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There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,14:25) There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
Greetings E…… This whole rapture phenomonon has its roots in serious misinterpretation of the scriptures,specifically the gathering of the first friuts….of whom I believe will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:….these folks will constitute the dead in christ that were raised and those whom God has granted inmortality in a twinkling of an eye….Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,14:25) There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
evehThe last trump, as are the other six, are symbolic; no human ear will hear them.
Neither will any human eye see Jesus Christ, he will come in a cloud, what does that mean, and why? Jesus is a divine, glorified spirit being, his countenance is as bright as the sun in full strength, if you would look at him it would blind you, ask Paul.Georg
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 27 2009,04:44) Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,14:25) There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
Greetings E…… This whole rapture phenomonon has its roots in serious misinterpretation of the scriptures,specifically the gathering of the first friuts….of whom I believe will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:….these folks will constitute the dead in christ that were raised and those whom God has granted inmortality in a twinkling of an eye….
theoderejThose that will be changed into spirit beings in a twinkling of an eye, are those saints that will die after the first resurrection has taken place; they will have to spend no time in their grave waiting.
But you are right, the rapture is fiction.Georg
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:32) What is a rapture? I don't remember reading about that in the Bible. Is it a movie or something?
davidNo, but left behind is a movie.
Georg
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:32) What is a rapture? I don't remember reading about that in the Bible. Is it a movie or something?
You know, every time someone uses the term rapture, the cynical side of me pipes up and says “I wonder if delirium from hunger would count.”Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 30 2009,09:28) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 27 2009,04:44) Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,14:25) There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
Greetings E…… This whole rapture phenomonon has its roots in serious misinterpretation of the scriptures,specifically the gathering of the first friuts….of whom I believe will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:….these folks will constitute the dead in christ that were raised and those whom God has granted inmortality in a twinkling of an eye….
theoderejThose that will be changed into spirit beings in a twinkling of an eye, are those saints that will die after the first resurrection has taken place; they will have to spend no time in their grave waiting.
But you are right, the rapture is fiction.Georg
No….They will be the ones who were blessed and choosen and did not experience death….They will be a part of the 144000….theodorej
The 144000 are only from the 12 tribes of Israel, the number of the rest of the saints is much larger, Rev. 7:9.
Georg
Rev 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.So we clearly see that when Jesus returns he will raise up the people that had been behaded and the rest not until later. A rapture makes no sense given this. Christ will be on earth! We will be with him if we have lost our heads. Any takers?
jeff
Nick,
it sure seems that way by what is said. It says THEY referring to those that got beheaded.
However I assume it matters on your eschatology. It is possible the “mark” is already here and we are not aware. Many believe it was nero and there is strong evidence to the possibility. If so, then the “beheaded” or those killed for christ could incude all the martyers over the years. But it does appear that the martyrs are the ones rewarded with this, not everyone else.
When you see the Guilitine rides being offered at your local amusement parks, jump on!! At least when your heads gone, you wont have to worry about over thinking things! 😉
jeff
Quote (wisslewj @ Sep. 07 2009,18:56) Nick, it sure seems that way by what is said. It says THEY referring to those that got beheaded.
However I assume it matters on your eschatology. It is possible the “mark” is already here and we are not aware. Many believe it was nero and there is strong evidence to the possibility. If so, then the “beheaded” or those killed for christ could incude all the martyers over the years. But it does appear that the martyrs are the ones rewarded with this, not everyone else.
When you see the Guilitine rides being offered at your local amusement parks, jump on!! At least when your heads gone, you wont have to worry about over thinking things! 😉
jeff
Greetings W…… The mark on the forehead could conceivably be simbolic of a mindset or a belief system (eg.sunday worship,easter,christmas and veneration of saints)that is imbedded through ritual and dogma….The mark on the hand could conceivably be simbolic of a restriction of access to trade or work unless there is complience to a universal form of organized religion…TheodoreJ,
I lean to this as well. It says that the AC will seek to change dates and times etc. I believe the Catholic Church has done this. Our day of worshiphas changed, our declaration of jesus has changed, we worship 3 gods, pray to the dead (which is basically a form of necromancy) etc.
The simple statement of faith which is that Jesus is Lord is lost. (Now to be fair we could argue that that means Jesus is YHVH and it would be worth really digging into that since the OT scrips says that as well but thats another topic.)
My thought is that if ya see the giant blade, run to it and not away. Proclaim jesus the whole way there!
Jeff
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 30 2009,11:03) Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:32) What is a rapture? I don't remember reading about that in the Bible. Is it a movie or something?
You know, every time someone uses the term rapture, the cynical side of me pipes up and says “I wonder if delirium from hunger would count.”
No, just ignorance of the truth.Georg
Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 30 2009,11:13) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 30 2009,09:28) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 27 2009,04:44) Quote (eveh @ Aug. 26 2009,14:25) There is not going to be any “secret” rapture. When he comes for his children, every eye will see him,,,,, at the last trump….AT THE LAST TRUMP…. read it.
Greetings E…… This whole rapture phenomonon has its roots in serious misinterpretation of the scriptures,specifically the gathering of the first friuts….of whom I believe will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:….these folks will constitute the dead in christ that were raised and those whom God has granted inmortality in a twinkling of an eye….
theoderejThose that will be changed into spirit beings in a twinkling of an eye, are those saints that will die after the first resurrection has taken place; they will have to spend no time in their grave waiting.
But you are right, the rapture is fiction.Georg
No….They will be the ones who were blessed and choosen and did not experience death….They will be a part of the 144000….
All man will experience death, especially the saints, the 144000 included, Ps. 116:15, 1 Cor. 15:22, Heb. 9:27.Georg
Quote (wisslewj @ Sep. 07 2009,13:24) Rev 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.So we clearly see that when Jesus returns he will raise up the people that had been behaded and the rest not until later. A rapture makes no sense given this. Christ will be on earth! We will be with him if we have lost our heads. Any takers?
jeff
Jeff“Beheaded”, is just a term used to say, they died for Jesus, although there were undoubtedly some that were beheaded.
When Jesus begins his reign here on earth, “all” the saints will already be with him. It is during his 1000 year reign when all the other dead will be resurrected, 1 Cor. 15:22,23.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,13:28) Hi Jeff,
Do you think it was exclusive of all others who have died in Christ?
Tho die “in” Christ, is not the same as to die “for” Christ.Georg
Day of the Lord is Gods wrath. I have a very intresting book on Rev. we got from our church. We have two pastor's in our area who have their own churchs and host a christian radio station. They have got together and wrote a book on Rev.Im going to skip to the middle of the book (even tho it would be better to read from beginning)and let you see the explanation they give.It quotes: John 6:38-39, John 6:44 and John 6:54 than it quotes: all these scripts speak of believers being raised at the last day. This is the last day of human goverment, and the first day of Gods goverment on earth. there are two specific resurrections spoken of in Rev. 1).the first resurrection 2. The resurrection at the Great White Throne Judgment, this resurrection occurs after the Millennium.(is discussed later on in the book) Than it quotes Rev 20:4-5 if you want to read. Scripture shows the ones who make the first resurrection are Those beheaded for the witness of Christ(does not mean every christian will be beheaded)@ Those who did not love their lives into death 3. those who did not receive the mark of the beast 4. those who did not worship the beast. This description given is clearly saints who endured, or were martyred, during the great tribulation. On other words, the first resurrection occurs atfter satans wrath, which includes the mark of the beast.This lines up with all the scripts we have studied.(I didnt go back threw and get them all) Those who make the first rsurrection are the ones who rule and reign with Christ 1000 yrs. The rest of the dead do not rise until after 1000- year reign of Christ is fulfilled. At the end of the 1000 years we see the Great white Throne Judgment. At that time if a persons name is not found in the book of life they are cast into the lake of fire.. Consider this: If the rapture took place befor the antiChrist is revealed, then Rev. 20;4-5 would not make any sense. In other words it would have to be called the second resurrection. what we have learned is that the rapture occurs at the last trumpet, which is after the “tribulation of those days”. There are only two resurrections spoken of in the bible, we have learned that the gathering of the Saints occurs after the antichrist is revealed.In order to make any other case we would have to take scripts. out of context. It goes on to say that -we realize this is not popular teaching, Yes, we would all love for the rapture to occur befor Satans wrath, However we must except what scripture tells us and not what our flesh desires. God will give His children strength in these times the same as he did in the early church. we have the same holy spirit that allowed the apostles and early disciples to operate in wisdom and power as they lived under an oppressive Roman goverment. God has not given us a spirit of fear but has not sugarcoated what lies ahead on the worlds stage. he reveals these events for a reason so we can be ready to do His will, and have impact on the harvest of souls. I will add more later!
To all: The one thing I have noticed in my Bible study is that a person can make the Bible say anything they want it to say! If you include the old testament and care not for context and never allow for spiritual interpretation you can make God a killer, promote multiple wives, justify murder and mahem, stealing goods, lands, women. You can believe and become whatever you choose to believe about the Bible! I know people don't want to see it this way but if you are honest that is often the way it is being interpreted. How you perceive God in your heart from previous information accepted from various people, churches, preachers etc., is how you will tend to look for and find as your truth while the reading the Bible. If your basis of beliefs within you is fear based knowledge(wars, tribulation) you tend to find destruction, wrath, tribulation etc.! If your beliefs are based in Jesus and the love & peace he taught to believers, about a God of Love you will find youself and all other believers of the love outside of the wrath, tribulation and destruction.The fruit or byproduct of the Spirit of God is peace, love, joy etc.! Those on the outside through deception will suffer their own tribulation and wrath. First one must believe that Jesus is here, now! You must believe that Christ is here now, within us and without us. One must believe God is here within and without, everywhere. Then you could see more clearly that there is no comming and going of Christ other than the beliefs of the mind. God is everywhere, where would he go? If God is everywhere he was in you before you became aware that he was there! If a person believes there are three, Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit or he believes they are ONE spirit, different aspects, it matters not, they have made their abode(home) in us. When a person accepts a part of the Truth(in his mind) he becomes united/one with that truth. The Truth comes to your mind/heart. Jesus comes to your mind/heart. God comes to your mind/heart, all through the Truth that enlightens a persons awareness that they have always been there we just didn't perceive that Truth. It is an unveiling of Truth that has always been. If people keep looking for Jesus to return in a physical body they can't possibly see that he is here and that he is in your brothers and sisters. If you don't believe that Christ is here, in you then that would be anti-Christ! Before Jesus left physicality he said, it is finished. The work of God to reveal the Truth was finished. What else more would he do? Armageddon is a war of Truth in the minds of mankind. This is the tribulation a person must go through to find Truth of God. Lies and deception against the Truth like doctrines of physical wars and looking for raptures are the tests of faith in the mind we must overcome. When you read the word devil always interpret it by definition, lies or lier, or deception against the Truth. Your war and tribulation is against lies and deceptions to gain the Truth of God. God bless all, TK
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