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May I copy and paste a description of the Rapture in 1Thess.4 & 5, as commented on by “The Concordant Publishing Concern”? It is intersting reading.
THE LORD'S PRESENCE
THOSE REPOSING13 We do not sorrow when our dear ones are literally reposing. The reference is to death under a most beautiful figure for the distressed Thessalonian saints. The resurrection of Jesus is the guarantee that all who are His will likewise be raised. Until Paul received this revelation, the only resurrection of the saints was the “resurrection of life” (Jn.5:29 ) called the “former” resurrection (Un.20:5), at the beginning of the thousand years, after the judgment period. Then the Lord comes down to earth. The saints are not snatched into the air. But this resurrection follows the Lord's presence in the air long before His coming to the earth. It precedes the great judgment era which ushers in the day of Jehovah. Being justified in the blood of Christ, we shall be saved from God's indignation through Him (Rom.5:9). God has not assigned us to indignation but to the procuring of salvation (5:9). This new revelation is further unfolded to the Corinthians (lCo.15:51), where the secret is disclosed that the living, as well as the dead, will be changed. Both will be given incorruptible, spiritual, celestial bodies, without which, indeed, they could hardly meet Him in the air. The crowning glory of this blessed expectation was made known to the Philippians. These bodies of humiliation will be transfigured to conform them to that glorious body which blinded Paul when first he beheld Him (Phil.3:21; Ac.9:3,8,18) .
17 “We, the living.” Paul does not insist that he must survive to the advent, any more than he meant to assert positively that he should die when he said the Lord Jesus “shall raise us up” (2 Cor.4:14).
2 This is man's day (1Cor.4:3). It is near its end. The day of Jehovah, with its awful divine judgments, is fast approaching. It will give no notice of its coming. On the contrary, it will seem unnecessary and impossible. Is it not true that never, in the history of the race, was there such a hope and expectation of the end of war? The parliament of nations, the reduction of armaments, the federation of the world—are we not always hoping for peace and security?
I Thessalonians 5:4-28 312
THE LORD'S PRESENCE THOSE DROWSING
THOSE DROWSING4 The day of the Lord with its terrors and destruction is not for us. The cry of “peace and security” should not lull us to sleep. We should be on the alert, knowing the futility of all security and peace apart from Christ. And, though aware of the whirlpool into which this world is sweeping, we have no fear, for it will not engulf us. But, suppose that we, too, relax our vigilance and take a nap along with the rest. Will we be left for judgment? At His coming to set up the kingdom it is vital that they watch or they will lose their reward (Mt.24:42, 25:13; Mk.13:34; Lu.12:37; Un.3:3, 16:15). Not so here. Those who received Paul's gospel of faith apart from deeds, find their salvation a matter of pure unadulterated grace. This is true of the future as well as the past. The death of Christ, not our conduct, our watchfulness or the lack of it, is the foundation on which our future salvation rests just as really as the salvation which we already enjoy. This confidence will not lead to laxness.
Blessings.
To all;
The rapture and the resurrection are two distinct events. Jesus distinguishes the two.
He gives seven illustrations which depict the manner in which the Day of the Lord comes in Mathew 24:36 through 25:30. The emphasis is on unexpectedness and suddeness and what will occur to those following him.
Then he tells how the coming in glory is different which occurs after the tribulation in Mathew 25:31-46. Here, he comes in glory with the angels and all the nations are gathered before him. This is an entirely different depiction than when he comes as before the tribulation only to the believers.
Paul wrote to the Thessalonians and told of the coming in glory in chapter 4. He stated that we which are alive and “remain” will not preclude those who sleep (they will be resurrected) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Paul wrote a second epistle and told the disciples that the coming of the Lord in glory would not occur until the anti-christ is revealed first. So I Thes 4 cannot refer to the rapture but to the coming in glory immediately after the tribulation as Jesus taught.
However, this does not mean that the earth will be destroyed at this point. Revelation says we will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years on the earth. This is probably why Peter says not to be ignorant, a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. Hence, when we meet the Lord in the air, it's not because we are necessarily leaving the earth but more probable that he is coming here to rule with us.
This is the basic chain of events which all the parables refer to- (1) the sudden coming of the day of the lord in about 20 different illustrations of Christ. Incidentally, Jesus taught more about his unexpected coming than he did any other subject by far. It is the paramount truth of the gospel- to be watching and ready and doing your lord's will until he comes.
(2) He tells of great tribulation which includes the weeping and gnashing of teeth, which refers to ultimate distress eomtionally. Amos said the day of the lord is so filled with panic it's like escaping the lion only to be confronted by a bear. Amos 5:19 Jesus taught us to pray to be accounted worthy to escape this tribulation and to enter the strait gate. He warned us about this time more than any other teaching in the gospel. We have no excuse. John the Baptist asked the Pharisees when they came to see him, “Who hath warned you to flee the wrath to come.”
God does not desire that any perish, but due to their own choices they will.Paul said how shall we escape if we neglect so great of salvation. I've spoken to many ministers through the years about this and most will say “you're right brother, we need to be ready always.” However, if the truth is not preached how will the people know what is to come. Failing to warn in the face of foreseeable danger. That is negligence. Paul asks the question, “how will we escape if we neglect…” Proverbs 19:5 says he that speaks lies will not escape. There is no commandment or tradition of men that is worth going through the tribulation.
(3) Jesus comes in glory and the saints rule with him. The sheep inherit eternal life, the goats perish in a furnace of fire. He separates the tares from the wheat, separates the good fish from the bad, etc.
Steven
Hi Steve,
The first resurrection is just before the rapture surely as both are part of the saved and are going to meet with the Lord in the air.Nick;
The rapture is not the first resurrection. The first resurrection is at the last trump when every eye shall see him even the unjust. When the rapture occurs it is only for the saints to see that are ready.
Hi Steve,
1Thess 4
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So it is a matter of ORDER that those first called are raised and then those alive on earth join them.
Nick;
Paul clarifies this in his next book and says that the Lord will not appear in glory until after the tribulation as Jesus taught.
Hi Steve,
Indeed after meeting his brothers the wedding feast takes place and then he comes to the Mt of Olives with them in glory?Nick;
Upon what scriptures do you make this claim? Are you referring to the literal Mt. Olives in Israel where Jesus said it would be better for Sodom and Gommorah?
Hi Steve,
Yes, literally.Do you mean this
Mt 10
14″Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.No mention of any Mt of Olives there.
15″Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.Nick;
Jesus said this several times. Mathew 10:15, 11:23-24, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12. There are also many passages in the Old Testament that are for our learning and instruction where God compares the sin of Israel like unto that of Sodom and Gomorrah.
More importantly, when you hold to a strict natural Israel view of the prophecy of the Old Testament, you contradict what was taught by Christ and the apostles.
Paul said ye have come to Mount Zion, to an heavenly Jerusalem, an to an innumerable company of angels. Paul also said that they are not all Israel who are of Israel of the flesh. Paul has a theme that there is now no more Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus.
Jesus said that worship would no longer be in this mountain. He was talking to a woman of Samaria.
Peter taught that we the church are the house of God. We are a holy nation, a royal priesthood.
The natural Jews must be grafted in through Christ witnesses.
To hold that all natural Jews will be saved cannot be true based upon impossibility alone, most of them are dead. Jesus said when they reject him they will die in their sins.
What's coming together in Israel today is a setup for the anti-christ. Hopefully, many will be saved before he hits the stage. During the tribulation, most of the Jews will think that he is their savior and be damned under the strong delusion of physical domination of the earth. That's what they wanted the first time.
Steven
Hi Steve,
From Wikipedia
Mount ZionMount Zion (Hebrew: הר צִיּוֹן transliteration: Har Tziyyon) is the name of a hill just outside the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The term “Zion” became a synecdoche referring to the entire city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.
Important sites on Mount Zion are Dormition Abbey, King David's Tomb and the Room of the Last Supper. The Chamber of the Holocaust (Martef HaShoah), the precursor of Yad Vashem is also located on Mount Zion. Another place of interest is the Catholic cemetery where Oskar Schindler, a Righteous Gentile who saved the lives of 1,200 Jews in the Holocaust, is buried.[1]
The winding road leading up to Mount Zion is known as Pope's Way (Derekh Ha'apifyor) because it was paved in honor of the historic visit to Jerusalem of Pope Paul VI in 1964. Between 1948 and 1967, this narrow strip of land was a designated no-man's land between Israel and Jordan.[
Of course this is not the Mount of Olives
Nick;
Lets say that Jesus returns as you say to the literal Mt. of Olives, what is his purpose of returning there? Did you say he was going there to meet his brothers and sisters? Who did he say were his brothers and sisters?
Steven
Hi Steve,
No. I believe he meets his siblings in the air and they enjoy the wedding feast.
Then at the end of the tribulation they all return to earth where he begins his Reign from Jerusalem.Anyone who believes in this rapture is deceived. You are blind to the truth. There is a first resurrect of the 144,000. That is very small in comprison to the billions who have ever lived and died. These 144k meet Jesus Christ before he establishes his kingdom on this earth. The kingdom of God. Those are the blessed ones. Then there are many that will live into the new age after the final war the day Christ returns to this earth. Nobody goes to heaven. After 1000 years there is a Great Ressurection. This is where all who ever lived and died are given new healthy physical bodies and will stand in front of God for judgement. To either choose Gods way (Gods laws) or choose the second death.
Think about it?
Jesus is the only man who ever has gone to Heaven. Period.
So tell me this. How can the Bible talk about the ones that are BLESSED (meaning the 144k) yet millions of people alive today think they are going to get whisked away in some rapture.
I am sorry folks, but you have been decieved.
Hi DE,
You say
“This is where all who ever lived and died are given new healthy physical bodies and will stand in front of God for judgement”
I only see the sons of God given new bodies-1Cor 15.
Where is this written about sinners getting new tents?Anyone who believes in this rapture is deceived. You are blind to the truth. There is a first resurrect of the 144,000. That is very small in comprison to the billions who have ever lived and died. These 144k meet Jesus Christ before he establishes his kingdom on this earth. The kingdom of God. Those are the blessed ones. Then there are many that will live into the new age after the final war the day Christ returns to this earth. Nobody goes to heaven. After 1000 years there is a Great Ressurection. This is where all who ever lived and died are given new healthy physical bodies and will stand in front of God for judgement. To either choose Gods way (Gods laws) or choose the second death.
Think about it?
Jesus is the only man who ever has gone to Heaven. Period.
So tell me this. How can the Bible talk about the ones that are BLESSED (meaning the 144k) yet millions of people alive today think they are going to get whisked away in some rapture.
DE;
Jesus taught that he would come to his church unexpectedly before the tribulation and take “some” away as a theif in the night. There are seven back to back illustrations of this which are intended to depict all aspects of the commencement of the coming of the Day of the Lord. Mat. 24:36 through Mat. 25:30 Those who are not worthy to escape, go throught the tribulation where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Then the lord comes in glory with all the angels with him after the tribulation where his kingdom will reign 1000 years.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 22 2008,07:43) Jesus taught that he would come to his church unexpectedly before the tribulation and take “some” away as a theif in the night.
I still disagree with you.However as you stated… if “some” were taken away, then why is it that millions upon millions “think” they will be in this rapture? Millions are not some.
rapture = ridiculous
All of you that think you are going to be whisked away will either A. die during the great tribulation and you will be resurrected at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ and his appointed government or B. live through the great tribulation into the new age.
Honestly, where are you getting whisked away to? Heaven?
Jesus was the ONLY man to have ever gone to Heaven.
Have a good day
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