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After browsing through a few pages of this thread, I for one am glad I can now stop studying the Bible and going to church. I think I'll go out and pick up a bag of pot and drink a few six packs of beer. After all, the grace of God is sufficient for me, the lucky Gentile!
Let's all sit around the campfire and sing Kumbaya!
Quote (chosenone @ July 03 2007,06:00) Nick.
You give Acts.17:30 as scripture for the requirment of repentance. I assume then that also as in Acts.7:8, You are also cicumcised?
Acts.7:8 “And He gives him the covenant of circumcision. And thus he begets Isaac, and circumcised him on the eighth day, and Isaac Jacob, and Jacob the twelve patriarchs.
Now if you are not cicumcised, how do you choose which commands to obey, and which not to obey?Blessings.
Galatians 5:1-61 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Now realize that circumcision of that day symbolized a willingness to be under the Law while its practice today by most has to do with supposed hygiene & health benefits. It has almost nothing to do with adherence to the Law unless one is a Jew or converting to Judaism.
Nick's Acts 17:30 reference had to do with the statement “all people everywhere should repent”. I'm guessing you don't fit in the statement “all people”? No wonder you are the ChosenOne
.Quote (chosenone @ July 01 2007,18:08) LAW OR GRACE, WHICH?
Is the Fourth Commandment and are the remaining nine of
the Ten Commandments binding upon the Church?
If so, to what extent?THE very First Commandment is evidence that the law was given only to the nation of Israel, for they only were brought up out of the land of Egypt (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) The Fourth Commandment, concerning the Sabbath Day, likewise is restricted to that nation, for it is written: “Remember that thou hast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that Jehovah, thy Elohim, brought thee out hence by a mighty hand and a stretched out arm: therefore, Jehovah, thy Elohim, commanded thee to keep the Sabbath Day (Deut. 5:15).
Israel's greatness consisted partly in this, for “what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this, which I set before you this day?” (Duet. 4: 8). It was one of their special prerogatives (Rom. 3:1, 9:4, not the giving of the law, but the legislation) in which they boasted (Rom.2:23), and a part of the oracles of God, which were their chief advantage over the other nations. Negatively, we are told that the nations, who have not law shall perish without law and be judged by their conscience (Rom. 2:12-16).
Some are inclined to repudiate these passages because of Romans 3:19, which sums up the two lines of argument the apostle has been pursuing. First he indicts the nations (Rom. 1:18 to 2:16), without a single appeal to the Scriptures. Then he turns to the Jew (Rom.2:17 to 3:19) and quotes their own Scriptures to show their guilt. Then, having previously indicted Jews as well as Greeks to be all under sin, he quotes what the law says, which can only apply to those under the law, to prove Israel's guilt and thus stop every mouth, making the entire world subject to the just judgment of God.
It is foolish to insist that “whatever the law is saying it is speaking to those under the law” (Rom. 3:19) and then immediately retract it and assert that the law is speaking to the whole world, whether under its jurisdiction or not. The Greek conjunction used here (hina, in order that) introduces a logical deduction which must be traced back to its sources. It must not be used to distort one of its premises because the other has been lost sight of.
There are two classes among those who believe, so far as their previous place in the world is concerned-those who were Jews and those who were of the other nations. Before faith comes (Gal. 3:23) the former are guarded under law, but after faith is come (Gal. 3:25) they are no longer under law. They are now exempted from the law, having died to that which was holding them fast (Rom. 7:6). The spirit's law, giving life by Christ Jesus, frees them from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:2).
Soon after some of the nations believed, the sect of the Pharisees insisted that it was needful to command them to keep the law of Moses (Acts 15:15). At the conference called to consider this matter, Peter declared that God had purified their hearts by faith. “Why then, are you now trying God, by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we are strong enough to bear? But through the grace of the Lord Jesus we are believing, to be saved in a manner even as they” (Acts 15:6-12). And even James gave it as his judgment that “I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back to God” (Acts 15:19). Yet they made decrees for them to keep, which were binding on those among the nations who believed until Jew and Gentile are reconciled through the cross, and are created into one new humanity, and the law, of precepts in these decrees are repealed (Eph. 2:15, 16).
The period from the council at Jerusalem until Paul's imprisonment is the only one during which the nations were under any law, yet these decrees were in no sense a repetition of the ten commandments. They made no reference at all to the Sabbath.
It should be freely and fully acknowledged that our Sunday is a purely heathen holiday. It is not even referred to in the Scriptures. While the first day of the week may be mentioned in most of our versions, it has no place in the Original. We know that it was not a Sabbath, or day of cessation from labor, or it would assuredly have been so designated We need hardly say that “the Lord's day” is a modern misuse of a term which should be applied only to the day of the Lord spoken of by prophets. The observance of Sunday was probably unknown until the time of Constantine- a name associated with much which is prized by men, but an abomination by God.
What then, is our attitude towards the law? If the reader is a Jew, let him reckon himself as dead to it and beyond its jurisdiction. He will not keep Saturday as the Sabbath, for that is the letter of the law whose infringement would bring him into bondage, but, knowing Christ as the consummation of the law (Rom. 10:4), in spirit he enjoys all that the keeping of the law could bring and far more. His Sabbath consists, not in cessation from physical labor each seventh day, but complete rest from his own efforts to attain righteousness. Christ has become this to him. The Sabbath was but a shadow of this real rest.
The danger in falling out of grace (Gal. 5:4), even so little as going back to the literal observance of the Sabbath lies in the fact that the slightest infringement of the law of Sabbath carries a curse with it. “Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all things written in the scroll of the law to do them” (Gal. 3:10).
The first sign that it has become a legal observance is the repudiation of Sunday for Saturday, -the seventh day which was the day God sanctified. This is but a step to the deadly bondage of law. For if it is necessary to observe the right day it is also necessary to keep every jot and title of the commands concerning that day. And the slightest failure here brings condemnation. Grace brings us beyond condemnation: law puts us under it. The law says do or die; grace says believe and live.
But if the reader is not a Jew(as the writer of these lines) let us exult in the transcendent grace which has become ours in Christ Jesus, so that, though never under the jurisdiction of the law before faith came, we are not bound by its chains after we have believed, but are free in Him. Our incentive to good deeds is not the laws loud thunders, but the gentle, but far more potent call of love-the love of Christ constraineth us.
The law has its place and function. It came in by the way in order to increase offense. Sins of ignorance are no offense to God. It is when sin is committed against His express commands that God is offended. And this was needed in order to magnify the grace which was about to be revealed. Yet where sin increases, grace superabounds. Thus it is with us quite the opposite of being under law. Condemnation increases as sin increases under law: grace increases as sin increases for those in Christ Jesus (Rom. 5:20-6:1).
In conclusion, the law was a wise provision for God's earthly people and many of its enactments are fraught with physical and moral benefits which may profit us. To rest one day in seven is undoubtedly a good plan and well worth observing as a rule of health, provided it be kept out of the domain of law keeping. It is the motive that matters. To do aught to justify ourselves strikes at the heart of God's purpose to lock up all in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all. To keep the law after faith has come defeats His purpose to draw us close to His heart in reconciliation. It denies the gift of the spirit. It recalls the dispensation of de
ath, which has been eclipsed by the dispensation of righteousness and life and love——————————————————————————–
CO we are not under the LETTER of the Law.Jesus made the Law spiritual:
Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.Did you get that CO? If you are angry with your brother it's as though you have broken the sixth commandment.
Has heaven and earth passed away?
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.REMEMBER to keep the Sabbath.
What Sabbath do you keep? The Harlot's!
Like kejonn says lets PARTY
Heck Jesus died so we could break the law which is sin. This IS the commandment, CO:
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; “this is the commandment”, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
Keep the commandment or break the commandment, it's your choice.
Quote (chosenone @ July 03 2007,06:00) Nick.
You give Acts.17:30 as scripture for the requirment of repentance. I assume then that also as in Acts.7:8, You are also cicumcised?
Acts.7:8 “And He gives him the covenant of circumcision. And thus he begets Isaac, and circumcised him on the eighth day, and Isaac Jacob, and Jacob the twelve patriarchs.
Now if you are not cicumcised, how do you choose which commands to obey, and which not to obey?Blessings.
Hi Co ,
Do you not have the discernment to grasp what is of the old law and the new law of the Spirit. Then how do you discern the gospel spoken by Jesus from his teachings on the OT law?You will need to seek the Spirit.
Circumcision is spiritual through water baptism under the law of the Spirit.
Col2
” 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
That's right:
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Let me guess “that's for Jews”?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2007,10:30) Hi K,
Fulfilling the OT law saves nobody.
That door is closed.
I agree Nick Jesus fulfilled those laws concerning Himself.Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Only accepting Jesus will save you. But that's just the beginning isn't it.
The saints will be keeping the Commandments of God before and during the tribulation.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
AND Nicky if you would like to get in heaven then you are to DO His commandments.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Don't forget Nicky this is the commandment that we have heard from the beginning. 2John 6
Whats Old Testament about that?
Hi K,
Which commands are these?
OT or NT or both?
Should you inflict external laws again on the sons of God?
Who are you to do so?
Are we not under the inner law of the Spirit of God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2007,11:15) Hi K,
Which commands are these?
OT or NT or both?
Should you inflict external laws again on the sons of God?
Who are you to do so?
Are we not under the inner law of the Spirit of God?
Gee Nick lets see they are in revelation and 2 John is that New Testament?I told you Nick if you want to break God's law then go ahead I've done all that I can do. It's between your pride and scripture.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2007,11:26) Hi K,
Are they only the OT laws there?
They are (according to your Saviour) the Laws that have not passed away. And those who teach that they have will be the least in the kingdom of heaven.Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.I know you have no scriptures Nick so why continue in your folly? Bored?
Perhaps you should go back to the Ten Commandment thread and read your posts again.
Hi K,
Of course the OT Laws remain as signposts of the nature and expectations of God and to reveal sin.
But we are not Jews to apply external laws but rather sons of God following the inner law.Hi folks, I think these verses sum up the role of the commandments in our life as Christians:
1 John 2:1-5
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected By this we know that we are in Him:IOW, our ability to keep the commandments is our own form of “self check” to know that you indeed abide in God. Running around and saying “I believe, I believe” is not enough.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2007,11:42) Hi K,
Of course the OT Laws remain as signposts of the nature and expectations of God and to reveal sin.
But we are not Jews to apply external laws but rather sons of God following the inner law.
And what is the “inner law”? To do as we please? To keep man's day instead of God's day? The Sabbath is not written on our heart. That's why we are to 'remember' to keep it. It's something that if you love God you do on your own.If you don't keep the day of God then you keep the day of the harlet, man's day.
If you say everyday is the Sabbath then you lie. If you kept the Sabbath everyday you would never work at all, that's not being holy that's being LAZY
Besides is everyday the seventh day?If you say you choose to keep a different day then you keep a day that God didn't santify. It was only the seventh day tha the Father made Holy.
The Sabbath is the most joyful of all the commandments. It's Father's day, His day on which he wishes to visit with you ALL day. If you haven't experienced that then try it if you can.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: 'for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.'Quote (kenrch @ July 03 2007,10:16) That's right:
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Let me guess “that's for Jews”?
Hi kenrch.
Again, a mistranslation, the proper translation for the word “commandments” in this scripture is “precepts”, meaning direction. This scripture starts with: “Each as God has called him, thus let him be walking. When God “calls” He baptizes with the “holy spirit”, it is of God, not of “ourselves” to obey some law.
Using the”Inerlinear Scripture Analyser” benefits greatly in understanding scripture.Blessings.
Hi CO,
You say
” When God “calls” He baptizes with the “holy spirit”, it is of God, not of “ourselves” to obey some law.”
We know from scripture that the baptism of the Holy Spirit endows supernatural powers and abilities to men. These are remarkably lacking among the nations at present so I guess it has not happened or only among a few who are saved?
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