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O yes I meant speaking to Simon as the thoughts were not made plain by the reaction of Jesus to them.
One might also ask where was Martha or Lazarus at the end of Jesus's life if they were such good friends?
Perhaps they had died?Hi cubes,
In Luke 8.2 it says “:Mary, who was called Magdalene,..”
I would have thought she was identified in this way always through the gospels to separate her from all the other Marys. This would make it unlikely in my view that she was the one from Bethany, but I will keep searching.
Perhaps she was tall and the 'tower' was symbolic?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2005,21:55) Hi cubes,
In Luke 8.2 it says “:Mary, who was called Magdalene,..”
I would have thought she was identified in this way always through the gospels to separate her from all the other Marys. This would make it unlikely in my view that she was the one from Bethany, but I will keep searching.
Perhaps she was tall and the 'tower' was symbolic?
You could be right. Without proof, I concede to the side that says they are most likely different. I just find the devotion of both Marys compelling.And no, we don't hear a lot about Lazarus or Martha.
Hi cubes,
Magdala was a town 2 miles south of Tiberius, thence the name, I have found. It was a junctional town where important trade roads met and had some sort of defensive tower there originally.
Just as Jesus was a Nazarene Mary was a Magdalene.Matt 15 39
” And sending away the crowds Jesus got into the boat and came to the region of Magadan.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2005,21:55) Hi cubes,
In Luke 8.2 it says “:Mary, who was called Magdalene,..”
I would have thought she was identified in this way always through the gospels to separate her from all the other Marys. This would make it unlikely in my view that she was the one from Bethany, but I will keep searching.
Perhaps she was tall and the 'tower' was symbolic?
Sure thing. And it makes sense too that she should come from Magdala… For now that has to suffice.Hi cubes,
Mary Magdalene was a special woman. She went to visit the tomb where Jesus was laid before dawn. She then went and got the disciples who looked and went home but she stayed on weeping.
Her love was rewarded by meeting the angels and the arrival of Jesus himself. He told her to stop clinging to him but it is not clear whether this was physical or spiritual.
She did not know it was him, thought he had removed the body but rather than judging him offered to return the body to the tomb herself.
Truly her love was deeper than any man's though John who told the story also showed deep love too. Perhaps he wanted to show her in this special light as Matthew, Mark and Luke said she was not alone but with other women who met the angels but not the Lord himself?I DO AGREE TO MOST OF THE COMMENT MADE ON THIS SUBJECT. BUT TO JESUS DEITY IS ANOTHER MATTER.
CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD. BUT NOT THE SAME AS THE FATHER. FOR CHRIST HIMSELF DECLARE THAT THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIM. FOR HE CANNOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE FATHER.
IF YOU READ FARTHER FROM BOOK OF JOHN WHERE JESUS DECLARED THAT HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE, THE JEWS TRY TO STONED HIM. AND THE JEWS SAID TO JESUS, “WE TRY TO STONE YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR BLASPHEMY, YOU AS A MAN MAKE YOURSELF EQUAL TO GOD. JESUS REPLY AND QUOTE THE SCRIPTURE, “YOU ARE GOD”, IF THIS IS APPLY TO YOU, AND THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE SET ASIDE. HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT THE ONE SENT AND CONSECRATED BY GOD THE FATHER BLASPHEMES BECAUSE I SAY I'M THE SON OF GOD.
If you don't believe it when He say, I do hope you believe His miracle than through them you might be save.
Welcome Marcel,
You are largely right. Yeshua had personal divine nature and abilities which he set aside to become like us and he received these again after his resurrection.
He never lost that firstborn status as the Son of God and in him we too can be greater than the angels and seated at the right hand of the Father.
It does not mean we worship him as a competing deity though but we worship his God, the Father, as he wants us to and told us to.
I would not use the word 'deity' about Yeshua because the common use of that word applies to God, or gods, beings or idols that are worshipped.
Some cannot ever grasp these matters and see any reference to his godlike nature and status as meaning he is his own father.Thanks Nick for the reply
Jesus did become like us that through him we may be one with him and with the Father. (Book of John) One in a sense that through Christ we may know the Father the way Jesus know Him.
There is only one God and only one Lord, Lord Jesus Christ, who will tell us the truth about God, and His plan regarding man salvation. There is no one who could describe best the Father except the Son of God. Who is at the right side of the Father. Who came from above and become like us. God sent Jesus for this purpose, to reveal the Father to man and that through Him we may find salvation.
God chose us to be with Him, and reveal Himself through His Son, Lord Jesus Christ.
Man didn’t chose God first, it is God that chose us first. And no one will know the Son unless the Father reveal Christ to him.1 Cor 15
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Everything is a very strong word used by Paul here, but clarify in the word Everything this does not include God.
God gave Jesus the following authority:
1)To forgive sin
2)To give life, and have life in Himself just as the Father have life in Himself
3)To be a mediator between God and Man, ‘I am the Way’
4)To be worship (He worthy to be praise), that thru Him, God will be Honor
5)To give judgementIn the Book of John, Christ say ‘Everything is given to Him by the Father’
And again somewhere in the Scripture, ‘That every knee would bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.’ He is worthy of our worship.
Before I do believe, that Jesus is the son of God, liken to Adam as the son of God, and men as the children of God. But when I read again the verse where Christ was confronted by the Jews because of His Blasphemy as the Jews accused Him that, ‘He as a man make Himself equal to God.’
Christ didn’t denied but assert His Sonship, as the Only Son of God.In the Book of John, For God so love the world (man), that He gave his Only begotten Son, that whoever believe in Him should never perish but have everlasting life.
Again the word Only is mentioned here, as if He is only the Son of God. What about the other like Adam, Abel, Enoch, Abraham etc, are they not the son of God.
I could argue and justify my point of view all year round but that would not make it easier for you. I would not to rest your faith on Human Wisdom but on the Power of God. Let me quote you what Paul say in
I Cor 2
4 And my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive wisdom but with demostration of Spirit and Power
5 so that your faith might rest not on Human wisdom but on the Power of God.I pray that you experience this Power of God, and see God way of Salvation. I pray that God touch you as He touch thousand of other and me.
Christ is the Power and Wisdom of God.
Hi Marcel ,
Some lovely stuff in there.Can I ask you something?
Are you in Yeshua?
Are you a branch of the vine?
Does the branch worship the vine or faithfully serve it?
Are you part of the body of Christ yet?
If so then he is the head of that body and you have some other less important role.
Does the hand or finger worship the head or faithfully obey and serve it?
Does the soldier worship his superior Officer or the Commander of the army?
He makes very sure he obeys and submits to his authority does he not?Jesus is the King and we are his humble useless servants
Yes all mankind will worship him-but you will be a son of God too, in him, and sitting with him at the right hand of the Father if you have followed him into his death and resurrection.
Do you see the difference.
'Only begotten” is one word in Greek and is close to meaning 'Unique”
If you are can you worship him if you are a part of him yourself?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2005,10:09)
Hello Nick,Matt 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.I believe Bic has already made this point in the “who is Jesus thread” but you don't seem to have taken it on board. ALL authority on heaven and earth has been given to Jesus, including the right of worship. If you dispute what Jesus has said here and want to put your conditions on it, then may I have some some biblical proof to validate these conditions please.
Hi MM,
You lost me there.How does “All Authority ” relate to being worshiped???
Separate issues surely? Rights and Authority.
Where in the bible does it talk about the 'rights to be worshiped'.
Of course it does not because only the Father is to be worshiped.
Any king who has total authority cannot demand worship because of that authority. Some foolish Roman Emperors and Kings like Nebuchadnezzor did but it is not a biblical God given right surely. God punished them too for being so stupid [Dan 4.33,Acts 12 22f]. That is a nonsense to connect the two things.
Authority does not make one a god does it? Neither does “all authority ” make Jesus his own Father.Surely then giving the disciples the power to forgive sin in Jn 20 would make them equal to God too by that principle?
That is a nonsequitor.All authority, including the authority to recieve worship. Do you understand Nick?
NO MM,
I see no such authority outlined in the Word. Can you show me that right and authority together in the Word?
What does “ALL authority” mean to you nick?
Hi MM,
When you answer my questions I will be pleased to respond in detail. Clearly you see some connection between Authority and Worship that goes over most of our heads.Does becoming President Of the USA give that man greater personal rights than you and I? Not really.
Well probably he can enter more buildings and have access to more information and have protection by the secret service but as far as personal rights he and any citizen would have similar rights. Do you agree?
Jesus made the Statement that “all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth” when still on earth[Mt 28.18].Did he ever seek to be worshiped while on earth? Should we not then do as he said and worship his Father?
Hi Nick,
Answered to you Questions
1
Are you in Yeshua?I do thanks God, for it. It is my hope to be with Jesus.
2
Are you a branch of the vine?I thanks Lord Jesus Christ for considering me as a part of Him, I do thanks God, for it.
3
Does the branch worship the vine or faithfully serve it?’What does the Nature teach us?, When it is morning most of the plant/trees, their branches open up to Heaven – (to gather some heat from the sun), but when it is evening they bend (To protect the vine from harm). The branches faithfully serve the vine.
I do hope, I could do more for the vine, for without Him, where would those thousands of believers and I would be?To complete your analogy, there are three mentioned in the Book of John, the Branches (man), the Vine (Jesus) and the Vine Dresser (God). It is God who prune and cut the branches that produce and don’t produce fruit. The Vine main purpose is to give nourishment to the branches, for Jesus say without me you can’t do nothing. The Vine Dresser will be happy when He see the produce is plentiful when Harvest come.
God is Glorified thru the Son, as the Son is Glorified thru us.What does people say when someone has done something good? Who son is He? Blessed are your parent for having a good son like you. Thus, your parent are Glorified thru you.
I read somewhere in the Scripture,’All created by God will worship Him’.
3
Are you part of the body of Christ yet?Do you mean a Church? I do. I do hope I could do more for the Church – the body of Christ.
If so then he is the head of that body and you have some other less important role.
Does the hand or finger worship the head or faithfully obey and serve it?How does the body response? Does it have control over it ownself if it is a finger or hand? It is the head who control it. If a finger is cut does the body still live, sure for the whole body does not depend on the finger. If a foot is cut does the body still live, sure for the whole body does not depent on the foot. But if the head is cut, the body die.
The body faithfully obey and serve it. For the hand or finger pickup food and water for the nourishment of the body. The eyes to keep the body from falling into a pit. The foot will carry the body to safety. Every part of the body has served the Head, as He give guidance to each and every part.
4
Does the soldier worship his superior Officer or the Commander of the army?
He makes very sure he obeys and submits to his authority does he not?This analogy where never use by Jesus. For their believed is contrary to Jesus message.
Jesus liken his followers to sheep, branches, servant, disciples and teacher relationship, slave and master relationship and a friend. A friend who is willing to give His life for the ransom of many (man).5
Yes all mankind will worship him-but you will be a son of God too, in him, and sitting with him at the right hand of the Father if you have followed him into his death and resurrection.
Do you see the difference.No Nick, I don’t see any difference. As you say ‘'Only begotten” is one word in Greek and is close to meaning 'Unique”. Since God send His unique Son to perform His unique mission, No man can’t repeat this mission. For when Christ breath His last on the cross, He say ‘It is finished’. No man can repeat this mission again. I can’t followed Him into His death (for Christ die once and for all) and resurrection (for God has given this right to Jesus, to take up His life again, and I don’t have this right). No, Nick I can’t see any difference.
What I see is Christ risen from the dead (The last enemy to be conquer – Death) and sit at the right Hand of God. (Glorified God thru His Son).
Is Christ worth to be Worship?
Philippian 2
In the name of Jesus, every knee should bend, on Heaven, on Earth and below the Earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Hebrew 1
All angels in heaven should worship Him (Christ).How do you view Christ with regards to Man Salvation from sin?
[/I]Hi Marcel.
Man is not saved.
Men are saved.All men could take advantage of the salvation in Jesus and in fact that is what God wants. But most men will not.
Universalism is a heresy that all men are saved. We do not follow heresies.
You can share in that salvation by sharing in his death and resurrection.
But “you must be born again of WATER and the Holy Spirit” said Jesus[Jn 3.3]
“Repent, and each of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” was the reply of Peter in Acts 2.37That is how you join the body of Christ, the Church. When you are garbed with the robes of the Son of God and the ring of the Spirit is put on your finger your new father will no longer see your failings but will welcome you into eternity in His Son.
Rom 6.3f
“Or do you not know that all of us who have been BAPTISED INTO CHRIST JESUS have been baptised into his DEATH? Therefore we HAVE BEEN BURIED WITH HIM through baptism into DEATH, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.For as we have become united with him in the likeness to his death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness to his resurrection, knowing this that our old self WAS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, in order that our body of sin might be done away with , so that we would no longer be slaves to sin ;for he who has died is free from sin.
Now if we HAVE DIED WITH CHRIST, we believe that we shall also live with him”That is what Jesus and the apostles taught and nothing has changed. yes you can Know your salvation in Jesus.
Hi Marcel,
We have to become part of the vine even to be trimmed away. Otherwise we are weeds destined for the fire. We have to be grafted onto the natural olive tree.
We are soldiers too-see 1Cor 9.7, 2Tim2.3-4.
Hi Marcel,
The grapevine is interesting.The leaves produce sugars and they are stored in the fruit. But the whole vine is in balance with itself. The roots take up water and minerals which travel up the centre of the wood into the branches and leaves for growth. If the roots or the stem were not there no life would be possible in the branches, but if you cut off all the branches you would miss a season's crop but the vine would still live. The vine would produce more branches and more leaves and continue to thrive.There is also a sugar carrying layer just below the bark and after flowering sugars travel down this for root development. All sorts of hormones are necessary for vine behaviour and health too. The flowers self pollinate and require good conditions to produce well. The fruit is no use to the vine except as a vehicle for seeds, but serves the needs of the vinedresser.
Very complicated but a beautiful example of God's design for self replicating individual life.
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