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Quote King James Then shall you RETURN and grow up in the stall It would be helpful if you stated which scripture this was.
So, you mention this scripture:
Matt. 17:12, 13: “[Jesus said:] ‘Elijah has already come and they did not recognize him but did with him the things they wanted. In this way also the Son of man is destined to suffer at their hands.’ Then the disciples perceived that he spoke to them about John the Baptist.”
Did this mean that John the Baptist was a reincarnated Elijah?
When Jewish priests asked John, “Are you Elijah?” he said, “I am not.” (John 1:21)
What, then, did Jesus mean?
As Jehovah’s angel foretold, John went before Jehovah’s Messiah “with Elijah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.” ” (Luke 1:17) So John the Baptist was fulfilling prophecy by doing a work like that of the prophet Elijah.—Mal. 4:5, 6Not sure why you quote malachi. Perhaps you could highlight the part that you think teaches reincarnation.
For reincarnation to be true, then we would have to have immortal souls. The Bible does not teach this, but rather teaches that the life that we enjoy is like the flame of a candle. When the flame is extinguished, it does not go anywhere. It is just gone.
In the Bible, souls die, and are not immortal.
Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.”
(*Hebrew reads “the néphesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.”
(*Greek has the accusative case of psykhé. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psykhé] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”
Also see:
Ge 12:13; 17:14; 19:19,20; 37:21; Ex 12:15,19; 31:14; Le 7:20,21,27; 19:8; 22:3; 23:30; 24:17; Nu 9:13; 15:30,31; 19:13,20; 23:10; 31:19; 35:11,15,30; De 19:6,11; 22:26; 27:25; Jos 2:13,14; 10:28,30,32,35,37,39; 11:11; 20:3,9; Jg 5:18; 16:16,30; 1Ki 19:4; 20:31; Job 7:15; 11:20; 18:4; 33:22; 36:14; Ps 7:2; 22:29; 66:9; 69:1; 78:50; 94:17; 106:15; 124:4; Pr 28:17; Isa 55:3; Jer 2:34; 4:10; 18:20; 38:17; 40:14; Eze 13:19; 17:17; 18:4; 22:25,27; 33:6; Mt 2:20; 10:28; 26:38; Mr 3:4; 14:34; Lu 6:9; 17:33; Joh 12:25; Ac 3:23: Ro 11:3; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20; Re 8:9; 12:11; 16:3The Bible speaks of ‘holding back,’ ‘rescuing’ and ‘saving’ a néphesh or soul from death. (Psalm 78:50; 116:8; James 5:20) We also read: “Let us not strike his soul fatally.” (Genesis 37:21) “The manslayer must flee there who fatally strikes a soul unintentionally.” (Numbers 35:11) “Their soul will die in youth.” (Job 36:14) “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
If the Bible is right, then the souls die. The first mention of “soul” was adam BECOMING a soul, NOT being given a soul.
Santa, a jolly old soul (person.) The eight “souls” on the ark. People (souls) die. Of course, soul is also spoken of in the Bible sometimes as the life of the person (or animal) and that's were people get confused.
But, soul's die.
Deem Bones are dried up in the grave, Is this not a promise of Old to explore?
Or SHOULD I FIND MYSELF REJECTED?Eze 37:11 ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.Now this writer Opened the graves of Many, symbolic? for being born again to grow up in the stalls after the sun of rightousness..
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.Quote Deem Bones are dried up in the grave, Is this not a promise of Old to explore?
Or SHOULD I FIND MYSELF REJECTED?Charity, I once said this to you:
“If the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle?” (1 Corinthians 14:8, 33)
If we can't understand something that is said, there will be no response.While your words are poetic, often, they're hard to understand.
Quote Now this writer Opened the graves of Many, symbolic? for being born again to grow up in the stalls after the sun of rightousness.. Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.At the most, this is a resurrection, not reincarnation. But, I don't actually believe it's either.
The text at Matthew 27:52, 53 concerning “the memorial tombs [that] were opened” as the result of an earthquake occurring at the time of Jesus’ death has caused considerable discussion, some holding that a resurrection (not re-incarnation) occurred.
However, a comparison with the texts concerning the resurrection makes clear that these verses do not describe a resurrection but merely a throwing of bodies out of their tombs, similar to incidents that have taken place in more recent times, as in Ecuador in 1949 and again in Bogotá, Colombia, in 1962, when 200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor.—El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962.“THE earth quaked, and the rock-masses were split. And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.” (Matthew 27:51-53) Catholic scholar Karl Staab calls this event that occurred at Jesus’ death “most mysterious.” What happened?
Epiphanius and other early Church Fathers taught that the holy ones literally came to life and went with the resurrected Jesus to heaven. Augustine, Theophylactus, and Zigabenus believed that these dead ones received a temporary resurrection but later returned to their tombs. The latter opinion, however, “did not gain wide recognition,” comments scholar Erich Fascher. When rendering Matthew 27:52, 53, many modern Bible translations give the impression that a resurrection took place. Not so the New World Translation, which points to the effects of an earthquake. Why?
First, whoever “the holy ones” were, Matthew did not say they were raised up. He said their bodies, or corpses, were. Second, he did not say these bodies came to life. He said they were raised up, and the Greek verb e·gei′ro, meaning to “raise up,” does not always refer to a resurrection. It can, among other things, also mean to “lift out” from a pit or to “get up” from the ground. (Matthew 12:11; 17:7; Luke 1:69) The upheaval at Jesus’ death opened tombs, tossing lifeless bodies into the open. Such occurrences during earthquakes were reported in the second century C.E. by Greek writer Aelius Aristides and more recently, in 1962, in Colombia.
This view of the event harmonizes with Bible teachings. In 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the apostle Paul gives convincing proof of the resurrection, but he completely ignores Matthew 27:52, 53. So do all other Bible writers. (Acts 2:32, 34) The corpses raised up at Jesus’ death could not have come to life in the way Epiphanius thought, for on the third day thereafter, Jesus became “the firstborn from the dead.” (Colossians 1:18) Anointed Christians, also called “holy ones,” were promised a share in the first resurrection during Christ’s presence, not in the first century.—1 Thessalonians 3:13; 4:14-17.
Most Bible commentators have difficulty explaining verse 53, although several of them suggest that verse 52 describes the opening of tombs by the earthquake and the exposing of newly buried corpses. For example, German scholar Theobald Daechsel gives the following translation: “And tombs opened up, and many corpses of saints laying at rest were lifted up.”
Who were those that “entered into the holy city” a considerable time later, namely after Jesus had been resurrected? As seen above, the exposed bodies remained lifeless, so Matthew must refer to persons who visited the tombs and brought news of the event into Jerusalem.
David You Said …When Jewish priests asked John, “Are you Elijah?” he said, “I am not.” (John 1:21)
The Gospal John is on the other team,
He calls Jesus a Lamb, thats right he needs blood,by no means is John happy to receive the covenent harken and hear and your soul shall live?Quote Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.–charity
Not sure why you quote malachi. Perhaps you could highlight the part that you think teaches reincarnation.–david
Quote David You Said …When Jewish priests asked John, “Are you Elijah?” he said, “I am not.” (John 1:21) John is on the other team,
He calls Jesus a Lamb, thats right he needs blood,by no means is John happy to receive the covenent harken and hear and your soul shall live?“John is on the other team”?
So, the guy that lead people to Christ, and that Jesus went to to be baptized is on the other team?
I'm wondering if you could explain this.LUKE 1:16-17
“and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God. Also, he will go before him with E·li′jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to GET READY FOR JEHOVAH A PREPARED PEOPLE.””Prepared for what? The messiah, Jesus.
Quote (david @ April 13 2008,15:31) Quote Deem Bones are dried up in the grave, Is this not a promise of Old to explore?
Or SHOULD I FIND MYSELF REJECTED?Charity, I once said this to you:
“If the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle?” (1 Corinthians 14:8, 33)
If we can't understand something that is said, there will be no response.While your words are poetic, often, they're hard to understand.
Thanks David, thanks for being gentle about itAs far as I can tell, the immortal soul belief came from Babylon.
It is this false belief that is the cornerstone of reincarnation.
Much like the trinity concept, and hellfire, the immortal soul belief is false and a part of babylon the great, false religion.
It is a popular belief. But false. At least, if you believe the Bible.
If you don't believe the Bible, then believe whatever you wish.
“You [will] return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
Think of what that means. Before God created him from the dust, Adam did not exist. After his death, Adam returned to the same state of nonexistence.
Isiah preaches after David that the soul shall live?
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isa 55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation [that] thou knowest not, and nations [that] knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.They all need new bodies that the eternal soul may dwell, nature provides the flesh, while the soul is of old ordained…remember Christ the first soul, and many to follow!
Hbr 10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Jude wants us to see Malachi 3 Happening,
Men Twice dead, their roots burnt up as spoken in Malachi 400 years before, being fulfilled even as far back as 2000 yrs ago , if we wish to consider?Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Hi charity,
Indeed the souls that listen and obey will live.
Others who cannot listen should fear him.Mt 10
28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.Twice dead.
Twice dead
Song 10
Proclamation
Translated Text:
Now, I shall proclaim, hear and listen,
you who have come from near and far as seekers.
Now, clearly bear these in mind.
Let not the evil teacher, the wrongful,
with his evil choice and perverted tongue, destroy life for a second time.Charity! That is scary stuff and i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Freedom of choice is divine? Chose progress and promote the world? Known by a new name? Mazda Abyra? Sounds pretty much like the same as the New Age religion, and that I would not touch either. My place is with Jesus Christ my Savior, who gave His life for us, so we can have eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. A freee gift so we can't boast. The Holy Spirit is in us and we are the Temple of God.
Pravr and Love Mrs.Quote (seek and you will find @ April 14 2008,11:53) Charity! That is scary stuff and i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Freedom of choice is divine? Chose progress and promote the world? Known by a new name? Mazda Abyra? Sounds pretty much like the same as the New Age religion, and that I would not touch either. My place is with Jesus Christ my Savior, who gave His life for us, so we can have eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. A freee gift so we can't boast. The Holy Spirit is in us and we are the Temple of God.
Pravr and Love Mrs.
Freedom of choice is divine. Are you a Christian by decree or choice? Be careful in criticizing how another knows her God for her God may indeed be your God but with another name. Yes we have a holy spirit within us and we are a temple, but Charity has that spirit also and choose to decorate her temple to fit her needs, yet the goal and direction of that temple may serve the same being and purpose as yours.Quote (Cato @ April 17 2008,23:55) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 14 2008,11:53) Charity! That is scary stuff and i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Freedom of choice is divine? Chose progress and promote the world? Known by a new name? Mazda Abyra? Sounds pretty much like the same as the New Age religion, and that I would not touch either. My place is with Jesus Christ my Savior, who gave His life for us, so we can have eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. A freee gift so we can't boast. The Holy Spirit is in us and we are the Temple of God.
Pravr and Love Mrs.
Freedom of choice is divine. Are you a Christian by decree or choice? Be careful in criticizing how another knows her God for her God may indeed be your God but with another name. Yes we have a holy spirit within us and we are a temple, but Charity has that spirit also and choose to decorate her temple to fit her needs, yet the goal and direction of that temple may serve the same being and purpose as yours.
Greetings Cato….In defense of your thesis…How do we explain “Iam the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob and there shall be No others before me”I can look at that in two possible ways: One, the Old Testament is wrong and the whole favored people bit was a conceit of the authors (who just so happened to be members of that group).
Two, the other way it can be looked at is the God of Abraham is also the God of Zarathustra, the Great Spirit, what ever, being one and the same, they are not before him, just another time or culture's name for the same being. Allah is the God of Abraham also is he not? I find it hard to believe the Creator of the entire Universe would only present himself to one tribe of people, at one time in history.Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2008,07:15) Quote (Cato @ April 17 2008,23:55) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 14 2008,11:53) Charity! That is scary stuff and i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Freedom of choice is divine? Chose progress and promote the world? Known by a new name? Mazda Abyra? Sounds pretty much like the same as the New Age religion, and that I would not touch either. My place is with Jesus Christ my Savior, who gave His life for us, so we can have eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. A freee gift so we can't boast. The Holy Spirit is in us and we are the Temple of God.
Pravr and Love Mrs.
Freedom of choice is divine. Are you a Christian by decree or choice? Be careful in criticizing how another knows her God for her God may indeed be your God but with another name. Yes we have a holy spirit within us and we are a temple, but Charity has that spirit also and choose to decorate her temple to fit her needs, yet the goal and direction of that temple may serve the same being and purpose as yours.
Greetings Cato….In defense of your thesis…How do we explain “Iam the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob and there shall be No others before me”
To add to what Cato said, consider these two items:- 2Ch 36:22 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia–in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah–the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,
2Ch 36:23 “Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, 'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and He has appointed me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever there is among you of all His people, may the LORD his God be with him, and let him go up!'”Now from the Cyrus Cylinder, and cuneiform discovery (http://www.mfa.gov.ir/cms/cms/tokyo/en/PoliticalPart/)
- I am Kourosh (Cyrus), King of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of the land of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters, son of Camboujiyah (Cambyases), great king, king of Anshân, grandson of Kourosh (Cyrus), great king, king of Anshân, descendant of Chaish-Pesh (Teispes), great king, king of Anshân, progeny of an unending royal line, whose rule Bel and Nabu cherish, whose kingship they desire for their hearts, pleasure. When I well -disposed, entered Babylon, I set up a seat of domination in the royal palace amidst jubilation and rejoicing. Marduk the great god, caused the big-hearted inhabitations of Babylon to ……………… me, I sought daily to worship him.
Now that I put the crown of kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of (Ahura) Mazda, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them until I am alive. From now on, till (Ahura) Mazda grants me the kingdom favor, I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it, and if any one of them rejects it, I never resolve on war to reign. Until I am the king of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions, I never let anyone oppress any others, and if it occurs, I will take his or her right back and penalize the oppressor.
And until I am the monarch, I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. Until I am alive, I prevent unpaid, forced labor. To day, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion. People are free to live in all regions and take up a job provided that they never violate other's rights.
No one could be penalized for his or her relatives' faults. I prevent slavery and my governors and subordinates are obliged to prohibit exchanging men and women as slaves within their own ruling domains. Such a traditions should be exterminated the world over.
I implore to (Ahura) Mazda to make me succeed in fulfilling my obligations to the nations of Iran(Persia), Babylon, and the ones of the four directions.
If Yahweh is indeed the only God, and Cyrus was given the kingdoms of earth according to the bible, why does Cyrus jimself make no mention of Yahweh on the cylinder?
Furthermore, consider another Persian king by the name of Darius. Here is a good passage about him in the OT:- Ezr 6:1 Then King Darius issued a decree, and search was made in the archives, where the treasures were stored in Babylon.
Ezr 6:2 In Ecbatana in the fortress, which is in the province of Media, a scroll was found and there was written in it as follows: “Memorandum–
Ezr 6:3 “In the first year of King Cyrus, Cyrus the king issued a decree: 'Concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, let the temple, the place where sacrifices are offered, be rebuilt and let its foundations be retained, its height being 60 cubits and its width 60 cubits;
Ezr 6:4 with three layers of huge stones and one layer of timbers. And let the cost be paid from the royal treasury.
Ezr 6:5 'Also let the gold and silver utensils of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be returned and brought to their places in the temple in Jerusalem; and you shall put them in the house of God.'
Ezr 6:6 “Now therefore, Tattenai, governor of the province beyond the River, Shethar-bozenai and your colleagues, the officials of the provinces beyond the River, keep away from there.
Ezr 6:7 “Leave this work on the house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews rebuild this house of God on its site.
Ezr 6:8 “Moreover, I issue a decree concerning what you are to do for these elders of Judah in the rebuilding of this house of God: the full cost is to be paid to these people from the royal treasury out of the taxes of the provinces beyond the River, and that without delay.
Ezr 6:9 “Whatever is needed, both young bulls, rams, and lambs for a burnt offering to the God of heaven, and wheat, salt, wine and anointing oil, as the priests in Jerusalem request, it is to be given to them daily without fail,
Ezr 6:10 that they may offer acceptable sacrifices to the God of heaven and pray for the life of the king and his sons.
Ezr 6:11 “And I issued a decree that any man who violates this edict, a timber shall be drawn from his house and he shall be impaled on it and his house shall be made a refuse heap on account of this.
Ezr 6:12 “May the God who has caused His name to dwell there overthrow any king or people who attempts to change it, so as to destroy this house of God in Jerusalem. I, Darius, have issued this decree, let it be carried out with all diligence!”Now this from http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761558789/zoroastrianism.html
- Zoroastrianism gradually emerged as the official religion of ancient Iran during the Achaemenid dynasty, which ruled from about 550 bc to 330 bc. Inscriptions from the reign
of Darius I, from 522 bc to 486 bc, are full of the praise of Ahura Mazda.And from http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ietexts/ope/ope-1-X.html
- 36 Darius the King declares: 37 You who will be king hereafter, protect yourself from the Lie steadfastly. 38 The man who would be a follower of the Lie, punish him well if 39 you would think thus: 'Let my realm be secure.' 40 Darius the King declares: This is what I did, 41 [and] by the will of Ahura Mazda I did [it] in this very [time frame] of [one] year. You who will 42 hereafter read this inscription, may what was done by me persuade 43 you lest you think it deceit. Darius the King declares: 44 I turn myself quickly to Ahura Mazda, as this [is] true, not false, 45 [this that] I did in the very [time frame] of [one] year …
50 … Darius the King declares: Among those 51 [who] were earlier kings, not as much was done thus by them 52 as was done by me in the very [time frame] of [one] year by the will of Ahura Mazda. 53 Now, let what was done by me persuade you. 54 [And] thus, on account of the people, do not conceal [the deeds carved here]. If 55 you do not conceal this record [but] declare [it] among the people, Ahura Mazda 56 will become your friend, a large family will be [yours], and [your] life will be long. 57 Darius the King declares: [And] if you do conceal this record 58 [and] declare [it] not among the people, may Ahura Mazda become your smiter and may your family 59 not be born. Darius the King declares: This is what I did, 60 [and] by the will of Ahura Mazda I did [it] in this very [time frame] of [one] year. Ahura Mazda bore me aid 61 as did the other gods who exist. Darius 62 the King declares: [And] on account of this Ahura Mazda bore [me] aid as did the other 63 gods who are: because I was not hostile, I was not a follower of the Lie,I find it rather amazing that Yahweh supposedly punished others who did not worship him, yet it seems that he highly honored two Persian kings who never mentioned him. Not by the name Yahweh in any case!
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