans 10:14-15 American Standard Version (ASV) 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings of good things!  17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. (Ref: Romans 10:14-15, 17)

Go to the beginning of the chapter, you will see who it is referring to?[
Romans 10:1   Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for ISRAEL is, that they might be saved.
Romans 10:16   but they have not all obeyed the gospel, For Isaiah saith, Lord who hath believed your report?
Romans 10:18   But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Romans 10:19   but I say, Did not ISRAEL know?  first Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.  (Gentiles)
Romans 10:20   But Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.  (Gentiles)
Romans 10:21   But to ISRAEL he saith,  All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.(Israel)

Israel had all the prophets, and Christ himself, the apostles & disciples.  They murdered and rejected them all.

Read on the next chapter, it is  speaking of Israel as well

God works in mysterious ways.  Yes the gentiles also heard from word of mouth, and from preaching.  Most gentiles first heard also because they were forced to hear, and religion forced on them.  Nevertheless,  the name of Jesus Christ has travelled the whole world, and nearly all have heard, but not all have inquired, or heard the truth.  Big difference.
And in the last days, we have the “Falling Away” where the truth cannot be heard in the churches, as most have gone corrupt with their teachings, so going to a church is not a good place to find God, but going first to the scriptures, learning them, and then if one feels they need a church, they can be armed with the truth when they enter, then discern if that church preaches the truth.
But if one walks blindly into a church, having no knowledge, then attending their bible studies will fill their head in with the churches doctrine, and the person will not know any difference.  That church will even tell you what bible version to read, making that decision for you from the start, and many trust them with their souls.

[journey42]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 29 2012,15:53)

So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. (Ref: Romans 10:17) They are so many preachers in this world nowadays, who shall be among them to be heard? The answer of the Bible is very clear, the one sent by God. (Ref: Romans 10:14-15) How we could distinguish the true preachers sent by God? The answer of the Bible is also very vividly. Isaiah 8:20 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. The word “speak” symbolizing the “preaching”…. and must be in accordance with the law and the testimony.

Amen, yes.

[journey42]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 29 2012,16:12)

10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” The testimony is the spirit of the prophecy. The preachers of the words of God, must be having the prophecy for them as their testimony that they are the true messengers of God, to says the things of God, for the people in this world. We must be sure that our preachers have the testimony (the spirit of the prophecy). Meaning: Have written prophecy in the Bible as their divine identification or credential from God. The same prophecy for John the baptist, Jesus Christ and the apostles, including the prophecy fro the chosen people of God. God bless you.

Amen to this too,
and they must have the same prophesy as the prophets from the old testament.
eg, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah, Malachi, Amos, Joel, Hosea,

[Devolution]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 29 2012,15:11)

Devo, Revelation 13:16-18 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) 16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, 17. that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18. Here is wisdom: Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.[/b] Why the passages said it “the right hand or the foreheads”? To to give emphasize that it is not a separate mark/sign “both” could be come out with the right hand and the foreheads. The verses 16 up to 18 is a related messages and having a very strong connection. 666= Vicarives Filii Dei= the title of the of Pope Roman Catholic Church. The signs of the cross is belong to the Roman Catholic Church The “Divine Trinity Doctrine” (God the father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) is the fundamental and very important with the Roman Catholic Church. It is the name of a vital doctrine have been mentioned while performing the signs of the cross by their right hand and of their foreheads of Catholic member. Yeah, it was already existed and you could not denied it

Hi Limjunus,

The reason the mark is in the right hand or in the forehead is simple, not all people have hands & not all people have functional hands either, be they through birth defects or
crippling diseases (severe arthritis for example)….but everybody has a forehead!!

Rev 13….the first beast stands for the empires.
So that leaves us with the second beast with two horns.
This is the one you are calling the Pope/Roman Catholics.

KEY:
Two horned beast (2nd beast) = Red
First beast wounded/healed empire = Green

Rev 13:12
   And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.  

So we see this 2nd beast telling the people to worship the first beast…

*If this 2nd beast were the Pope, representing the Catholics, why is he telling the people to worship an empire instead of his religion?

*When you continue reading you should find that the people are worshipping this beast before the MARK is even released!!

**So the mark comes after the people are already worshipping Limjunus!!

Which leads to the question…what “mark” (keeping in line with your reasoning) were the people “marked with” before this other “mark” came out?…Remember, this mark comes out after they are already worshipping?

How do you reconcile this?

Cheers.

[Devolution]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 29 2012,15:24)

Quote (Devolution @ Sep. 29 2012,14:20) Brother, please consider what i have pointed out. For they are things in need of pondering and testing by you alone. For it is not my duty to think for you, nor your churches, nor your pastors, but it is your duty and yours alone to seek out the meaning. Don't settle on what feels right, settle on what is right…at any cost to you. For on that great day, it will be just you alone standing before Christ…not you & pastor whoever, not you and the 7th day brethren gathered around….just you and Christ. And then you will realize that when Christ said, “Come and learn of Me”, you will realize He meant you alone learn of Him…by your own seeking…not through some “Christian” organization doing the seeking/thinking for you…because that is putting your faith in men and not God. Please don't willingly put yourself in that situation of no return. Cheers. Devo, The words of Jesus ” “Come and learn of Me” is not a meant that we should not listen to the true preachers of God. Jesus, said “Come lean on Me, meant for believing and trusting on him. Jesus said, “listen to I have sent as you have listened on me whom the Father had sent. “If have listen to them that I have sent, you hath listening on me and if you hath listening on me, you hath listening to the Father whom have sent me.” As what the Bible said. Only the true preachers sent by God, could preach his words. (Ref: Romans 10:14-15, 17 NKJV) Now, Jesus is heaven and the apostles were in the graveyards, who shall be listening to? Who is the true preachers of God nowadays? … and what are they divine credential?

Hi Limjunus,

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Now, Jesus is heaven and the apostles were in the graveyards, who shall be listening to? Who is the true preachers of God nowadays?

Limjunus, now we have the written word of God to learn from.
The early church did not have bibles!!
So they needed to gather & learn from the only place they could hear the written word which were written on individual manuscripts that only the church possessed and preached.

But now we all have the written word in our own homes.
Now we no longer need to gather at churches to just hear the word, but we can now hold the written word in our own hands & read it for ourselves.
And in thus doing & implementing those teachings into our lives…we become the preachers.

Did not Jesus promise the Holy Spirit would teach us?
That no man need teach another…for the genuine seekers who are not just hearers of the word, but doers of the word also… these are they that the Holy Spirit teaches..

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… and what are they divine credential?

Their fruits.
You can tell a man by his fruits.

[limjunus]

Quote (Devolution @ Sep. 30 2012,15:32)

Which leads to the question…what “mark” (keeping in line with your reasoning) were the people “marked with” before this other “mark” came out?…Remember, this mark comes out after they are already worshipping? How do you reconcile this? Cheers.

The Pope is the supreme authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Pope need to be worshiped by his followers “alive of dead”,..including the graven images.

Roman Catholic Church has their image to be worshiped, an image of a man wounded, died and rose from the dead.

The Pope approved the doctrines of Divine Trinity (God composed of three) and the signs of the cross.

In making the signs of the cross, the Divine Trinity doctrines must be uttered simultaneously, beginning of the word “IN the name of…”

Therefore, worshiping of the beast was happened before the doctrine of the divine trinity and the signs of the cross.

Check the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia and the origin of her doctrines, times and how the Early Pope worship.

[Devolution]

Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 01 2012,22:42)

Quote (Devolution @ Sep. 30 2012,15:32) Which leads to the question…what “mark” (keeping in line with your reasoning) were the people “marked with” before this other “mark” came out?…Remember, this mark comes out after they are already worshipping? How do you reconcile this? Cheers. The Pope is the supreme authority of the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope need to be worshiped by his followers “alive of dead”,..including the graven images. Roman Catholic Church has their image to be worshiped, an image of a man wounded, died and rose from the dead. The Pope approved the doctrines of Divine Trinity (God composed of three) and the signs of the cross. In making the signs of the cross, the Divine Trinity doctrines must be uttered simultaneously, beginning of the word “IN the name of…” Therefore, worshiping of the beast was happened before the doctrine of the divine trinity and the signs of the cross. Check the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia and the origin of her doctrines, times and how the Early Pope worship.

Hi Limjunus,

It seems you missed my point!

The people of the world were worshipping the Empire beast in Rev 13, and NOT the two horned beast whom you call the RC Church!

The foundation of this interpretation
The 2nd beast of rev ch13 stands for the Vatican and that is WHY the people are worshipping THAT beast in rev ch13.
Therefore the mark that is tied to this 2nd beast stands for the way the Catholics cross themselves during/after prayer AND what they believe etc.
So, the WORSHIP of this 2nd beast is TIED to the MARK, other words, if we take away the WORSHIP of this 2nd beast, the whole doctrine FAILS…because this 2nd beast MUST be WORSHIPPED for the interpretation of the MARK to make sense!

I have already shown with scripture that the people were worshipping the 1st beast and not the 2nd beast.
So I have now taken WORSHIP of the 2nd beast out of your argument!
The interpretation fails brother!

Your interpretation requires BOTH worship/mark of the SAME beast for it to work, you do acknowledge this yes?

[terraricca]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 30 2012,02:54)

Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 29 2012,17:02) Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 29 2012,00:30) LJ Quote [/b]The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” The light of the lamp represent the words of God. The Bridegroom represent Jesus Christ The Bride represent the church. The Roman Catholic Church is a dying religion.  Their numbers are dropping dramatically.  People are even too afraid to send their boys to their boarding schools.  They are being sued worldwide, and their leaders, teachers, and hierachy exposed.  Look around at their empty churches….do you see them as a threat still Quote and the mark with their right hand and their foreheads is the “signs of the cross” of the Catholics by making the mark/signs by only their right hand and it should landed first in their foreheads. … You have no scripture to back this claim.  Your church group interpreted this themselves, and passed it off as “truth” and the congregation believe everything told to them. Quote In addition to it, read the 1 Tim 4:1-4 NKJV. The  Roman (Babylon) Catholic Church is having the doctrines of the demons. Yes, quite right, they are one of the daughters of the harlot, but you are forgetting that the harlot has MANY DAUGHTERS. 1Timothy 4:3   Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, ……. Do you also know that the 7th day adventist endorses a vegetarian diet?  Banning members to eat meat.  I know a lady who is 7th day adventist and teaches nutrition in a high school run solely by the 7th DA.  The school is forbidden to cook meat in classes, as they are strictly vegetarian, and goes against church rules. And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” “her” represent a church. All of my post were taken out from the Bible. I did not not post my own “doctrines”. If you are really after the truth of God, you should follow what's the Bible said. You need to hear the words of God, from the true preachers , sent by God. Romans 10:13-5, 17 NKJV. Only the man with the testimony of the spirit of the prophecy shall be the sole preacher of the words of God.  (Ref: Isaiah 8:20 NKJV). Do not go to the room and reading the holy scriptures all the time of your life. It won't work.  Find the true preachers of God, and listen to them.

Limjanus

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And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” “her” represent a church.

why is it A CHURCH

TO ME THE SCRIPTURES ARE TALKING ABOUT BABYLON THE EMPIRE WITH THE GOLDEN HEAD ,AND IS NOW CALLED “THE GREAT” TO ME IT SEEMS THAT THE POWER OF BABYLON (THE GOLDEN HEAD HAD POWER LIKE NO ONE BEFORE ,GOVERNEMENT,POLITICALLY,RELIGEOUSLY NAME IT ,IT ADD IT,SO WHERE ARE YOU CONCLUDING THAT IT IS REPRESENTING A CHURCH ;?? TO ME IT SEEMS THAT IT IS MEN POWER ,POWER WITHOUT GOD,THIS IS WHY IT SAYS “And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.” SEE THE LAST PART

Ge 4:13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear.
Ge 4:14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth,

Ge 4:23 Lamech said to his wives,
“Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
Ge 4:24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times.”

Ge 4:6 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
Ge 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”

SEE THE LAST FEW WORD WHAT GOD SAY TO CAIN

THEIR IS NO CHURCH INVOLVED HERE,JUST PEOPLE TAKE THE POWER OVER OTHERS LIVES ,AND BABYLON WAS THE LAST EMPIRE TO HAVE THAT POWER ,SLOWLY OTHER NATIONS GREW TO RESPECT LIVE AND GIVE LAWS TO PROTECT IT ,

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2012,12:21)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 21 2012,12:00) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2012,11:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 21 2012,10:38) Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 21 2012,02:07) Is the statements of Revelation 16:13-14 Categorically, Symbolically or Figuratively? The three unclean spirits has been categorically specified, that they were the demons spirits. How about the words coming out from the mouths of the Dragon, Beast and False Prophet and like frogs? How about the phrases, ”  For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world,? How about also these messages, “to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty? LImjunus. (1) The Dragon is symbolically speaking; satan. (2) The beast is symbolically; satans empire. (3) The false prophet is categorically the man of perdition. The 3 spirits are categorically spirits. The froglike spirits, are the manner of uttering the words.(the command). wakeup. Hi Wakeup: I agree with #1 and #2, but not with #3. 'The son of perdition' is the spirit son that causes perdition.   'The false prophet' of Rev.13:11 is Muhammad  –  not the same.         God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Edj. If the false prophet is mohamad then you are contradicting rev.19:20. The false prophet will be live at the coming.Not dead 1400yrs ago. wakeup. Hi WaKeup, (The beast is symbolically; satans empire) <– your words The beast is symbolically; satans empire will be thrown into the lake of fire WITH 'the false prophet'.    …or have you forgotten this? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ.

Thats exactly what I said.
satan managed 7 empires,and the 8th is coming soon.

The 8th will be led by 10 cockroaches,and the one will come soon after.(the f.p.).

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Hi Wakeup,

The eighth is 'Muhammadin-islam' and it is already here.  (<a href="https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=4249;st=400
” target=”_blank”>Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:28)

Hi Wakeup, The eighth is 'Muhammadin-islam' and it is already here.  (<a href="https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=4249;st=400 ” target=”_blank”>Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ.

The 10 are here,and they are not muslem.
They are the sons of satan,and they live in the west.
Not in arabia or any muslem country.
I pray that my brother will see someday.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,05:33)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:28) Hi Wakeup, The eighth is 'Muhammadin-islam' and it is already here.  (<a href="https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=4249;st=400 ” target=”_blank”>Link) God bless Ed J EdJ. The 10 are here,and they are not muslem. They are the sons of satan,and they live in the west. Not in arabia or any muslem country. I pray that my brother will see someday. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

My Job is only to tell you “The Truth”,
it's God's Job to make you believe it, not mine.

That's why I don't argue with those who vehemently disagree.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:40)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,05:33) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:28) Hi Wakeup, The eighth is 'Muhammadin-islam' and it is already here.  (<a href="https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=4249;st=400 ” target=”_blank”>Link) God bless Ed J EdJ. The 10 are here,and they are not muslem. They are the sons of satan,and they live in the west. Not in arabia or any muslem country. I pray that my brother will see someday. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, My Job is only to tell you “The Truth”, it's God's Job to make you believe it, not mine. That's why I don't argue with those who vehemently disagree. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Edj.

The 10 cockroaches are not muslems.
Do you agree?

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:09)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:40) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,05:33) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,05:28) Hi Wakeup, The eighth is 'Muhammadin-islam' and it is already here.  (<a href="https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=4249;st=400 ” target=”_blank”>Link) God bless Ed J EdJ. The 10 are here,and they are not muslem. They are the sons of satan,and they live in the west. Not in arabia or any muslem country. I pray that my brother will see someday. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, My Job is only to tell you “The Truth”, it's God's Job to make you believe it, not mine. That's why I don't argue with those who vehemently disagree. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Edj. The 10 cockroaches are not muslems. Do you agree? wakeup.

10 cockroaches?

[Wakeup]

EdJ.

Yes, I call the 10 horns cockroaches.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:29)

EdJ. Yes,  I call the 10 horns cockroaches. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

Who the 10 islamic kings are is mentioned in Psalm 83.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,09:34)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:29) EdJ. Yes,  I call the 10 horns cockroaches. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, Who the 10 islamic kings are is mentioned in Psalm 83. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ.
Pslms. 83. is about the surrounding nations; israels neighbours.

The muslems do want israel to disappear,israel is in their land; but God has given it to israel.
The Germans also wanted the jews to disappear.

Satan wanted israel to be non existent.
The pharaohs wanted the hebrews to be destroyed.

The 10 kings under satan; plans to get rid of israel.
They will make war with the Lamb.

And the 10 kings are not muslems; they are the western nations. The last end time roman empire.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:59)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,09:34) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:29) EdJ. Yes,  I call the 10 horns cockroaches. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, Who the 10 islamic kings are is mentioned in Psalm 83. God bless Ed J EdJ. Pslms. 83. is about the surrounding nations; israels neighbours. The muslems do want israel to disappear,israel is in their land; but God has given it to israel. The Germans also wanted the jews to disappear. Satan wanted israel to be non existent. The pharaohs wanted the hebrews to be destroyed. The 10 kings under satan; plans to get rid of israel. They will make war with the Lamb. And the 10 kings are not muslems; they are the western nations. The last end time roman empire. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup, it's Israel's land.

“Thus shall he (the spirit of antichrist) do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he
shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many,
and shall divide the land (of Israel) for gain.” (Dan 11:39)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2012,09:34)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:29) EdJ. Yes,  I call the 10 horns cockroaches. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, Who the 10 islamic kings are is mentioned in Psalm 83. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ.

Please answer:

Are the 10kings living in the western nations today muslems?(the elite).(the eye in the piramid).(the illuminated ones).

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2012,09:59)

EdJ. Pslms. 83. is about the surrounding nations; israels neighbours. The muslems do want israel to disappear,israel is in their land; but God has given it to israel. The Germans also wanted the jews to disappear. Satan wanted israel to be non existent. The pharaohs wanted the hebrews to be destroyed. The 10 kings under satan; plans to get rid of israel. They will make war with the Lamb. And the 10 kings are not muslems; they are the western nations. The last end time roman empire. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

You saying it don't make it true.
I have shown you the maps confirming
that what I have been telling you is true.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Author]

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