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All the dead are in hades. They are conscious, ALIVE! This is Christian Orthodoxy from the beginning. Every Christian (except for a few gnostics) believed this for hundreds of years after the apostles.
The Righteous are in Paradise or Abraham's Bosom and the Sinners are in Hades were the heat from the nearby Lake of Fire (that nobody has been tossed into yet) is a constant reminder of their future.
The righteous will rise at the last trump to join the Returning King.
The arguements about the state of the dead are usually;
They are soul sleeping and unconscious or they are in heaven.
It is not an either or between them, they don't understand they are both right and they are both wrong.
The truth is the dead are conscious and they are not in heaven. The rightessous will rise at the last trump and we will all have physical glorious inccoruptable bodies. The unrighteouss will rise from hades during the second ressurrection and the white throne judgement.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2007,23:22) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 03 2007,22:28) 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. When will the rapture occur? “….at the last trump…”
Rev 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then is finished the mystery of God, according to the good tidings which he declared to his servants the prophets.
The angel is about to sound, he hasn't sounded the trumpet yet, then is finished the mystery of God.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Mat 24:29 But immediately “after” the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and ” the dead in Christ shall rise first;
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.The dead in Christ and the ones alive “shall together” with them (the dead in Christ) be caught up…..
When? At the last trump!
Amen. This is the way I understand it as well.
However:My understanding is that the church will be raptured 45 days after the onset of the the great tribulation.
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (Dan.12:11) (This is the onset of the great tribulation, 15:21)
“Blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days”. (45 days from the time that the Abomination of desolation and the onset of the great tribulation). (Dan. 12:12)
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. AND EXCEPT THOSE DAYS SHOULD BE SHORTENED, THERE SHOULD NO FLESH BE SAVED: BUT FOR THE ELECT's SAKE THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED”. (Matt. 24:21-22)
After the church is caught up to be with the Lord, those remaining alive on the earth will be judged by the seven last plagues. These will have worshiped the Anti-Christ. (Rev. 16)
God Bless
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:09) All the dead are in hades. They are conscious, ALIVE! This is Christian Orthodoxy from the beginning. Every Christian (except for a few gnostics) believed this for hundreds of years after the apostles. The Righteous are in Paradise or Abraham's Bosom and the Sinners are in Hades were the heat from the nearby Lake of Fire (that nobody has been tossed into yet) is a constant reminder of their future.
The righteous will rise at the last trump to join the Returning King.
The arguements about the state of the dead are usually;
They are soul sleeping and unconscious or they are in heaven.
It is not an either or between them, they don't understand they are both right and they are both wrong.
The truth is the dead are conscious and they are not in heaven. The rightessous will rise at the last trump and we will all have physical glorious inccoruptable bodies. The unrighteouss will rise from hades during the second ressurrection and the white throne judgement.
Hi MS,
Christ could not be held in Hades and he was given the keys to death and Hades and those gates neither could prevail against those in Christ also given the keys. They go to the mansions Christ prepared for the living as Stephen understood when he called out to Christ at death, living stones in the new Jerusalem.Err this is a topic I would have to leave with you men. LOL Im sorry but Revelations just beats the confusion out of me. I am studying online though hoping that might help me a bit. However, right now I think I better stay out of it hehe
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,09:49) Err this is a topic I would have to leave with you men. LOL Im sorry but Revelations just beats the confusion out of me. I am studying online though hoping that might help me a bit. However, right now I think I better stay out of it hehe Hugs
Phoenix
Just know Jesus is coming back.
Hey Nick
Could you please tell me where in the book of Daniels that it says there is going to be 7 years tribulation?
Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
My pleasure
Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. “Hi Nick
Well what I understood Daniel saying in verse 27 was the time Jesus put an end to sacrifice and offering.
Hugs
PhoenixHi p,
Dan 9
” 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
The prince that shall come is not Messiah the Prince, who shall be cut off.
ps This is the YLT version.
“26And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations. “Hi P,
2Thess 2
” 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: “
Is the cutting off of the Messiah another way of saying the rapture-the body of Christ taken up and rejoined with the head?Hi Nick
Be back later LOL this is why I hate KJV i have to read it like 10-20 times to understand it. bleh
Hugs
PhoenixHi Nick
Oh so youre saying you dont believe in the Rapture? Sorry if I misunderstood that.
Hugs
Phoenix
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