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typ, did you really die when you got baptised? Honestly, didn't you just get wet? I am not mocking water baptism for it is done in obedience to God, therefore counted as righteousness. But the truth of the matter is that one doesn't actually die when they get baptised in water. The actual death experience comes later at the crossing of the Jordan as shown in the Feast of Tabernacles.
When you are born again you have received Christ.
When you are baptised in the Holy Spirit you receive the Holy Spirit
When you die and are ressurected into the promised Land you meet the Father.Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 18 2006,15:26) Let me weigh in here….. The Bible clearly teaches that Christ's return will catch people unawares. In other words it will be a surprise event. How is Christ's return going to be a surprise event when we are in tribulation for seven years? I mean just start counting down for 7 years to his return from then!
Kenrch you wrote:
Ty,
“So you agree that the rapture will not take place until “after” the tribulation? At the last trump the dead will rise? I thought you go to heaven when you die. Or is it just the bodies that rise at the last trump? Rev. 6:9-11If the dead don't rise until the last trump, then how were those raised in Matt when our Lord died? God is no respecter of persons. “
Remember Paul blasted Hymeneus and Philetus who SWERVE AS TO TRUTH, because they were saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some” (II Tim. 2:18)
However, Jesus as well as Elijah and Elisha did resurrect several individuals. Elisha's bones even resurrected a dead man who was hurriedly thrown into his grave! However after the earthquake in Matthew 27:51-53, it appears that MANY of the saints experienced a resurrection like
Lazarus. However, these people DIED again later. They went into the Holy City, (Jerusalem), not Heaven and appeared to many but all of them eventually died again. Nothing in the scriptures indicates they were raised in incorruptable bodies which would never die again. Thus this could not be THE final resurrection.Now the question is, are all still waiting in death as the scriptures suggest in 1Thessalonians 4:16, so that the “Dead in Christ will rise first”? I think this is just the case. Those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them. So this is telling me all the saints are still sleeping in death awaiting Christ's return when THE great resurrection of all will occur.
Paul spoke of the mystery that all will not fall asleep in death but be changed in the twinkling of an eye. { 1 Corn 15:51-53 }
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep but will all be changed- 52 in a flash in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET.
Last trumpet? Well the last trumpet sounds like the blast that will announce Christ's second coming. So this makes sense. I think of if Kenrch, as us falling asleep in death which is much deeper than any natural sleep. When you are sleeping you don't know if you've slept 5 minutes of 5 hours! So the next thing you know, you are waking up to a horn blast, ascending to heaven to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. It would be as if you never died, really. It will be that fast.
Notice too all these people who claim to have had near death or after life experiences never mention a scenario like the Bible describes. The Bible says “it is appointed once for man to die”, so that is GOING to happen unless we are alive still when Christ returns. Otherwise there would be no need for the “dead” in Christ to arise when he returns.
Am I making any sense?
Bless you bro's! Back to seminary studies. Now we're covering Church Administration. What a snooze-fest!
Semmy
Thanks for your post Semmy.Food for thought.
The Bible says Mat 25:13 Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of Man comes.
So it's reasonable I think that we can know roughly the year, or perhaps even the season? The Bible says that we should see the signs of the times.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2005,00:44) Hi,
As t8 as suggested it would be a good idea to learn more about this event. Of course the word 'Rapture' does not appear in scripture but it is applied to an event that is clearly shown in the New Testament.
eg 1 Cor 15.52f
1 Thess 4.13f
Jn 11.25-6
Who can add?
ohhh… I see…. its just fine to believe in the rapture even though the word doesn't appear in the Scirptures…. but woe to anyone who believes in the Trinity even though the word doesn't appear in Scripture!!! sheesh… hypocrites…Hi E,
The rapture is not called by that name but is described without a name in 1Cor 15, 1 Thess and Jn 5-6 etc.
Now three gods in one should be able to reach this standard you have offered so we await with bated breath you scriptural verses about this new teaching..Hi,
Is this verse in Jn 11 relating to the tribulation?9Jesus answered, “(L)Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.
10″But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”
There are 24hrs in a day, approximately half daytime and half night.
If the rapture was mid tribulation ;
Those taken would not be left walking in the dark but those left behind would have no light as the Spirit would be taken with the sons of God?
Those taken would not never die
Jn 11 again
“26and everyone who lives and believes in Me (AD)will never die”1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When will the rapture occur? “….at the last trump…”
Rev 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then is finished the mystery of God, according to the good tidings which he declared to his servants the prophets.
The angel is about to sound, he hasn't sounded the trumpet yet, then is finished the mystery of God.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Mat 24:29 But immediately “after” the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and ” the dead in Christ shall rise first;
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.The dead in Christ and the ones alive “shall together” with them (the dead in Christ) be caught up…..
When? At the last trump!Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 03 2007,22:28) 1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. When will the rapture occur? “….at the last trump…”
Rev 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then is finished the mystery of God, according to the good tidings which he declared to his servants the prophets.
The angel is about to sound, he hasn't sounded the trumpet yet, then is finished the mystery of God.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Mat 24:29 But immediately “after” the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and ” the dead in Christ shall rise first;
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.The dead in Christ and the ones alive “shall together” with them (the dead in Christ) be caught up…..
When? At the last trump!
Amen. This is the way I understand it as well.1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This is not an DAY event? SORRY YOU ARE GIVEN A LIFE TO EXCUTE THE POWER OF DEATH. EACH PERSON MUST FOLLOW INSTRUTIONS
1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Voice as of trumpet ?
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
We have a body already that is to be transformed into the incorruptible
So it is not wise to expect that your body shall rise incorruptible from a grave site, if you do not put on incorruption by taking part in the first resurrection, by seeing corruption once past; that then you shall not see a second death which is the lake of fire, in which no body shall returnThe rapture is raising flesh bodies only
They wait only for a body return for them
But for this to be in line with their bodies to rise they shall need to that body to be die again
Isa 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
But behold I am with you, he knocks at the door, and if we shall open he shall come in
1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and ” the dead in Christ shall rise first;
then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.the dead in Christ shall rise first;
Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Deu 32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
Hi charity.
1Cor 15
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Ps 49
' 6They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;7None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:)
9That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.
10For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.
11Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names.
12Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
13This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. “
In the first resurrection the incorruptible body is first given to the souls raised and then put over those yet alive.
Hi Nick
Luk 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God *s come nigh unto you.*
Luk 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.32:32 For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Deu 32:34 ¶ [Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures?
Deu 32:35 To me [belongeth] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.Jud 1:12 ¶ These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit,*twice dead,*plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.Hi charity,
What with the judgment and condemnation?Jn 5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.Rom 8
” 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'
1Jn 5
” 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. “
Hi Nick
Fear God judgment proceeds with already having closed ears for some
that they cannot even conceive truthSeed that has the truth stolen away the moment it comes
One may consider when was he she condemned to this deafness? What did they do to enter this life condemned to slumber
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.Hi charity,
The birds are stuffed full of seeds with no roots. Now they perch in the trees awaiting the feast.Hi Nick
Trumpet blown;
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14 Who knoweth [if] he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; [even] a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?Joe 2:15 ¶ Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
BATTLE OR RAPTURE TOWARDS INCORRUTION?
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