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Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:16) Quote Are you limiting satan's influence to only one point in time? No, just the scope of the context it is not reasonable to expand a context beyond its intended meaning
Hi BD,Psalm 22:1-31 was penned by David, but it has future applications to Christ; do you deny this truth?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) Can you show me how this is referring in any way to a future context?
Hi BD,See my previous post for precedence.
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:26) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,02:47) (1)In regards to antichrist what does ANTI-CHRIST mean? 1 John 2:22
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.(2)So to be antichrist you have to deny that Jesus is Christ:
Hi BD,1) “Instead of” or “in denial of” Christ.
2) Read the text, that would be 'a liar'; the next part describes the spirit of antichrist;
you have to deny the Father(HolySpirit) and the Son(Jesus Christ),
and that is exactly what the spirit of antichrist teaches!B'shem
YHVH
Again and again I see the problem here is semantics and context.Your approach is to say that Muslims don't call God “Father” nor anyone “son” of God so therefore it is denying Father and Son, correct?
On the other hand the terms God and Christ are prominent and Muslims believe in both God and HIS Christ.
Now I ask you did God in-fact Father Jesus? Did HE beget Jesus with Mary? Did God in-fact beget Jesus like Adam and Eve begat Cain and Abel?
If not, how did he do it?
Mary
20 She said: “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?”
21 He said: “So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed.”The family of Imran
45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”
47 She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:44) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:11)
Hi BD,Your comparing apples and oranges.
you do believe that this Gabriel's prophecy came true; correct? <– Please answer this questionIs Jesus not called the Son of the Highest? <– And also please answer this question
And the angel(Gabriel) said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (Luke 1:30-33)
You proved my point because the above is true it would be unreasonable to suggest that Satan could or would masquerade himself as Gabriel
Hi BD,Your logic is equivalent to showing someone a real $100.00 bill,
and then saying that this proves there are no counterfeits.Will you please answer the two questions I posed to you?
B'shem
YHVH
Jesus is CALLED son of the HIGHEST this is not a matter of Paternity but of Holy righteouness notice that it also saysLuke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Notice it doesn't say that you shall bear GOD a SON it is saying that this NEW CREATION i.e. “thing” shall be called the son of God
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also: Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Hi BD,How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,04:10)
Your approach is to say that Muslims don't call God “Father” nor anyone “son” of God so therefore it is denying Father and Son, correct?
Hi BD,This is what 1John 2:22 clearly states. And confirmed
by the Apostle Paul in 2Cor.11:14 and Gal.1:8.B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,04:10)
Now I ask you did God in-fact Father Jesus?
Hi BD,Is the “HolySpirit” God?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,04:16) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:44) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:11)
Hi BD,Your comparing apples and oranges.
you do believe that this Gabriel's prophecy came true; correct? <– Please answer this questionIs Jesus not called the Son of the Highest? <– And also please answer this question
And the angel(Gabriel) said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him
the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (Luke 1:30-33)
You proved my point because the above is true it would be unreasonable to suggest that Satan could or would masquerade himself as Gabriel
Hi BD,Your logic is equivalent to showing someone a real $100.00 bill,
and then saying that this proves there are no counterfeits.Will you please answer the two questions I posed to you?
B'shem
YHVH
Jesus is CALLED son of the HIGHEST this is not a matter of Paternity but of Holy righteouness notice that it also saysLuke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Notice it doesn't say that you shall bear GOD a SON it is saying that this NEW CREATION i.e. “thing” shall be called the son of God
Hi BD,Do you not call Jesus the “Son of God”?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,03:16) Quote Are you limiting satan's influence to only one point in time? No, just the scope of the context it is not reasonable to expand a context beyond its intended meaning
Hi BD,Psalm 22:1-31 was penned by David, but it has future applications to Christ; do you deny this truth?
B'shem
YHVH
It is a Psalm not a letter and the difference is vast because a song can have all types of applications and usages are all the Psalms meeting the criteria you have given it, if so I could use another Psalm to clearly point out that Jesus was not crucifiedPsalm 91
1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
That Psalm concurs with
That they said (in boast), “We killed christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also: Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Hi BD,How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?
B'shem
YHVH
Hi BD,How can we reason together if you keep refusing to answer my questions? (Isaiah 1:18-19)
B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,04:33) (1)It is a Psalm not a letter and the difference is vast because a song can have all types of applications and usages are all the Psalms meeting the criteria you have given it, (2)if so I could use another Psalm to clearly point out that Jesus was not crucified Psalm 91
1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
Hi BD,1) Thank you for considering Psalm 22:1-31 to be an accurate description of Jesus and his crucifixion.
2) Please point to the part that you suggests contradicts Psalm 22; OK?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:32)
Do you not call Jesus the “Son of God”?
Hi BD,Please answer this question as well; OK?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also: Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Hi BD,How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?
B'shem
YHVH
I'm not disagreeing notice the usage of the term “I WILL” that is a fortelling of future events so yes I would agree it applies but look:Acts 13:47
For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”Notice what you apply to Jesus Christ is also then applied again and pluralized?
Notice how you have to go from this is Isaiah speaking about Christ to include all Christians so who is this light? Christ or all Christians? Christians cannot apply to the Servant that raise up the tribes of Jacob, right?
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,04:33) (1)It is a Psalm not a letter and the difference is vast because a song can have all types of applications and usages are all the Psalms meeting the criteria you have given it, (2)if so I could use another Psalm to clearly point out that Jesus was not crucified Psalm 91
1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
Hi BD,1) Thank you for considering Psalm 22:1-31 to be an accurate description of Jesus and his crucifixion.
2) Please point to the part that you suggests contradicts Psalm 22; OK?
B'shem
YHVH
No evil shall befall thee.8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
If he was crucified then he was not delivered and his call was not answered because the call of Jesus was this:
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.Did the Cup pass from him or not?
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:51) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:32)
Do you not call Jesus the “Son of God”?
Hi BD,Please answer this question as well; OK?
B'shem
YHVH
Actually I “call” Jesus the son of God, I “Call” God Father, I often use the expression children of God but these things are never said in the context that they are literal if they were literal then Jesus would not have been able to say:John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil……He said this because, why?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
so here you see that Jesus is applying the term SERVANT of as to mean SON of
Jesus said:
37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
so what's the problem?
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
In other words if your condition changes your status can change but is this possible with actual Parentage can your actual Father be said to not be your ACTUAL FATHER no matter what you do or how you behave?
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
So, isn't Jesus talking about who are or are not SERVANTS of GOD?
(9) (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18)Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:13) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also: Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Hi BD,How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?
B'shem
YHVH
I'm not disagreeing notice the usage of the term “I WILL” that is a fortelling of future events so yes I would agree it applies but look:Acts 13:47
For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”(1)Notice what you apply to Jesus Christ is also then applied again and pluralized?
Notice how you have to go from this is Isaiah speaking about Christ to include all Christians so who is this light? Christ or all Christians?
(2)Christians cannot apply to the Servant that raise up the tribes of Jacob, right?
Hi BD,1) Correct
2) It most certainly does apply. (see 1Cor.12:27)
Now ye (Christians) are the body of Christ,
and members in particular. (1Cor.12:27)B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:18) (1)No evil shall befall thee. (2)Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
(3)If he was crucified then he was not delivered and his call was not answered because the call of Jesus was this:
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.(4)Did the Cup pass from him or not?
Hi BD,1) No evil did befall him, because he went willingly to the cross. (see John 12:27-28)
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. (John 12:27-28)2) YHVH did deliver him, God raised him from the dead! (see Psalms 16:10)
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalms 16:10)3) Mathew 26:39 does not override John 12:27;
only in the 'book of fraud' does one verse override another.4) Nope; because it was his father's will for him to bring salvation to the ends of the earth. (see 1John 2:2)
He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1John 2:2)B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:32) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:51) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:32)
Do you not call Jesus the “Son of God”?
Hi BD,Please answer this question as well; OK?
B'shem
YHVH
Actually I “call” Jesus the son of God, I “Call” God Father…
Hi BD,Then you do not believe sura 2:116 nor sura 23:91; right?
B'shem
YHVHQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,05:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:13) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,03:53) If you apply that to have an ongoing meaning apart from its context then this would apply also: Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Hi BD,How does one point establish the other? …have you not read Isaiah 49:6?
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
Do you deny that Isaiah is speaking of Jesus Christ here? <– Please answer this question?Have not Christians brought the “Good news” of the Gospel unto the end of the earth. <– Also please answer this question?
B'shem
YHVH
I'm not disagreeing notice the usage of the term “I WILL” that is a fortelling of future events so yes I would agree it applies but look:Acts 13:47
For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”(1)Notice what you apply to Jesus Christ is also then applied again and pluralized?
Notice how you have to go from this is Isaiah speaking about Christ to include all Christians so who is this light? Christ or all Christians?
(2)Christians cannot apply to the Servant that raise up the tribes of Jacob, right?
Hi BD,1) Correct
2) It most certainly does apply. (see 1Cor.12:27)
Now ye (Christians) are the body of Christ,
and members in particular. (1Cor.12:27)B'shem
YHVH
So Isaiah was not speking about Jesus in particular?Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,05:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2011,05:18) (1)No evil shall befall thee. (2)Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
(3)If he was crucified then he was not delivered and his call was not answered because the call of Jesus was this:
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.(4)Did the Cup pass from him or not?
Hi BD,1) No evil did befall him, because he went willingly to the cross. (see John 12:27-28)
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. (John 12:27-28)2) YHVH did deliver him, God raised him from the dead! (see Psalms 16:10)
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalms 16:10)3) Mathew 26:39 does not override John 12:27;
only in the 'book of fraud' does one verse override another.4) Nope; because it was his father's will for him to bring salvation to the ends of the earth. (see 1John 2:2)
He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1John 2:2)B'shem
YHVH
Psalm 9314 “Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him;
I will protect him, because he knows my name.
15 When he calls to me, I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble;
I will rescue him and honour him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”Remember , you believe that Jesus Chist said he was forsaken
Do you understand what rescue means?
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