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I haven't got all scriptures or pursued this in depth, looking for discussion and applicable scriptures.
When I read scriptures I see a mention of seeds, planting, sowing and remnants being saved.
I have been wondering if anyone else has thought that a meaning for the “remnant being saved” is that while flesh (body and soul) are to be destroyed (do not inherit the kingdom of God) that there is a remnant of all – a spiritual seed in all that will be saved.
This also ties back to first natural – then spiritual.
Adam was created totally natural with a spiritual seed. I believe that Adam was not created spiritual, then fell and is to be rescued to a spiritual state with only a remnant of his progeny.
Hi mK,
The soul is not to be destroyed.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.And if our body sees the return of Jesus the imperishable covers the perishable[1Cor15]
Meerkat
You have a lot of loose ends here, and I really don't know were to start and how; so let me try.
We humans don't have a soul; I don't know if that is what you meant; we are a soul.
Flesh and blood can not inherit the spiritual kingdom of God.
Only the second death will destroy body/soul, and spirit/mind.
The natural man Adam was first, the spiritual man Christ was second.
There is nothing in the Bible that says, Adam had a “spiritual seed”.
He sinned and so did all of us, he was saved from the grave the same way all of us were, through Jesus ChristGeorg
The soul is to be renewed – we crucify the deeds of the flesh.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.The soul in its natural state is not pure
When Adam was made a living soul soul =
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): – any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 19 2008,06:17) Meerkat You have a lot of loose ends here, and I really don't know were to start and how; so let me try.
We humans don't have a soul; I don't know if that is what you meant; we are a soul.
Flesh and blood can not inherit the spiritual kingdom of God.
Only the second death will destroy body/soul, and spirit/mind.
The natural man Adam was first, the spiritual man Christ was second.
There is nothing in the Bible that says, Adam had a “spiritual seed”.
He sinned and so did all of us, he was saved from the grave the same way all of us were, through Jesus ChristGeorg
GeorgI am not sure where to start either, just an idea that is there in my mind which I want to explore –
where predestination comes from is where God has predestinated some for destruction and some for honour – and the belief is that it is some individual people predistinated for eternal torment – that to me can not be reconciled with a loving God who is not a respecter of persons. So to me it seems the vessel for dishonour is the natural and the vessel for mercy is the spiritual – there is a fleshly body and a spiritual body – maybe the seed is not in the physical body but I believe that God has predestinated for all a spiritual body (seed).
1 Cor 15
Meerkat
Predestination is by God. God knew before anything was created that we would sin.
Jesus excepted to die for us before the world was formed.
God, who knew every person that would be born, determent that from all ages, and from all nations, certain individuals would be called; called out from the rest of humanity for a special purpose; that is predestination.Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
We are all justified through Jesus Christ, but we will not all be glorified, be in the first resurrection.
God did not create anyone, nor did he predestine anyone for destruction; but God knows how every one will turn out, and he uses good and evil as it serves his plan.Georg
Hi Georg,
By ALL being justified you men all who are saved.The work of Jesus has to be responded to personally in faith
Those who do not believe remain under the wrath of God.[Jn3]
Yea, Nick
You can not be saved, if you are not justified, and you are not justified without faith in Christ.
Yes, not believing is not having faith.Georg
I do agree with you both that being saved from the wrath of God you need to have faith ………… however I believe the scriptures that say when Gods judgement are in the earth all will learn righteousness …….being part of the elect/chosen does not mean that reconciliation will not be for all, however salvation from wrath is for those that God has chosen and are faithful for a purpose (reconciling the world)
The purpose of wrath is for teaching a lesson – damnation is being given over to wrath
Rom 11:15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us{believers} the message of reconciliation.
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Hi MK,
Only the sons of God and the remnant heathen nations will enter the millenial kingdom.
The rest are resurrected at the end of that time.Lessons seem to end otherwise at death.
Enough is written for us to find the wayThe gospel is also preached to the dead – so that they are judged as men in the flesh, however they live according to the will of God.
The purpose of the thread was not to debate about universal reconciliation however ……………… however, I think my questions are linked with the process of how God is reconciling the world to himself ……………
Hi mk,
What could Jesus teach the heathen?
Teaching follows preaching and the gospel of the kingdom is no longer preached during that kingdom.Nick,
You seem to think that the gospel {good news} is just words that are spoken, whereas I believe that the gospel {good news} is the act of Jesus being raised from the dead, and we as messengers speak the words which describe what Jesus actually did – Jesus is not teaching words to people.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,05:58) Hi mK,
The soul is not to be destroyed.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.And if our body sees the return of Jesus the imperishable covers the perishable[1Cor15]
Nick,The perishable is not covered it is destroyed, th perishable by its very nature perishes, that is why we are to not put our faith in the perishable …………
Hi mk,
1Cor 15
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,08:48) Hi mk,
What could Jesus teach the heathen?
Teaching follows preaching and the gospel of the kingdom is no longer preached during that kingdom.
Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people.Why is it called the “eternal” gospel
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2008,09:20) Hi mk,
1Cor 15
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Cor 15:50 1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.The perishable perishes.
Hi MK,
Indeed flesh and blood cannot.
So the perishable covers the imperishable as must have happened with the one we follow.Dan7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 19 2008,09:10) Nick, You seem to think that the gospel {good news} is just words that are spoken, whereas I believe that the gospel {good news} is the act of Jesus being raised from the dead, and we as messengers speak the words which describe what Jesus actually did – Jesus is not teaching words to people.
Hi MK,
Indeed Christ resurrected is the message we offer fulfilling the promises of God to the Jews and astounding the greeks and gentiles who can accept it.heb2
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
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