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hi katjo
if you are sereous to want in your heart to learn Gods word,i can tell you this If you read the bible books like the new testament,
the book of isaia,spalm,proverb, Job, dont read revelation yet,but read those books a leased three times not in that order any way you want to,I am sure you will learn more than any of the books you intend to buy.i knowQuote (georg @ Sep. 28 2009,01:13) Quote (katjo @ Sep. 20 2009,00:26) Tim, of course he is with believers now in spirit, the holy spirit lives in us, and you know he is there, BUT Jesus is returning in the flesh, the bible tells us that, and every eye will see him.
katjoIf you believe Jesus will return in the flesh, read my post on the ransom, besides check out what Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:16.
Georg
Ps, you find my post in “Scripture & Biblical Prophecy”.
Hi Georg,Where is your post on “the ransom”?
Ed J
The Ransom
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 902
Joined: Sep. 2009 Posted: Sep. 26 2009,06:34——————————————————————————–
From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
What is a ransom?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come, John 8:14.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, Ps. 16:10. for obvious reasons.
So in what way does the ransom effect all of us?
When Jesus took on himself the sins of Adam, he also removed the curse of death from all of us, that guarantees all of us a resurrection (1 Cor. 15:22). It is only after our resurrection, and only after we except Jesus as our savior, can he become our ransom and take away our sins, and in tern God will give us the gift of eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
So Paul is correct in saying, “he gave himself a ransom for all”, that he did, but the fact that not all will except his ransom Jesus is right in saying, “he came to ransom many”Georg
Georg,
I am sure there are many many people that believe this, the way you said it my brother, but it is far from the truth.
MAT 20:28 † Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
ACTS 2:21 † And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Here is the ALL of 1 Tim 2, whosoever will….
REVELATION 17:8
» 8 † The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
REV 20:15 † And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The book of life had been written since the the beginning of the world and all those not in it are lost.So all people will not be saved, only those whose names are written in the book of life. The rest will be lost…
God Bless
MarlinMarlin1
I'm beginning to believe you read the Bible either backwards, or upside down.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Remember these scriptures; Christ died to save the world, but obviously not every body will be saved, the reasons are many. But what about those that never heard the name Jesus; did you know Paul was wondering about that too?
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
The books will be written during the millennium, and it is during that time your progress will be written in your book; that will determine whether your name will go into the book of life.
I would give you scriptures, but since you ignore them anyway, I dispense of it.
Ps, I would not tell some one else he is FAR from the truth, when you your self have no understanding.
Georg
Georg,
God said the books have already been written and you say they will be written.
ROM 3:4 † God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.I want you to know that I read every scripture that you write. I truly try to see where you are coming from. Can you say the same.
I believe that most people on this site are looking for a closer walk with God, I am. All scripture has to be in agreement and it seems to me that you pick and choose and even change or throw out scripture, because you don't understand how it can be. There are lots of scripture that we cannot explain, but we don't want to put our own interpretation to it.
I tell you the truth, I enjoy reading your posts, because it makes me dig deeper into the bible.
For this I thank you.God Bless
MarlinQuote (banana @ Dec. 09 2009,18:56) Ed J The Ransom
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 902
Joined: Sep. 2009 Posted: Sep. 26 2009,06:34——————————————————————————–
From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
What is a ransom?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come, John 8:14.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, Ps. 16:10. for obvious reasons.
So in what way does the ransom effect all of us?
When Jesus took on himself the sins of Adam, he also removed the curse of death from all of us, that guarantees all of us a resurrection (1 Cor. 15:22). It is only after our resurrection, and only after we except Jesus as our savior, can he become our ransom and take away our sins, and in tern God will give us the gift of eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
So Paul is correct in saying, “he gave himself a ransom for all”, that he did, but the fact that not all will except his ransom Jesus is right in saying, “he came to ransom many”Georg
Hi Georg,Thank you for digging up this post for me!
And also thank you for your overview on the matter.
But please let me add a bit to what you have said regarding this.Science says that the blood in the fetus comes from the father,
and the bible says that the life is in the blood. (Leviticus 17:11)
Therefore, since we KNOW that the “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father …God blood(74) = Jesus(74) … (Matt.1:18,20 / Luke 1:35)
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I(the HolySpirit) have given it to you upon the altar
to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the [God blood] that maketh an atonement for the soul.Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock,
over the which the HolySpirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he(the HolySpirit)
hath purchased with his own blood.
2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses
unto them; and hath committed unto us “The word” of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMarlion1
“””and it seems to me that you pick and choose and even change or throw out scripture, because you don't understand how it can be.”””
This is a quote from you, I wish you show me where I did that!
Georg
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,12:45) Quote (banana @ Dec. 09 2009,18:56) Ed J The Ransom
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 902
Joined: Sep. 2009 Posted: Sep. 26 2009,06:34——————————————————————————–
From what I have heard, and from what I have read here on the forum, there seems to be a great misunderstanding of Jesus’ ransom.
How does Jesus ransom effect us?
Why did Jesus say;” he came to ransom many?” (Math. 20:28), and Paul says :” he gave himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim. 2:6), is Paul contradicting Jesus?
What is a ransom?
A ransom is an exchange of something, for something. You want something I have, you have to give me something I consider equal in value.
Paul explains; “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that is permanent death not just dying and then living again.
What is sin? “Sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), or command.
Adam was told not to eat of that one tree, or he would die. Adam disobeyed and ate of the fruit, the fact that he did not die immediately shows it was not the fruit that caused his death, it was sin, his disobedience to God. His death would have been permanently if it hadn’t been for Jesus who became his ransom.
Why could no other human be Adams ransom? Two main reason;
One; who ever would have become his ransom would than have to remain in the grave since he would have taken on Adams sins.
Two; when Adam sinned God cursed him and all his posterity, we were all doomed to die before we were born, before we committed any sin. Although we all have sinned and deserve death, we do not now die for our sins, Paul says, “as in Adam all die” (1 Cor. 15:22).
How then could Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
Adam was human by nature, Jesus was spirit by nature, and not effected by the curse of death. In order for Jesus to become Adam’s ransom he had to become one of us, human. God took away his spirit nature, and gave him a human nature (Heb. 2:16), a human body of flesh and blood; although his mind remained the same because, he knew who he was, where he came from, and why he had come, John 8:14.
So how did Jesus become Adam’s ransom?
When Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sins of Adam. Jesus took the sins of Adam and placed them on himself, that freed Adam from the permanent penalty of death, because the body of Jesus took on all of his sins. I emphasize body because his mind/spirit remained without sin. When God resurrected Jesus, it was not his flesh and blood body that was raised, God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature. The human body of Jesus, laden with sin, had to remain in the grave, that is how he ransomed Adam, his body for Adams. Jesus human body did his purpose, it was no longer needed, and God disposed of it, Ps. 16:10. for obvious reasons.
So in what way does the ransom effect all of us?
When Jesus took on himself the sins of Adam, he also removed the curse of death from all of us, that guarantees all of us a resurrection (1 Cor. 15:22). It is only after our resurrection, and only after we except Jesus as our savior, can he become our ransom and take away our sins, and in tern God will give us the gift of eternal life (Rom. 6:23).
So Paul is correct in saying, “he gave himself a ransom for all”, that he did, but the fact that not all will except his ransom Jesus is right in saying, “he came to ransom many”Georg
Hi Georg,Thank you for digging up this post for me!
And also thank you for your overview on the matter.
But please let me add a bit to what you have said regarding this.Science says that the blood in the fetus comes from the father,
and the bible says that the life is in the blood. (Leviticus 17:11)
Therefore, since we KNOW that the “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father …God blood(74) = Jesus(74) … (Matt.1:18,20 / Luke 1:35)
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I(the HolySpirit) have given it to you upon the altar
to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the [God blood] that maketh an atonement for the soul.Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock,
over the which the HolySpirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he(the HolySpirit)
hath purchased with his own blood.
2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses
unto them; and hath committed unto us “The word” of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi EdOK, so what are you asking, or telling me?
Skip the numbers, they're only confusing.
Georg
Hi Georg,
The reason Jesus' blood is able to remove sin. I'm surprised you didn't know?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,20:39) Hi Georg, The reason Jesus' blood is able to remove sin. I'm surprised you didn't know?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What are you talking about; are you still playing games?Georg
Quote Marlin said,and it seems to me that you pick and choose and even change or throw out scripture, because you don't understand how it can be. Quote Georg said,This is a quote from you, I wish you show me where I did that! Here is one of your quotes Georg,
Quote The books will be written during the millennium, and it is during that time your progress will be written in your book; that will determine whether your name will go into the book of life. Here is the scripture,
Quote REV 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,
The book of life has already been written….God Bless
MarlinMarlin1
And here is the answer to that.
The beast that came out of the bottomless pit was the “LEAGUE OF NATION”, 1918.
When it went into perdition, destruction 1946, the persecution of the saints had been over for a 100 years. The saints are the only once whose names are in the book of life, they stood the test of faith.
They were predestined to be called from before the foundation of the world.Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Now consider all the people that have lived and died from just the Roman empire going back; how many do you think heard the name JESUS?
Did not Jesus die for them too?
Ever wonder why Paul ask this question?
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
When do you think they will be taught? if not during the millennium, then when?
Rev 5:10 And hast made us (the saints) unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Who will Jesus and the saints reign over, if not all the once being resurrected?
That will be the time Peter was referring to when he said this.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
I wish you would take your time when reading this, meditate on it for a while.
Georg
Brother Georg,
The scriptures that you use are very true, as I told you before, your timing is all wrong.
I have showed you scripture that proves you doctrine is wrong, but you choose man's word over God's.
This Seventh-day Adventist doctrine has been proved to be false, alone with your prophetess.You choose to keep it of your own free will and as long as you do, God can do nothing about it.
God Bless
MarlinQuote (Pastry @ Dec. 25 2011,00:20) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,20:39) Hi Georg, The reason Jesus' blood is able to remove sin. I'm surprised you didn't know?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What are you talking about; are you still playing games?Georg
Hi Georg, what games?Jesus' blood did not come from Adam, I thought you knew that; but perhaps you didn't?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 26 2011,02:34) Brother Georg, The scriptures that you use are very true, as I told you before, your timing is all wrong.
I have showed you scripture that proves you doctrine is wrong, but you choose man's word over God's.
This Seventh-day Adventist doctrine has been proved to be false, alone with your prophetess.You choose to keep it of your own free will and as long as you do, God can do nothing about it.
God Bless
Marlin
MarlinYou are not the only one that rejects scripture as truth here on H.N.
I have always wondered about that.Georg
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,04:55) Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 25 2011,00:20) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,20:39) Hi Georg, The reason Jesus' blood is able to remove sin. I'm surprised you didn't know?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What are you talking about; are you still playing games?Georg
Hi Georg, what games?Jesus' blood did not come from Adam, I thought you knew that; but perhaps you didn't?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Who was talking about Jesus, Adam, and blood?Georg
??
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